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Post by frienduff on Jul 7, 2020 14:02:25 GMT -5
I can already see , this world AINT GONNA LOVE ME . but it better not LOVE ANY OF US . NOW HANDS UP . LET AN ALL OUT PRAISE FEST BE SOUNDED TO OUR LORD and ONLY SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST . let the mockers mock and the haters hate , JUST PREACH CHRIST and let GOD give the increase . many will hate and reject and grow only harder , and harder and so much harder against the truth . But , at least some will hear . AND JESUS WILL BE HONORED . THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS . THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS . and i say again that is all that matters .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 7, 2020 14:07:13 GMT -5
We really need to study the word pure biblically. God is very serious about his word. Although Watchful I do appreciate that you mentioned the language issue, although it did not change my mind on my view, but made me think a bit, about people in Christian circles of different languages, and how things are mentioned in their language. It is better to be prudent, than not prudent, because often times that is how things come in, with lack of prudence. Pro 8:12 (12) I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. Jer 10:2-4 (2) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. (3) For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. (4) They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Learn not, means do even learn it, no not at all learn it. As long as it is a celebration of Christ's birth, then I don't mind participating and don't consider it wrong....though I stop at putting up a Christmas tree because it is all too similar to the verses you posted. There is a move afoot to remove His name from the day entirely and call it nothing but "Holiday", but I keep calling it Christmas as a small witness and reminder of what I am celebrating and what I only wish others were really celebrating too. If Christmas starts to be openly associated in society with something un-Christian, like for example a pagan god, or Antichrist's birthday, and became a day to celebrate him or a pagan god, then I just would no longer participate in it at all because the meaning and purpose of it would have changed to something offensive to the Lord and my conscience. Many different religions have a holiday during that season, and it wouldn't surprise me if it started to become a celebration of "all faiths leading to God" kind of holiday, in which case I would have to give it a pass. i hear you my dear sister . while we do NOT know the actual day he was born . Just as we do not know the actual day of his crucifixtion . IF We want to remember and celebrate it . THEN DO SO . ONLY as you already know . DO NOT bring anything pagan into it . CAUSE that DOES NOT HONOR HIM it angers HIM . But if we want to hold our own special day to remember HIS birth . WHY NOT . The world is honoring all sorts of evil and make holidays out of it . Just NOTHING PAGAN or its evil . but as i said you know this already .
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Post by Giller on Jul 7, 2020 22:14:37 GMT -5
Watchful I have been looking hard into what you say about the word mas part of Christmas meaning a celebration, but have not found that anywhere yet.
But I will still look.
But every time I checked about the word Christmas, in its original meaning (not modern meaning), it always points me to the mass.
Here is more information:
(https://aleteia.org/2017/08/24/why-do-catholics-call-their-main-church-services-mass/)
(...The English word “Mass” comes from the Latin word missa, which means to be “sent.” This Latin word has been used since the 6th or 7th century to describe the Catholic celebration of the Eucharist, our main liturgical service. The word is used during the conclusion of the celebration, when the priest or deacon says in Latin, Ite, missa est....)
So we got our English word mass from the Latin word missa, which here they say it means to be sent, and others say it means dismissal, and at the end of a mass there was a dismissal, and in latin they would say, Ite, missa.
And so far I have not seen any info that relates the term christmas to this anglo sanxon meaning you have mentioned Watchful.
Here is more info:
(https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/1963302/christmas-term-meaning-why-shorten-xmas/)
(...To a point that is the case - the word is a shortened form of "Christ's mass", or "Cristes Maesse" as it was first recorded in 1038.
This was followed by the term Cristes-messe in 1131, according to the The Catholic Encyclopedia.
The term "Christ" - or Crīst as it originally read - comes from the Greek word Khrīstos, a translation of the Hebrew word Messiah, which means "anointed".
The second part of Christmas - maesse - is a version of the Latin word missa, the celebration of the Eucharist...)
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Post by Giller on Jul 7, 2020 22:20:49 GMT -5
I am not really concerning myself with feasts such as Michaelmas, which I would not celebrate anyways, for obvious reasons, but rather I am concerning myself with Christ's name, and how the word Christmas was formed. It is to bring attention to how we use his name, and that we should revere his name, and be careful with such an holy, and precious name. Are you saying that you see using the name Christ in association with Christmas as using God's name in a vain manner? Yes the way I see it, and it shows that the word they attached to Christ's name is the Catholic mass, or celebration of the eucharist, and you cannot do that to Christ's name.
