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Post by Giller on Aug 25, 2019 15:44:28 GMT -5
This is something David Wilkerson said in the 1970 s, concerning the ecumenical church, it is 2 minutes and 52 seconds long.
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Post by Giller on Aug 25, 2019 15:46:54 GMT -5
Feel free to comment, and I might mention other things, of this nature.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 25, 2019 17:21:30 GMT -5
Yep he is spot on. These people have control of all the major conferences, denominations, and colleges. They have young upcoming pastors eating out of their hands. They completely control the narrative in the main stream church, and the squash opposition.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 25, 2019 18:12:58 GMT -5
EXACTLY MAN . and what will they end up doing , PERSECUTING , PERSECUTING all who don't conform . THIS IS EXACTLY what the SPIRIT HAS BEEN LONG TELLING ME . By grace even as a wee babe , WHEN I spotted this , I WAS STRONGLY UNCTIONED THIS . THIS IS , THIS IS what will lead all RIGHT TO THE BEAST to total submission under it , to ANTI CHRIST itself . I have been uctioned HUGE we will be seen as nothing but haters of humanity , haters of even god , for all will merge in at least the concept ideal that we are serving the same god . TRUE LAMBS WILL BE HATED BIG TIME . Wilkerson was hearing from the SPIRIT . AND HOW this has advanced . LOOK how fast its really increased in just the last ten to five years . And notice the POPE is a HUGE POLICITICAL MOUTHPIECE FOR .................A ONE WORLD GOVT , HE has even said RFID , chip etc IS A GFIT FROM GOD . I know some folks thought ol frienduff has been off his rocker due to how much I warn out against this stuff . BUT they have BEEN BUSY BIG TIME . AND I guarantee in one form or another these concepts are now in about almost EVERY MAIN LINE CHURCH . WE REALLY ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME . That unction does not fade nor wane . AND OUR BETRYAL IS COMING SOONER than most realize .
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2019 19:25:20 GMT -5
David Wilkerson was obviously right about this. Many things he spoke of, I think he thought were going to happen before they have, but we are seeing them come to pass now. There is no question that we are seeing the formation of this one world religious system, and we are among a small group of resistance and non-conformists. I am so thankful that this group is not part of that mess, and can see the truth about what is really going on. It is very deceptive. It is only by the grace of God we know better.
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Post by Giller on Aug 25, 2019 19:52:22 GMT -5
Here are a few things mentioned in Gary Wilkerson's book on his dad, David.
(The cross, the switchblade, and the man who believed, David Wilkerson: by Gary Wilkerson with R.S.B Sawyer)
((page 138)"David Wilkerson had a an incredible influence in those years," says historian Vinson Synan. "He was a prophet to his generation in planting seeds for the great renewal among hippies and the downtrodden....
...I think he helped start the Jesus movement. Then he had a role in the Charismatic Renewal in all the churches and among Catholics."
Dad's work had crossed denominational lines in ways he couldn't have foreseen. The Cross and the Switchblade book was seminal in the growth of the Catholic charismatic movement. Historians and writers point to a specific event that sparked the great renewal.
In 1967 an informal gathering took place in Pittsburgh that became known as "the Duquesne Weekend." A group of students at that Catholic university convened at a place called the Ark of the Dove Retreat house to explore the growing charismatic phenomenon. The reading list for the weekend consisted of the Cross and the Switchblade, John Sherrill's seminal book They Speak with Other Tongues, and the first four chapters of the book of Acts. That weekend event effectively launched the Catholic charismatic movement. Students and university leaders were baptized in the Holy Spirit, a phenomenon that quickly spread through Catholic congregations....")
Now this is what Gary mentions in his book, through mentioning what historians say.
Why did Gary mention this thing that associates what happened with his dad's experience with a move of God, with the charismatic Catholic movement? I do not fully know, but it makes me question things.
Yes I truly believe that David Wilkerson did experience a genuine move of God which spread, but concerning the charismatic Catholic movement, I really have to question that particular movement, for the baptism of the Holy Ghost is not just for anyone, but rather for believers, as we see in the bible, unbelievers cannot experience the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Now could there have been some among them who had truly receive the Lord and got saved but just did not come out of the Catholic church yet?
That is possible, but in the overall, I personally do not bear witness that the charismatic Catholic movement was of God, for most did not come out of the Catholic church, it did not lead to some big change, and into the coming out of this false church.
It may have been a counter attack, against the then genuine move of God that David Wilkerson was experiencing.
And David, in the early 70 s seemed to be uneasy about this, which we will see in our next quote:
(The cross, the switchblade, and the man who believed, David Wilkerson: by Gary Wilkerson with R.S.B Sawyer)
((page 139)"After a while, it wasn't unusual for us to have a contingent of nuns and priests on our local crusade boards," says David Patterson. "Brother Dave's ministry was breaking loose all these things. At times it seemed to me he was uneasy with it. He thought, "I did not know all this was going to happen....")
This was probably late 60 s, early 70 s, but we know by the sermon I mentioned at the beginning of this post, that somewhere in the 70 s he was starting to preach against the Ecumenical, Catholic, protestant unity movement, so I do not believe that these nuns and priests in his board lasted long.
