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Post by discipler777 on Jan 17, 2019 0:13:48 GMT -5
We have two separate issues developing here. One is whether Gentiles ought to keep OT teaching on things like wine, and the other is whether caffeine is in the same class as wine. Caffeine does change our brain. That’s a medical fact. The crazy part is that it causes a permanent change. We can break an addiction to get to the point that we don’t need it, but our brain will never go back to looking like it never had it. HOWEVER — the question is whether that change is for better or worse. Medical studies have consistently shown that caffeine improves our memory, focus, and demeanor. It doesn’t make us ‘drunk’ or ‘stoned’ or slower on the reflex. It actually improves our mental health with no bad side effects. And here’s where the plot thickens. There are certain foods we can add to our diet that go far beyond brain chemistry. Some superfoods get down to the DNA level in our bodies to actually change our DNA expression. Yes, you can literally, physically improve the new DNA your body produces (new skin layers, new hair, fresh blood cells, etc) by eating a regimen of superfoods. Look at a spice like turmeric, for example, which is one the foods. Does this make turmeric a drug? All the food we eat affects our bodies in ways we have yet to understand. Now please understand, I’m not making excuses to go out and smoke marijuana. Common sense tells you when a substance makes you stoned. Don’t put anything in your body that makes you feel weird. The question is whether an improved demeanor with no intoxication counts as something bad. . thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/i/i_03/i_03_m/i_03_m_par/i_03_m_par_cafeine.html. Caffeine addiction permanently disrupts the sleep pattern, eg the lack of the sleepy feeling = may cause sleeping problems or insomnia. This is harmful to the body's rest at night, even though caffeine has certain medical benefits during the day as a stimulant.
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Post by discipler777 on Jan 17, 2019 0:27:12 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a 'gentile' christian according to Saul. . That is only true wrt salvation, ie both Jews and Gentiles were saved from hell by faith in Jesus Christ alone, and not by doing the good works of keeping the Law.
Wrt the Law, God has different requirements for Jewish and Gentile Christians, as per ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25 and HEB.10:15-16. In the coming 7 year Great Tribulation period, God will be sending His Two Witnesses to save the Jews(REV.11), ie after rapturing/resurrecting His believers(= both Jewish and Gentile Christians) during the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ to earth. Even though most of the Jews have rejected Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, God will not forget the Jews, who were His chosen people from Abraham onward.
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Post by discipler777 on Jan 17, 2019 0:44:35 GMT -5
If you read the Laws carefully, you will see that certain 'foods' were quite harmful. To keep to the Kosher diet is quite beneficial. When they talk of food, the apostles were only talking of 'clean' food. The others were NOT even considered food. If you take a look at the biological multiplication of certain foods, you will see that in times past it was harmful for consumption. Shell fish especially (aka The Japanese poison events) If you look at certain molds you will see that some are real killers. Washing hands BEFORE operations also saved many lives in early US medical history. Those stories are just so very sad. If the surgeons had read the Law (as they did later) many thousands of mothers would not have died in the natal wards. If you take note of the Law it is of great benefit. I am not suggesting an OTT method of applying it, but from personal experience I have done much better since I started observing the Law seriously and learning from it. . Yes, it is good, holy and just for everyone to keep God's Law. But for some Gentile Christians, it may be quite a burden to do so, eg in most Muslim countries, it is quite impossible to keep the Christian Sunday Sabbath-rest day, to eat only kosher/clean foods in China/SKorea/Japan, etc. That was why God liberated Gentile Christians from any of His Law that may prove a burden, at ACTS.15:19-29.
It is good that some Gentile Christians can keep the Christian Sunday Sabbath-rest day, eat kosher foods, circumcise their male babies, etc. But those who could not keep such, should not be compelled to do so or be condemned as hell-bound. Like I said before, for some Gentile Christians, eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ trumps a good and long life on earth through the Law, especially for chain-smokers, alcoholics, drug-addicts, prescription pill-addicts, mentally-disabled, physically-disabled, etc. ....... A few even go to the extent of mis-condemning other Christians for not always feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking in the homeless, visiting the sick in hospitals and prisoners in jail.