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Post by Giller on Jul 7, 2020 22:31:47 GMT -5
If something has bad roots, God does not accept it not matter how good it looks, and even at the motivating roots, he wants bad roots broken, cut down, and show me scriptures saying contrary, and you will not find them.
And that is my challenge show me scriptures showing contrary to this.
Because in the end it is about glorifying God, not to a certain point and stop when things get tough, but to glorify him in all his ways, in all his points.
Its about him, and not about us, no not even one inch.
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Post by Giller on Jul 7, 2020 22:35:48 GMT -5
And I agree with celebrating the birth of Christ, but not with all this paganism added to it, lies added to it, were they infactickly state that Jesus was born on Christmas day (December 25th).
Not in pleasing the pagans, or in compromise, but in purity.
I mean purity as God sees purity.
Not as men see purity, but as God sees purity.
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Post by Giller on Jul 7, 2020 23:31:13 GMT -5
Ok watchful I found a bit of stuff on it, and I know that the English word mass came from the Latin. Here is the info: (https://books.google.ca/books?id=RgIIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA330&lpg=PA330&dq=word+mas+means+to+celebrate&source=bl&ots=lugao3c3Io&sig=ACfU3U3rp9SHeWRr5V4xt43pdzHRVqYiaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjZh_SQ3bzqAhUal3IEHVN0CwkQ6AEwEnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=word%20mas%20means%20to%20celebrate&f=false)(...The word "mass" is from an old Sanxon word, signifying a holy day or feast.I beg to inform Dudie that "mas," the termination of Christmas,Lammas, Candlemas, and Martinmas, is the same as "mass," a word exclusively used to denote a portion of the Roman Catholic service. Formerly, however, the word was used... to signify the dismissal. (Latin, missa) of an assembly or congregation, and afterwards it signified the assembly so dimissed.......Mass being used (in times when the church of England was under Pope's authority) to express the celebration of the holy communion; by the words Christmas, Michaelmas, and Martinmas, we mean the mass, or holy communion, which was celebrated respectively on the feasts of Christmas, St Michael, and St Martin...)Now in this article, it seems that there was a discussion going on, on one hand, one thing said, was that the word "mass" is from an old Sanxon word, signifying holy day or feast, but on the other hand the other person mentions to this other person, and starts with the words, I beg to inform Dudie. Now we know that our English word came from the Latin, and I know that both the Anglo Sanxon language and the Latin language are both old languages. And by the 1000's the Catholic mass was well established, and their masses back then were done primarily in Latin. Even other feasts they partook of which was called Michaelmas, and Martinmas, also pointed to the mass, but was written in short form, with the words "mas", like Christmas, which the eucharist was celebrated on these days. When I used to go to the Catholic church services on what is called Christmas, they had the midnight mass, and communion. Although I hated it, even as a non believer. So there may be a meaning in the anglo sanxon language of the word mass, meaning a feast, but our English word actually does not come from the Sanxon version, but from the Latin version, which pointed to the communion of the Eucharist, in the dark ages, and it is well known, and not hidden, and you can see it through a lot of church history, even the Albigensians and so forth mentioned it, and they were near to the time the actual word Christmas came forth, so you would think that the people of the time would know better, wouldn't you . (https://aleteia.org/2017/08/24/why-do-catholics-call-their-main-church-services-mass/)
(...The English word “Mass” comes from the Latin word missa, which means to be “sent.” This Latin word has been used since the 6th or 7th century to describe the Catholic celebration of the Eucharist, our main liturgical service. The word is used during the conclusion of the celebration, when the priest or deacon says in Latin, Ite, missa est....)And the word mass or missa, was used since the 6th or 7th century to describe the Catholic celebration of the Eucharist, so it has been used to point to this for a long time, so by the 1000's it has been used this way for a good while.
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Post by Giller on Jul 8, 2020 0:02:11 GMT -5
I guess soon in these postings, I will mention a different subject altogether, were we need to take heed to, although I am a bit amazed concerning the issue of not being concerned in adding Christ's name to the word mass, should we take a chance?
