Cletus
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Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on May 17, 2020 21:29:38 GMT -5
I recently finished reading the book of Job, and wondered if this was a real man or a kind of parable? What do you all think? Do you think that the devil goes to God accusing us, and then we get tested? the customs and general lifestyle of the book of Job are from a period called the patriarchal period which was around 2000-1800B.C. Scholars hold various views on this topic ranging from it was nothing more than oral tradition passed down to the author being Moses at around the 15th century b.c. date while others say 2nd century and others attribute it to Solomon (mid-10th century B.C.)and even possibly some of the other authors in Psalms/Proverbs. no one knows for certain, these days. only God and the one who wrote it physically know it. and maybe whoever was around then. None of this however answers your question...
yes, i do believe Job was a real live man. why? because scripture does testify. Behold:
Eze 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
I am going to lay it out here. are Noah and Daniel also a made up character? Scripture is under attack by the enemy to get you/us to DOUBT any piece of it. once you do, you will begin the process of making it a habit. Ezekiel refers to Job as a real person. The Book of Job is a poem. dramatic. heart wrenching. and its also an epic story.
another reason i do believe Job was a real person is every single word in the bible somehow points to Jesus. Jesus is never mentioned directly in Job, but Job is a Christ type... He is the suffering servant. who was stripped of all he had and later was restored and became intercessor to his friends. suffering under Gods sovereign will to please the Father. However Elihu does give utterance of The Holy Ghost, Behold:
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
now why on Gods green earth does He need to make up someone to be a Christ type? God makes living beings and makes His-tory... He dont make up tall tales. I believe Job was a gentile, and was a descendant of Nahor, which is Abrahams brother. its no coincidence of that and there being 30 references to God in Job by the name "Shaddai" or The Almighty.
oh yes, i believe Job is a real man, and i full well expect to one day hug his neck and tell him i have read about him.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on May 17, 2020 21:53:44 GMT -5
Do you think that the devil goes to God accusing us, and then we get tested? what authority does the enemy have if we do not give it to him?
Pro 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.
a part of the book of Job is the theme that man sometimes goes thru things and we by our own reasoning can not understand why... but we still remain faithful to God thru all of it. God does not tell us every detail.
if we live a righteous life, and we do not give the enemy a foothold thru sinning, he cant get us unless God allows it. Dont believe it???... and even more that The Lover of our soul would allow such a thing? lets take a closer look at scripture....
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
it was God who asked the enemy if he had considered Job. it was the enemy who said God put a hedge around Job, his house and all he has on every side.
now pay close attention to verse 11... put forth THINE hand. Thine hand it says. this is Gods hand... this is not chastisement or correction, oh no, this is wrath and vengeance type a thing. the enemy accused Job of hypocrisy basically. but even in all this the enemy admits he has zero power. he has no ability to afflict job unless God does it. the enemy was merely the vessel who tried to rob Job of eternal life.
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Post by John on May 18, 2020 5:59:49 GMT -5
Do you think that the devil goes to God accusing us, and then we get tested? what authority does the enemy have if we do not give it to him?
Pro 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe. a part of the book of Job is the theme that man sometimes goes thru things and we by our own reasoning can not understand why... but we still remain faithful to God thru all of it. God does not tell us every detail.
if we live a righteous life, and we do not give the enemy a foothold thru sinning, he cant get us unless God allows it. Dont believe it???... and even more that The Lover of our soul would allow such a thing? lets take a closer look at scripture.... Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. it was God who asked the enemy if he had considered Job. it was the enemy who said God put a hedge around Job, his house and all he has on every side.
now pay close attention to verse 11... put forth THINE hand. Thine hand it says. this is Gods hand... this is not chastisement or correction, oh no, this is wrath and vengeance type a thing. the enemy accused Job of hypocrisy basically. but even in all this the enemy admits he has zero power. he has no ability to afflict job unless God does it. the enemy was merely the vessel who tried to rob Job of eternal life.