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Post by discipler777 on Jan 17, 2019 1:09:24 GMT -5
What was discussed in Acts is not about burdensome laws. It is about laws that were in the Old Testament that were given to the Jews to show they were separate from the unclean, and idol worshipping gentile nations around them. They would be circumcised, stay away from what was considered unclean foods, and have to observe the Sabbath day rest. These commandments were never given to the gentiles because they were actually showing the gentiles were unclean. The symbolism changed once the gentiles were brought into the faith. Now, through faith in Christ, they were no longer common or unclean, so there was no reason for them to observe laws that showed them to be common, unclean, and outside the faith. It has nothing to do with laws that were burdensome, though they may have become a burden, and it certainly has nothing to do with New Testament teachings, like the one about harming your temple. Gentiles are not exempt from that. It wasn't even mentioned in the law of Moses.
One quick note about the symbolism of certain laws, The symbolism about the Saturday Sabbath was not that the gentiles were unclean and common. The symbolism there was about entering into rest, and that was fulfilled through Christ. When a person gets saved, they enter into the Lord's rest through faith, and it is no longer about a day on the calendar. It has nothing to do with unconditional security either. It is simply about putting one's trust in Christ as their savior. Laws dealing with God's standard of holiness do still matter to all Christians today, and Paul makes mention of many of them in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and also in Galatians, and says that those who are guilty shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Those are different from symbolic Old Testament laws.
. No, faith in the blood of Jesus Christ only cleanses the hearts of believers from their inherited Adam's Original Sin, thereby gifting them salvation or eternal life in the kingdom of heaven/God.
Gentile Christians who were formerly mostly lawless people, often still have unclean eyes, hands and feet. A few may even have damaged brains. Hence, the sanctification or cleansing work of the HOLY Spirit of God upon born-again Gentile Christians by the essential or non-burdensome commandments/Law/Word of God.(HEB.10:15-16, 1COR.6:9-11, GAL.5:19-24) New Gentile Christians often need to gradually grow Spiritually from babes-in-Christ to adults-in-Christ by feeding on the Word of God, in order to become mature Christians who are law-abiding, righteous, harmless, "perfect" in conduct and blameless, and able to teach others(2TIM.3:16-17).
P S - It is a fact that Jews are morally better than Gentiles. Hence God has blessed such Jews with wealth and goodness on earth, eg US Jews like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Michael Bloomberg, Sheldon Adelson, etc, even though they do not believe in Jesus Christ.(cf; ROMANS.2:5-10)
Peace.
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Post by justinadams on Jan 17, 2019 6:36:42 GMT -5
Between the Adventists and these jewish movments . They fast accepting beast like chips as okay , they got no idea , because they are on the wrong path . I don't follow jews or faiths , FOLLLOW CHRIST , THEN YOU ON THERIGHT PATH and WONT BE DECIEVED. I HONOR THE FLESH OF NO MAN . ITS FOLLOW AND OBEY CHRIST AND EXALT HIM IN ALL WE DO SAY OR THINK. THAT IS THE ONE TRUE PATH , ALL ELSE IS SINKING SAND . Yes. Sects are prone to err. This is because they have to have a 'reason' to be separate. Does not matter if the reason is silly so long as you can spin a nice doctrine around it along with your letterhead. Most took on the RCC doctrines of SUN-day and use all kinds of man-made reasoning to ignore God's Sabbath. It is so sad how otherwise intelligent people can be hoodwinked. The RCC even issued and edict saying that even the Reformers followed Rome's edicts. They rightfully mocked them. There are many such edicts, but if you believe what someone else said and did not discover the truth for yourself, it really does not matter a hill of beans. Yeshua the Christ IS God. Always was and will always be so. Yeshua gave us the Law.