But so far I have heard no concern on this, no concern for his name so far, of whether we should take a chance at adding that word to his name.
I know that for myself, why would I take a chance at offending the Lord, is he not more worth it, than anything?
I do not know but to me if there is even a remote chance to offend him, I do not want to please myself, but to please God, and not offend him.
God is much more holy than we might think.
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Post by Giller on Jul 8, 2020 6:14:34 GMT -5
Does origins or roots matter to God?
Show me a verse were it says it does not matter, and I can show that God wants bad roots cut down.
See often times we may say it does not matter to me, but the gospel is not about you, it is about God, and salvation in Christ.
The question should never be about us, but rather if it matters to God or not.
I do not see anywhere in the bible were God says we can Christianize bad roots.
Even with the golden calf, God wanted it destroyed, he did not allow an opportunity for it to be Christianize, he wanted it totally destroyed, it gone.
We really need to ponder upon what we are saying, and who or what we are defending.
Remember it is not about us, not at all.
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Post by watchful on Jul 8, 2020 7:23:28 GMT -5
Watchful I have been looking hard into what you say about the word mas part of Christmas meaning a celebration, but have not found that anywhere yet. But I will still look. But every time I checked about the word Christmas, in its original meaning (not modern meaning), it always points me to the mass. Here is more information: (https://aleteia.org/2017/08/24/why-do-catholics-call-their-main-church-services-mass/)
(...The English word “Mass” comes from the Latin word missa, which means to be “sent.” This Latin word has been used since the 6th or 7th century to describe the Catholic celebration of the Eucharist, our main liturgical service. The word is used during the conclusion of the celebration, when the priest or deacon says in Latin, Ite, missa est....)So we got our English word mass from the Latin word missa, which here they say it means to be sent, and others say it means dismissal, and at the end of a mass there was a dismissal, and in latin they would say, Ite, missa. And so far I have not seen any info that relates the term christmas to this anglo sanxon meaning you have mentioned Watchful. Here is more info: (https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/1963302/christmas-term-meaning-why-shorten-xmas/)
(...To a point that is the case - the word is a shortened form of "Christ's mass", or "Cristes Maesse" as it was first recorded in 1038.
This was followed by the term Cristes-messe in 1131, according to the The Catholic Encyclopedia.
The term "Christ" - or Crīst as it originally read - comes from the Greek word Khrīstos, a translation of the Hebrew word Messiah, which means "anointed".
The second part of Christmas - maesse - is a version of the Latin word missa, the celebration of the Eucharist...)There are different old sources that suggest different things, I can't remember where I learned that about it meaning celebration....it was something I looked up a long time ago....but a feast is a celebration, so it isn't a contradiction. This is just something that is probably impossible to prove brother...we just probably can't trace definitively how some very old word usages evolved, especially with all the different conquests and migrations of peoples and intermixing of languages over many centuries. Dictionary of the Church of England, pg 384 is where I saw that suggestion about the Saxon word maesse meaning feast, and it just seemed to click with me. It's such a long link, hope I managed to capture it all: books.google.ca/books?id=EnsXAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA384&dq=the+word+mass+derives+from+the+latin+word+missa+which+means&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibkOe3z73qAhXBm-AKHVMpCpkQ6AEwBXoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=the%20word%20mass%20derives%20from%20the%20latin%20word%20missa%20which%20means&f=false
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Post by frienduff on Jul 8, 2020 7:51:23 GMT -5
a study should be done on halloween . For many try and justify it by saying it was once a christain holiday . But was it really . YES the catholic church did celebrate halloween . But look real close at what it meant , even without any of the wicked secular things about it . look real closely at this day . The catholic church honored it as a day , BEFORE all saints day . All saints day was on the first . So they celebrated the day before it as well , honoring and praying to the Dead . this day was never holy . If i remember correctly it was also a day in which they prayed for the dead , those in purgatory to be released . though i cant really remember if that part was in there or not . But that is where halloween for the church originated . and do notice in the pagan form of it , its a day in which they say the dead do arise and so forth . I see a huge connection . halloween in no form should ever be celebrated . Giller you should do a study on it and see . By the way , look up the celebration called catagogian . Timothy was beaten so badly for exposing this celebration that he died two days later from the wounds he recieved at those who were celebrating it . LOOK IT UP and see what CATAGOGIAN means . its a day in which men dressed up and honored their gods , in costumes and etc . SOUNDS JUST LIKE HALLOWEEN DONT IT and yet today the churches dress up and try and christanize the very celebration that TIMOTHY DIED to expose its evil . SHUN THAT HELLYDAY of HELLOWEEN to the pits and never once in any form or fashion partake of it .