And it showed he had some uneasiness, but eventually he began to speak strongly against Catholicism which we will see in our next quote:
(The cross, the switchblade, and the man who believed, David Wilkerson: by Gary Wilkerson with R.S.B Sawyer)
((page 203)" He wound up writing articles for Jimmy Swaggart that were anti-charismatic and anti-Catholic," historian Vinson Synan says. "He would help to start a movement but then would fight it as an archconservative, old-line Pentecostal.Renewal is so much greater than any of the weird excesses. Those happen in every religious movement; they just come with the territory. David Wilkerson was passionate and sincere, but at times he wasn't seeing the big picture....")
Here is another quote:
(The cross, the switchblade, and the man who believed, David Wilkerson: by Gary Wilkerson with R.S.B Sawyer)
((page 170)"At the same time he was critiquing charismatics, Dad cared very much about the Jesus movement. When he thought it was beginning to fragment, he decided to publish a magazine to keep it thriving. "It was a one shot publication, the size of Time magazine, with articles by key authors, " says David Patterson.... ...The magazine was Jesus Christ Solid Rock, and its theme was the last days. Dad wrote articles about the second coming, pointing to the worldwide outpouring of the Holy Spirit as a sign of the times. Also included were articles about nuclear apocalypse, prophecy through the ages, and "phony Jesus people."...")
So here are things to think about, mentioned in Gary's book.
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Post by Giller on Aug 25, 2019 21:57:50 GMT -5
Here is another interesting quote from Gary's book, about his dad David Wilkerson:
(The cross, the switchblade, and the man who believed, David Wilkerson: by Gary Wilkerson with R.S.B Sawyer)
((page 209)"Revival was a subject on which my father and his good friend Leonard Ravenhill did not share a bond. Dad questioned the worth of most revivals. "They usually last two to five years, and then they're gone," he said. And what is left? What is the quality of commitment by those who have chosen to follow Jesus? What condition are churches left in? Does the fruit of the experience last? Has it been a work worthy of God's name, or a temporal spectacle? "I don't want a visitation,' Dad often said, "I want a habitation." Dad did not endorse the Brownsville Revival, but he did endorse Steve Hill."...")
I know that Leonard Ravenhill was a good friend and mentor to David Wilkerson, yet on the subject of revival, I guess in certain areas of it, they did not share a bond, I am not sure what their argument or disagreement was about.
One thing I know is that it is possible that a revival only lasts for 3 years or so, but if it is genuine it should bring a change of some kind, but often times things can fall to the way side , because of lack of being grounded and rooted in Christ.
But in saying this, David does ask very legitimate questions about revival here, and one saying he said, that I extremely love, is the saying were he said this:" I don't want a visitation, I want an habitation", which is awesome, and 100% true, and should be all our desire.
I do not know much about the Brownsville revival, if it was genuine or not, but it seems that David Wilkerson did not endorse it, yet endorsed Steve Hill, the individual.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 26, 2019 6:41:33 GMT -5
This often happens within ministries . Folks can get their senses dulled because they are influenced by so much that is around them. With all the information that flows constantly from people themselves the mind can get cloudy and the senses can be dulled . Yet if we read daily the bible , those senses are refreshed and sharpened . Folks can over look things in those they call friends and yet see it in other folks . We gotta continuously exhort with sound doctrine and to exhort to continuously be reading those bibles . In this day and age there is an information explosion and always so many ideals and opinions . It probably first increased with the inventing of the printingpress, then with tv , and now its everywhere , phone computer tv , you name it . We more than ever need to be reading our bibles every day and have that refreshing of the mind . I think in ministry this happens a lot. Friends wont rebuke friends or they do anything to try and give the person the benfit of the doubt . BIG NO NO . Also a lot of men who are pastors WENT TO SEMINARIES and they very well have some of that stuff still in them . What we need is a continual feasting on the bible . In these days alone everywhere one turns you are hearing an opinion and information is in overload . Our minds must stay refreshed in those bibles . And let us be in prayer more and doing all things pleasing in the sight of the LORD . Friends don't let friends err and they don't overlook anything for the sake of unity and fellowship . Once that begins it will get worse unless it gets repented of . SO the focus on the greatest love has to be ON THE LORD FIRST and FOREMOST . IF the LOVE OF THE LORD remains a constant FIRST ON the heart THEN EVERYTHING ELSE WILL WORK as it should , but if anything starts getting over looked for the sake of lets agree to disagree , WE BETTER watch out with that mindset . I think that mindset is a deadly one , because while we don't have to be mean or hateful about things , WE need to have this focus instead , LETS AGREE to AGREE ONLY IF what we teach or say , HONORS GOD ABOVE EVERYTHING . The focus Must be on the LORD . For years that I cannot count I bet this pattern has not been entirely kept . And its a recipe for disaster . With everything we do or say , teach or think , LET THE THOUGHT be , DOES THIS TRULY HONOR and LOVE GOD ABOVE EVERYTHING . IF we have that mindset , THEN the pattern will be kept , AND if one really is in error they will repent and hear the other . IF JESUS said something , Never try and twist it or let another try and twist it . If one errs and comes and confesses something , NEVER Let it once be said , OH that is okay brother or sister , we all mess up . Because that in no way HONORS GOD . We don't beat the person down , BUT NEVER DOWN PLAY SIN EVER ONCE . A much better response would be this . SAY I came on and said , brethren I did a bad thing , I got angry at one or I said some things I should not have . THE ABSOLUTE WORST response is , OH brother we all err , its okay . RATHER we should say , OKAY lets get this corrected go to that person and get this fixed and its good that you confessed this error and we will pray for you . NO MORE its okay we all have bad days . THAT in no way HONORS GOD .