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Post by John on Jan 17, 2019 6:38:00 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a 'gentile' christian according to Saul. . That is only true wrt salvation, ie both Jews and Gentiles were saved from hell by faith in Jesus Christ alone, and not by doing the good works of keeping the Law.
Wrt the Law, God has different requirements for Jewish and Gentile Christians, as per ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25 and HEB.10:15-16. In the coming 7 year Great Tribulation period, God will be sending His Two Witnesses to save the Jews(REV.11), ie after rapturing/resurrecting His believers(= both Jewish and Gentile Christians) during the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ to earth. Even though most of the Jews have rejected Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Saviour, God will not forget the Jews, who were His chosen people from Abraham onward. I know this is wrong, I mean the part about God having different requirements for Jewish and Gentile Christians. There is only one body, and they do not have different requirements from God.
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles, but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified, by the faith of Christ, and not by the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 3:11-16
There were people in the early church that struggled with this idea, thinking the Jews had to live by a separate set of rules as opposed to the gentiles, and there are teachers on television who promote this false idea today, but it is not true. There is only one church, and we all live under the same covenant.
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in amongst them, and with them partakes of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches: but if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not high-minded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? Romans 11:16-24
There is only one spiritual tree that is the body of Christ, and it is made up of people who are natural Jews who accepted Christ and people from Gentile nations that accepted Christ. There are not two spiritual trees and two spiritual bodies with two sets of rules. We are all under one covenant. It is just that the Jewish believers are the natural branches, and the Gentile believers are graffed into the tree, and are made partakers of God's family through adoption. Still, adopted children are legally as natural children.
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Post by John on Jan 17, 2019 6:46:32 GMT -5
What was discussed in Acts is not about burdensome laws. It is about laws that were in the Old Testament that were given to the Jews to show they were separate from the unclean, and idol worshipping gentile nations around them. They would be circumcised, stay away from what was considered unclean foods, and have to observe the Sabbath day rest. These commandments were never given to the gentiles because they were actually showing the gentiles were unclean. The symbolism changed once the gentiles were brought into the faith. Now, through faith in Christ, they were no longer common or unclean, so there was no reason for them to observe laws that showed them to be common, unclean, and outside the faith. It has nothing to do with laws that were burdensome, though they may have become a burden, and it certainly has nothing to do with New Testament teachings, like the one about harming your temple. Gentiles are not exempt from that. It wasn't even mentioned in the law of Moses.
One quick note about the symbolism of certain laws, The symbolism about the Saturday Sabbath was not that the gentiles were unclean and common. The symbolism there was about entering into rest, and that was fulfilled through Christ. When a person gets saved, they enter into the Lord's rest through faith, and it is no longer about a day on the calendar. It has nothing to do with unconditional security either. It is simply about putting one's trust in Christ as their savior. Laws dealing with God's standard of holiness do still matter to all Christians today, and Paul makes mention of many of them in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and also in Galatians, and says that those who are guilty shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Those are different from symbolic Old Testament laws.
. No, faith in the blood of Jesus Christ only cleanses the hearts of believers from their inherited Adam's Original Sin, thereby gifting them salvation or eternal life in the kingdom of heaven/God.
Gentile Christians who were formerly mostly lawless people, often still have unclean eyes, hands and feet. A few may even have damaged brains. Hence, the sanctification or cleansing work of the HOLY Spirit of God upon born-again Gentile Christians by the essential or non-burdensome commandments/Law/Word of God.(HEB.10:15-16, 1COR.6:9-11, GAL.5:19-24) New Gentile Christians often need to gradually grow Spiritually from babes-in-Christ to adults-in-Christ by feeding on the Word of God, in order to become mature Christians who are law-abiding, righteous, harmless, "perfect" in conduct and blameless, and able to teach others(2TIM.3:16-17).