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Post by Giller on Jul 8, 2020 9:12:08 GMT -5
a study should be done on halloween . For many try and justify it by saying it was once a christain holiday . But was it really . YES the catholic church did celebrate halloween . But look real close at what it meant , even without any of the wicked secular things about it . look real closely at this day . The catholic church honored it as a day , BEFORE all saints day . All saints day was on the first . So they celebrated the day before it as well , honoring and praying to the Dead . this day was never holy . If i remember correctly it was also a day in which they prayed for the dead , those in purgatory to be released . though i cant really remember if that part was in there or not . But that is where halloween for the church originated . and do notice in the pagan form of it , its a day in which they say the dead do arise and so forth . I see a huge connection . halloween in no form should ever be celebrated . Giller you should do a study on it and see . By the way , look up the celebration called catagogian . Timothy was beaten so badly for exposing this celebration that he died two days later from the wounds he recieved at those who were celebrating it . LOOK IT UP and see what CATAGOGIAN means . its a day in which men dressed up and honored their gods , in costumes and etc . SOUNDS JUST LIKE HALLOWEEN DONT IT and yet today the churches dress up and try and christanize the very celebration that TIMOTHY DIED to expose its evil . SHUN THAT HELLYDAY of HELLOWEEN to the pits and never once in any form or fashion partake of it . Ya I have studied Halloween many times, but never looked into this catagogian thing. Thanks for mentioning it, I will look it up. It seems that anything goes these days, it seems that the fear of the Lord, has drastically been reduced.
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Post by Giller on Jul 8, 2020 9:14:21 GMT -5
I might just mention just a little bit of things concerning our current subject, but not much more, the next subject I want to cover, is graven images, or even graven images in the church.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jul 8, 2020 12:08:46 GMT -5
I'm not Catholic, so I could be wrong, but I think that when the Catholics have their services, they call them all a mass, and it just means celebration. It is the celebration of a saint or something special to the church. When they put Christ in front of the word mass, to me it just means celebration of the birth of Christ. I see nothing wrong with that.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 8, 2020 12:37:28 GMT -5
I'm not Catholic, so I could be wrong, but I think that when the Catholics have their services, they call them all a mass, and it just means celebration. It is the celebration of a saint or something special to the church. When they put Christ in front of the word mass, to me it just means celebration of the birth of Christ. I see nothing wrong with that. So lets examine something . If in our hearts we truly do desire to remember and honor the LORD , on the day of his birth , and his life , his crucifixtion and his ressurection . IF we bring the pagan into it , or allow it , we really dont care one ounce about JESUS . either we do as we do out of fear that someone might be offended so we honor pagan stuff in our celebration . OR we just love this life and wordly stuff , but want to tell ourselves its for JESUS . And both are false dead empty vain relgioin . IF we truly yearn and yearned to HONOR JESUS and just celebrated these events , WE DO IT IN HOLINESS , HONORING HIM , embracing HIM . There would be no easter bunnies , no christmas trees , none of that bull dung dookey stuff . MOST folks could care less about JESUS . they just do as they do cause its fun and exciting , but how they do want to FEEL like they honoring JESUS . or out of fear say nothing . Facts are facts , truth is truth . and we got no time left . time to call a spade a spade. SO i beg all to take heed to what i say next . IF i hear of one soul making excuse of christmas trees , or dressing up on HELLOWEEN , or easter bunny and eggs , I am gonna pray destruction of the flesh if they repent not . And i actually believe . SO lest folks wanna grope around cause they blind , LETS not make excuses for any pagan stuff ever again . Just repent . I desire what is best for all , and i desire the LORD be honored above all .
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