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 26, 2019 6:49:22 GMT -5
A lot of folks say things in ignorance , Like those things I mentioned above . BUT WHEN THEY DO we must remind them . IF we have that same mindset like paul , james , and others taught , The mind of CHRIST then we will honor and love GOD above all things . THIS IS WHY I truly truly wish people would stop heeding men , AND GO BACK INTO BIBLES . IF this pattern GETS SO ENGRAIEND IN THE MIND , its a wonderful thing . WE LEARN the real JESUS , OUR MINDS GROW IN THIS . And when things come alongthat are contrary , the SPIRIT sends alarm bells and as paul once said the scrips make one wise unto salvation . I think it would do everyone a massive amount of Good , if their was an all out big return to BIBLES ONLY , STAY IN IT let the mind be big time refreshed with the reading over and over again , learning very well the pattern of JESUS and the apostels . LEARNING the words THAT GOD spoke through the prophets . LET THOSE THINGS get DEEPLY ENGRAIEND . A WHOLE lot of attitudes would change and very fast too .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 26, 2019 6:57:28 GMT -5
Look at pauls mindset . He did , when even talking about his own letters , IF ANY MAN heeds not this etc , Have no company with them . Don't count them as a enemy , TEACH them , correct them . He never said hug them into correction man , so long as they agree on most of what I wrote its okay to agree to disagree . I DONT THINK SO . WE must have that mindset again . When peter was in error , Did paul say , I understood that we err, SO I HUGGED HIM TO JESUS BEFORE THEM ALL . PAULS MIND was on DOING ALL THINGS that HONOR THE FATHER and thus this kind of love by the Spirit will correct error fast and SEE DANGER IN IT . Yall we gotta get this back. THE FOCUS has to be that we truly LOVE GOD MORE THAN MOTHER FATHER WIFE ETC And I am being honest , IF WE ARE HIS the MORE WE READ THAT BIBLE the clearer things will get . THIS IS ALSO a reason that if any man wants to teach etc, HE BETTER LONG WELL have this mindset before his foot takes one step up to begin to teach . WE NEED THIS BACK MAN . AND WE NEED IT NOW . So I encourage only the doubling down of bible reading again , LET THE MINDS be REFRESHED and STAY grounded in that bible .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 26, 2019 7:10:39 GMT -5
Lets put ones mind at ease . When I said we have to agree to agree , I AM TALKING about EVERYTHING In those letters . Even paul said meats drinks and days not all will see the same . THUS EXACTLY . I AGREE WITH THAT . I mean we have to agree we will agree ON EVERYTHING they wrote . THE APOSTELS KNEW HIM and those letters were left for us for a REASON . That we would grow in wisdom . SO LETS learn those letters and the sayings of JESUS VERY WELL and learn all things GOD did inspire .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 26, 2019 7:13:32 GMT -5
NOW PUT THOSE HANDS UP and LET A PRAISE BE SANG TO THE LORD .
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Post by Giller on Aug 26, 2019 8:15:24 GMT -5
Personally myself, I always heard that the Brownsville revival was false, but just never really looked into it, so I cannot say much on the subject, since I know not much about it, but nevertheless, when God moves it truly brings in a good change, and it brings in biblical truths.
I all want is more of Jesus, and less of me, and when I know something is false, you guys know I am not afraid to say so.
For myself, I will not endorse something I know not much about.
And in this post, I wanted to show some things that was mentioned in one of David Wilkerson's preaches, and things mentioned in his son's book.
From reading Gary's book, he seems to often puts somewhat of a negative spin on when his father spoke against certain movements.
I wrote to him, so to see what his view was on ecumenical stuff, and I believe a bit on the seeker sensitive movement.
I did not get an answer, and could not find any message of him speaking against the ecumenical movement or even seeker sensitive stuff.
I did find a post of someone who went to their assembly, and does not want to go back, he seems to find it somewhat seeker sensitive, and some of the music (maybe not all) seems to be off the mark, and seems to be wild in some form.
Pray for Gary, because to me there seems to be a wrong direction there.
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Post by Giller on Aug 26, 2019 8:18:17 GMT -5
I would not mind hearing some of the people's thoughts on the Brownsville revival or so called.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 26, 2019 9:50:28 GMT -5
I would not mind hearing some of the people's thoughts on the Brownsville revival or so called. I don’t know know enough to have an opinion. That happened in my teen years when I didn’t much care, and since then I haven’t much bothered to go back and investigate.
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