P S - It is a fact that Jews are morally better than Gentiles. Hence God has blessed such Jews with wealth and goodness on earth, eg US Jews like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Michael Bloomberg, Sheldon Adelson, etc, even though they do not believe in Jesus Christ.(cf; ROMANS.2:5-10)
Peace. There is no way you can prove that claim that Jews are morally better than Gentiles. I don't believe that for one second. Sinners are all unclean in the sight of God, and even the Jews, who were often times seen as following the law of Moses, would often find ways to make it appear to say things it did not to justify their breaking of the law. That is one thing Jesus got onto the Pharisees and Sadducees about. They would create traditions so they could break the law. That is not morally superior. It is just appearance.
The problem with what you are saying, is you take scriptures out of context, like you did with that one in Leviticus that was only about the Priests and only about alcoholic beverages, to make your case. Then you just come up with claims you can't prove, like this one about Jews being morally superior to Gentiles. All of this makes me wonder what type of church you are part of, and where you got your doctrinal positions, because they are not like anything I have come across before.
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Post by John on Jan 17, 2019 6:50:56 GMT -5
Between the Adventists and these jewish movments . They fast accepting beast like chips as okay , they got no idea , because they are on the wrong path . I don't follow jews or faiths , FOLLLOW CHRIST , THEN YOU ON THERIGHT PATH and WONT BE DECIEVED. I HONOR THE FLESH OF NO MAN . ITS FOLLOW AND OBEY CHRIST AND EXALT HIM IN ALL WE DO SAY OR THINK. THAT IS THE ONE TRUE PATH , ALL ELSE IS SINKING SAND . Yes. Sects are prone to err. This is because they have to have a 'reason' to be separate. Does not matter if the reason is silly so long as you can spin a nice doctrine around it along with your letterhead. Most took on the RCC doctrines of SUN-day and use all kinds of man-made reasoning to ignore God's Sabbath. It is so sad how otherwise intelligent people can be hoodwinked. The RCC even issued and edict saying that even the Reformers followed Rome's edicts. They rightfully mocked them. There are many such edicts, but if you believe what someone else said and did not discover the truth for yourself, it really does not matter a hill of beans. Yeshua the Christ IS God. Always was and will always be so. Yeshua gave us the Law. Many of us have rejected the false teaching that the Sabbath was moved to Sunday, but we also know that according to Hebrews chapter 4, the Sabbath for Christians is entering into the Lord's rest through placing our faith in him. It is something we achieve through faith. Those who don't believe cannot enter into that rest, whether they abstain from work on Saturday or Sunday or any other day of the week. The Sabbath rest is fulfilled through faith in Christ, so in my opinion, the RCC is wrong, and so are those saying we must observe a Saturday Sabbath.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 17, 2019 9:43:36 GMT -5
Jews are morally superior to Gentiles, and you’re citing Mark Zuckerberg as evidence? I can’t.