In verse 11, the enemy indeed till God that if He (God), puts forth his hand and touches all Job has, Job will curse Him. This shows me that the devil is on a leash, and can only go as far as he is allowed to go, only as far as God will let him. At the same time, in verse 12, God basically gives the devil permission to attack Job. "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." We see in another story where God commissions false prophets to lie to Ahab to cause him to fall in battle, but God did not lie to Ahab. I do not think that God is the one that actually attacked Job. but He most certainly did tell the devil he could do so. At least, that is how it comes across to me.
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Post by John on May 18, 2020 6:01:12 GMT -5
I recently finished reading the book of Job, and wondered if this was a real man or a kind of parable? What do you all think? Do you think that the devil goes to God accusing us, and then we get tested? the customs and general lifestyle of the book of Job are from a period called the patriarchal period which was around 2000-1800B.C. Scholars hold various views on this topic ranging from it was nothing more than oral tradition passed down to the author being Moses at around the 15th century b.c. date while others say 2nd century and others attribute it to Solomon (mid-10th century B.C.)and even possibly some of the other authors in Psalms/Proverbs. no one knows for certain, these days. only God and the one who wrote it physically know it. and maybe whoever was around then. None of this however answers your question... yes, i do believe Job was a real live man. why? because scripture does testify. Behold: Eze 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. I am going to lay it out here. are Noah and Daniel also a made up character? Scripture is under attack by the enemy to get you/us to DOUBT any piece of it. once you do, you will begin the process of making it a habit. Ezekiel refers to Job as a real person. The Book of Job is a poem. dramatic. heart wrenching. and its also an epic story.
another reason i do believe Job was a real person is every single word in the bible somehow points to Jesus. Jesus is never mentioned directly in Job, but Job is a Christ type... He is the suffering servant. who was stripped of all he had and later was restored and became intercessor to his friends. suffering under Gods sovereign will to please the Father. However Elihu does give utterance of The Holy Ghost, Behold: Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. now why on Gods green earth does He need to make up someone to be a Christ type? God makes living beings and makes His-tory... He dont make up tall tales. I believe Job was a gentile, and was a descendant of Nahor, which is Abrahams brother. its no coincidence of that and there being 30 references to God in Job by the name "Shaddai" or The Almighty.
oh yes, i believe Job is a real man, and i full well expect to one day hug his neck and tell him i have read about him.
Excellent post Cletus, and I agree that Job was a real man. The scriptures you brought forth pretty much prove that is the case.
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Post by frienduff on May 18, 2020 7:20:07 GMT -5
the customs and general lifestyle of the book of Job are from a period called the patriarchal period which was around 2000-1800B.C. Scholars hold various views on this topic ranging from it was nothing more than oral tradition passed down to the author being Moses at around the 15th century b.c. date while others say 2nd century and others attribute it to Solomon (mid-10th century B.C.)and even possibly some of the other authors in Psalms/Proverbs. no one knows for certain, these days. only God and the one who wrote it physically know it. and maybe whoever was around then. None of this however answers your question... yes, i do believe Job was a real live man. why? because scripture does testify. Behold: Eze 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. I am going to lay it out here. are Noah and Daniel also a made up character? Scripture is under attack by the enemy to get you/us to DOUBT any piece of it. once you do, you will begin the process of making it a habit. Ezekiel refers to Job as a real person. The Book of Job is a poem. dramatic. heart wrenching. and its also an epic story.
another reason i do believe Job was a real person is every single word in the bible somehow points to Jesus. Jesus is never mentioned directly in Job, but Job is a Christ type... He is the suffering servant. who was stripped of all he had and later was restored and became intercessor to his friends. suffering under Gods sovereign will to please the Father. However Elihu does give utterance of The Holy Ghost, Behold: Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. now why on Gods green earth does He need to make up someone to be a Christ type? God makes living beings and makes His-tory... He dont make up tall tales. I believe Job was a gentile, and was a descendant of Nahor, which is Abrahams brother. its no coincidence of that and there being 30 references to God in Job by the name "Shaddai" or The Almighty.
oh yes, i believe Job is a real man, and i full well expect to one day hug his neck and tell him i have read about him.
