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Post by justinadams on Jan 16, 2019 12:07:36 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a 'gentile' christian according to Saul.
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Post by John on Jan 16, 2019 12:16:00 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a 'gentile' christian according to Saul. If you take out where she said, "we gentile Christians," I agree with the position PG4him took. I see it the same way she does, except I see gentiles as adopted Jews. I really think she understands there is but one Christian Church, but was coming from the view of people from gentile nations and how they never had to keep laws that showed them separated from God and pagan outcasts.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 16, 2019 12:18:55 GMT -5
Spiritual Jews. Not human Jews. A Christian of German ancestry will never, ever, ever be a Jew by the flesh, and was forbidden by “Saul” to try. I do not understand why this is so difficult.
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Post by John on Jan 16, 2019 12:19:26 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a 'gentile' christian according to Saul. By the way, who cares what Saul said? I care about the words of Paul, which is Saul after he was born again. He was no longer called Saul.
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Post by John on Jan 16, 2019 12:22:21 GMT -5
Spiritual Jews. Not human Jews. A Christian of German ancestry will never, ever, ever be a Jew by the flesh, and was forbidden by “Saul” to try. I do not understand why this is so difficult. It's not, and I really thought that is what you meant. I actually loved your post.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 16, 2019 12:24:18 GMT -5
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. — Galatians 5:2-4
This is either the word of God or a piece of anti-Semite propaganda. I guess each of us will have to choose an option.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Jan 16, 2019 13:18:25 GMT -5
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. — Galatians 5:2-4This is either the word of God or a piece of anti-Semite propaganda. I guess each of us will have to choose an option. Praise God!! I just now read through this thread and if no one had brought out this scripture, I would have. I think this sums it up, really.
Galatians Chapter 3 1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Romans 10:17 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
We who are born again through faith in Christ are the seed of Abraham... who believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Now, our righteousness no longer comes through the works of the law, but we are clothed in His righteousness. Now, we are given the law of love and have His law written in our hearts... not ordinances, symbols, customs, and rituals. We are to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, might and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Love is the fulfillment of the law. (God who is love, sent His only begotten Son to move the law out of the way so that we may believe on Him and be saved.) Does this mean we can do whatever we please? No, it does not! If we love God and love our neighbor as ourselves, our actions will reflect that.
Romans 13:10 “Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
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Post by justinadams on Jan 16, 2019 14:17:32 GMT -5
Saul was his Hebrew name and Paul his Roman name.
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Post by John on Jan 16, 2019 14:22:16 GMT -5
Saul was his Hebrew name and Paul his Roman name. He was called Saul of Tarsus before his conversion, and Paul after his conversion. If that is why you call him Saul, at least I get it.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 16, 2019 14:59:45 GMT -5
As I drink this coffee I pray and read and get into God presence. If it is wrong He has not told me about it yet. "Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves." - Romans 14:22
Well, it is common when we see other believers worried in drinking and eating wrong and (possibly) going to hell.
"But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse." - 1 Corinthians 8:8
"having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace..." - Romans 14:22
But it is not the case, we can eat what we wish (if we have peace about it). The only restrictions we have is blood, as far as I know:
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well..." - Acts 15:28-29
"...For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." - Matthew 11:30
The problem when people does not understand and they start to get over worried about foods, drinks and Sabbath keeping.
Jesus has made it clear that is lawful to do good on the Sabbath, which means that you keep the Sabbath by simply following Jesus.
"For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." - Matthew 12:8
If you are following Christ and worshiping in spirit and truth you cannot simply do your own will on the Sabbath.
"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the Lord has spoken." - Isaiah 58:13-14
Because worrying too much about foods and drinks and start condemning others for eating and drinking wrong is something that can blind us.
"Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." - Matthew 7:5
Because what profit is there if someone abstain from pork and yet commit adultery and blasphemies?!
"For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies." - Matthew 15:19
"Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." - Matthew 15:11
Then you start developing a prideful heart and that will cause you to keep more and more distant from the (true) law of God, which can only be fulfilled by faith working through love.
"Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." - Romans 13:10
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6I was not really meaning that to be putting my faith as the standard for all to have; but i do see after reading what you wrote how someone could take it that way. I was really building up to what the scripture about strong drink is and how strong drink is defined and used in scripture and the differences between the two drinks. however, I do think to consider my words more carefully would be loving my neighbor so thank you for pointing this out. If someone thinks coffee is a sin then to them it is. I will consider this and choose my words more carefully from now on.
If anything i said about coffee offended anyone, especially Discipler777, then I do apologize. If its wrong to you to drink coffee then you should not. And if you choose to honor God in this way then I do support you in that.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 16, 2019 15:09:59 GMT -5
No one should be made to feel deficient because of their opinion on coffee… I think that rather ties into our other thread on essentials…
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Post by frienduff on Jan 16, 2019 17:44:10 GMT -5
Jesus made clear its not what we eat or drink that defiles us . So no worries about caffine . Drunkeness, yeah , SIN . what really bothers me , is I have seen both Adventist and jewish groups , get all mega major about pork or caffeine. YET they on their third wife and Say GOD gives grace . That really bothers me big time . SEE they the ones in sin and yet accuse others of things that are NOT SIN .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 16, 2019 17:54:31 GMT -5
Its not what we eat that defiles us my jewish movement or Adventists , ITS WHAT COMES OUT OF THE HEART . adulteries , fornication , uncleanliness , lies , man with man and so on . But I don't aruge over meats , drinks and days . let each one do as they do and Honor GOD . its when folks accuse I have problems . However , SIN is a whole nother matter . That gets rebuked .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 16, 2019 17:56:51 GMT -5
Between the Adventists and these jewish movments . They fast accepting beast like chips as okay , they got no idea , because they are on the wrong path . I don't follow jews or faiths , FOLLLOW CHRIST , THEN YOU ON THERIGHT PATH and WONT BE DECIEVED. I HONOR THE FLESH OF NO MAN . ITS FOLLOW AND OBEY CHRIST AND EXALT HIM IN ALL WE DO SAY OR THINK. THAT IS THE ONE TRUE PATH , ALL ELSE IS SINKING SAND .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 16, 2019 17:59:05 GMT -5
Here is the problem . Folks Rome did not inspire the canon and the jews did not inspire torah . GOD DID . so follow not men , BUT FOLLOW ONLY CHRIST .
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