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Post by John on Jan 17, 2019 11:03:32 GMT -5
Jews are morally superior to Gentiles, and you’re citing Mark Zuckerberg as evidence? I can’t. I didn't see anything morally superior about anyone on his list.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 17, 2019 11:50:19 GMT -5
A liberal, anti-Christian American of Jewish heritage invents the single worst psychological weapon of the last fifty years, receives gushing praise from the liberal corporate media, and is heralded as an example of God’s favor on morally upright billionaire Jews. If we’re so concerned about coffee destroying our temple because it causes addiction, then maybe we should take a big fat look at Facebook, and realize that this “morally superior” Jew has thrust upon us a psychosocial poison that makes alcohol look like child’s play. ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp-rj.2016.111203hbr.org/2017/04/a-new-more-rigorous-study-confirms-the-more-you-use-facebook-the-worse-you-feelETA: Here’s a better video. This is Facebook’s former president explaining the dopamine science of social media. Facebook was invented and developed for the purpose of manipulating dopamine cycles in our brains. It causes addiction, depression, shorter attention spans, and an inability to focus on one task at a time.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 17, 2019 12:57:36 GMT -5
Sorry to keep going, but I’m fired up about this. I mentioned on the other thread the lines are being blurred between a food and a drug. We’re also seeing blurred lines on what counts as a drug in terms of consumption. You don’t have to physically take in a substance to be exposed to a drug. Things we see, hear, and experience cause the same cycles in our brain chemistry. Pornography is addictive because it changes the brain: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050060/Music literacy changes the brain: research.gold.ac.uk/51/1/PSY-Stewart2003b_GRO.pdfWe really need to rethink our definition of a drug. Again, this is why the Bible didn’t give us any clear-cut commands on drugs, because drugs are extremely complex. We have social engineers developing products on a national scale that are literally digital drugs. Christians rush out to sign up for the latest cool product, only to realize after the fact that they were sold a lemon. Time after time, Lucy sets up her football for Charlie Brown, and he falls for it. Christians who scream about drinking a glass of wine will go and participate in these products, telling themselves they’re wise to the game, they’re immune to the drug effect, and they’re not one of the fools being manipulated. And then, worst of all, just because a practicing Jew stays faithful to his wife and appears to be rather sober while he’s pushing this poison on us, we’re seeing God’s hand of favor on his life. Un. Be. Lievable. Talk about choking on a gnat while swallowing a camel. Okay, I’m done now, I promise.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 17, 2019 13:36:10 GMT -5
Please let me add my standard disclaimer. If you have an FB account that you keep under tight control for the purpose of ministry, I don’t think you’re sinning. When I speak of foolish participation, I mean actually participating in the full FB experience. A LOT of Christians to this very day are unwittingly addicted to social media.
If you do use a took like FB for ministry, you’ll have to expect what I call the sin tax. A sinful worldly tool can be used for ministry, but its performance will always be somewhat crippled or diminished as if there’s a tax to be paid on it. TV is the same. Some TV preachers can have moderately good results, but usually the tax bill comes in the end.
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Post by Abby-Joy on Jan 17, 2019 16:18:23 GMT -5
Please let me add my standard disclaimer. If you have an FB account that you keep under tight control for the purpose of ministry, I don’t think you’re sinning. When I speak of foolish participation, I mean actually participating in the full FB experience. A LOT of Christians to this very day are unwittingly addicted to social media. If you do use a took like FB for ministry, you’ll have to expect what I call the sin tax. A sinful worldly tool can be used for ministry, but its performance will always be somewhat crippled or diminished as if there’s a tax to be paid on it. TV is the same. Some TV preachers can have moderately good results, but usually the tax bill comes in the end. What you said is the truth!! I despise FaceBook and if it were not for a handful of people I minister to/alongside, I wouldn't be there at all. I spend way more time here at NW than I do there. Zuckerberg is one of the ones pushing and promoting the very technologies that will bring about the MOB... along with Bill Gates and some others.
Jeremiah Chapter 12
1 Righteous [art] thou, O LORD, when I plead with thee: yet let me talk with thee of [thy] judgments: Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? [wherefore] are all they happy that deal very treacherously?
2 Thou hast planted them, yea, they have taken root: they grow, yea, they bring forth fruit: thou [art] near in their mouth, and far from their reins.
Revelation 3:9
“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”
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Post by discipler777 on Jan 18, 2019 3:06:49 GMT -5
Jews are morally superior to Gentiles, and you’re citing Mark Zuckerberg as evidence? I can’t. . I did not say Jews are morally superior to Gentiles. I said Jews are morally better than Gentiles, ie wrt keeping God's Law. In fact, it is lawlessness that will cause some misled "Christians" to not inherit the kingdom of God/heaven. ....... . MATTHEW.7:21-23 (NKJV) = I Never Knew You 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ . P S - Many Law-abiding Jews live well to a ripe old age, even though they will not be saved from hell. . Peace.
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