Excellent post Cletus, and I agree that Job was a real man. The scriptures you brought forth pretty much prove that is the case.
They are and have been doing everything now to humanize the bible . I seen jewish scholars to gentile ones who actually say they know it was an alleogry that adam and them did not really live nine hundred years . But i dont heed them . I have seen them say the donkey did not speak physcially to baalim . But it DID and i dont heed them . They even say jonas was just a story too , that no whale really swallowed him up . YET EVEN JESUS made mention of jonas . GOD is in control . HE created all that is by simply speaking rest assured HE can make a donkey speak , a whale swallow a man and keep him alive . They try and humanize the bible so carnal minds can accept it as truth . DOUBTING IN GOD is all they do . IF its in the bible , THEN IT IS REAL and IT DID HAPPEN . sure that will get me laughed out of many scholarly world wise debates , But a small child simply BELIEVES . And needs no human reason to make it make sense . THEY just follow and HEED the SPIRIT and they simply BELEIVE what is written . NOW HANDS UP , ITS LORD PRAISING TIME .
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Post by watchful on May 18, 2020 9:14:59 GMT -5
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
This includes the book of Job.
Yes, but personally why do you read Scripture ? (same question to the OP) etc ....
Do you think that in reading Scripture you can find life ?
You say some penetrating things brother......ploughing deeply. Good to examine ourselves.
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Post by watchful on May 18, 2020 9:35:25 GMT -5
Job's life is a picture of the life of the believer. He was a righteous man and so was persecuted by the devil...which God allowed as chastisements for his spiritual good. (And who is without chastisement is an illegitimate child). SO THAT by the end Job could repent of himself and say that he had only hitherto heard of God by the hearing of the ear, but that now his eye (single eye!) finally could SEE Him.....because of having entered into the FELLOWSHIP of Christ's sufferings, for the perfecting of our faith. If we get the end of the story, we will understand the reason for Job's and our suffering.
Job 42:5-6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on May 18, 2020 20:13:20 GMT -5
what authority does the enemy have if we do not give it to him?
Pro 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe. a part of the book of Job is the theme that man sometimes goes thru things and we by our own reasoning can not understand why... but we still remain faithful to God thru all of it. God does not tell us every detail.
if we live a righteous life, and we do not give the enemy a foothold thru sinning, he cant get us unless God allows it. Dont believe it???... and even more that The Lover of our soul would allow such a thing? lets take a closer look at scripture.... Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. it was God who asked the enemy if he had considered Job. it was the enemy who said God put a hedge around Job, his house and all he has on every side.
now pay close attention to verse 11... put forth THINE hand. Thine hand it says. this is Gods hand... this is not chastisement or correction, oh no, this is wrath and vengeance type a thing. the enemy accused Job of hypocrisy basically. but even in all this the enemy admits he has zero power. he has no ability to afflict job unless God does it. the enemy was merely the vessel who tried to rob Job of eternal life.
In verse 11, the enemy indeed till God that if He (God), puts forth his hand and touches all Job has, Job will curse Him. This shows me that the devil is on a leash, and can only go as far as he is allowed to go, only as far as God will let him. At the same time, in verse 12, God basically gives the devil permission to attack Job. "Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand." We see in another story where God commissions false prophets to lie to Ahab to cause him to fall in battle, but God did not lie to Ahab. I do not think that God is the one that actually attacked Job. but He most certainly did tell the devil he could do so. At least, that is how it comes across to me.
I do not think God attacked Job either. not exactly like that. its hard to verbalize. the power is Gods. the enemy does not have any power...
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
what i am really speaking on is the implication... because God approved the enemy to attack Job... it WOULD have been sin to do as his wife told him. or as his peer pressuring friends said. its not God actually attacking. but i want you to think on this...
when God asks a question He wants us to think. sometimes there is an action we must do to. sometimes not. but He always wants us to at least think. He already knows the answer to the question. God asked the enemy if he had considered Job. this tells us a lot about God right here. He is very willing that we would endure suffering, and loss. He is not above it Himself. God didnt do it Himself... but Job was tested hard. i believe Job was more righteous than His friends. they believed he had some sin and he was being judged.
what i believe is the book of Job gives us insight into things we dont normally see here. i have not seen a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before The LORD... have you?
but why was Job tested? why must we suffer? notice the similarities below:
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
i guess what i speak on is really Gods sovereignty. nothing, absolutely nothing is not under this. and BTW, in reference to 1pet5:9, Job would fall in the brethren category.
He Is Sovereign.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on May 18, 2020 20:19:33 GMT -5
Excellent post Cletus, and I agree that Job was a real man. The scriptures you brought forth pretty much prove that is the case.
They are and have been doing everything now to humanize the bible . I seen jewish scholars to gentile ones who actually say they know it was an alleogry that adam and them did not really live nine hundred years . But i dont heed them . I have seen them say the donkey did not speak physcially to baalim . But it DID and i dont heed them . They even say jonas was just a story too , that no whale really swallowed him up . YET EVEN JESUS made mention of jonas . GOD is in control . HE created all that is by simply speaking rest assured HE can make a donkey speak , a whale swallow a man and keep him alive . They try and humanize the bible so carnal minds can accept it as truth . DOUBTING IN GOD is all they do . IF its in the bible , THEN IT IS REAL and IT DID HAPPEN . sure that will get me laughed out of many scholarly world wise debates , But a small child simply BELIEVES . And needs no human reason to make it make sense . THEY just follow and HEED the SPIRIT and they simply BELEIVE what is written . NOW HANDS UP , ITS LORD PRAISING TIME . I too say no whale swallowed up Jonah. go read it. it says a large fish. lol.
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Post by Giller on May 18, 2020 20:27:41 GMT -5
Mat 12:40 (40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on May 18, 2020 20:36:50 GMT -5
Mat 12:40 (40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. oh my....
Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
you done went and did it again Giller... you brought out scripture and now i must dig.
i can now not say it was not a whale anymore. at least not until i find out more about translation of words and how these words were used in other texts.
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Post by frienduff on May 18, 2020 20:47:57 GMT -5
Mat 12:40 (40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. oh my....
Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
you done went and did it again Giller... you brought out scripture and now i must dig.
i can now not say it was not a whale anymore. at least not until i find out more about translation of words and how these words were used in other texts.
They often called a whale a fish . We dont today , we call it a mammal etc . but the term fish did apply to whale back then . You be encouraged my friend .
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on May 18, 2020 21:06:31 GMT -5
oh my....
Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
you done went and did it again Giller... you brought out scripture and now i must dig.
i can now not say it was not a whale anymore. at least not until i find out more about translation of words and how these words were used in other texts.
They often called a whale a fish . We dont today , we call it a mammal etc . but the term fish did apply to whale back then . You be encouraged my friend . this seems logical. what i have found out so far is that the greek word for whale here under its latin counterpart is the word used for the latin genus/species classification of many whales today. I wanted to go a bit deeper than just vocabulary/translation so... i found out there at least two species of whale in the Mediterranean sea capable of swallowing a man that eat plankton/krill. so they are the open mouth feeders.... and dig this, the greek word for whale, the base word means to gape or yawn. everything points to it was a whale.
Giller thanks for showing me that verse.
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Post by John on May 19, 2020 4:44:47 GMT -5
oh my.... Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
you done went and did it again Giller... you brought out scripture and now i must dig.
i can now not say it was not a whale anymore. at least not until i find out more about translation of words and how these words were used in other texts.
They often called a whale a fish . We dont today , we call it a mammal etc . but the term fish did apply to whale back then . You be encouraged my friend . You are exactly right. Scientists call a whale a mammal, not a fish, but the Bible calls a whale a great fish. I am learning things about differences in Bible terminology from the way we use words today, and it does make a difference.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on May 19, 2020 8:05:02 GMT -5
I'm glad that Rejoice is still reading through the Bible. That's wonderful. Why would anyone think it's strange to read Job, and why would anyone want to know why people read the Bible? I want to know why any professing Christian chooses not to read the Bible?
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