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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 7:30:24 GMT -5
Some scriptures on being born again:
Jhn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
1Pe 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 30, 2019 7:44:19 GMT -5
Let’s look at the language in Jesus’ comments...
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. — Matthew 9:15
What is a child of the bridechamber? The chamber was the honeymoon suite, and the sons of the chamber were personal attendants who served the couple in their private bedroom.
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. — Mark 2:19
Attendants have work to do when the bridegroom is present.
Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him... The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace. Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth. — Psalm 45:10-11, 13-16
Scripture is consistent on this. I’m not just splitting a few parable hairs.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 8:58:54 GMT -5
Let’s look at the language in Jesus’ comments... And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast. — Matthew 9:15What is a child of the bridechamber? The chamber was the honeymoon suite, and the sons of the chamber were personal attendants who served the couple in their private bedroom. And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. — Mark 2:19Attendants have work to do when the bridegroom is present. Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him... The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold. She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee. With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace. Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth. — Psalm 45:10-11, 13-16Scripture is consistent on this. I’m not just splitting a few parable hairs. In Is. 62:5 we have sons marrying their mother.......ie, heavenly Zion....born in Zion...New Jerusalem. Likewise the children of the bridechamber and the companions are the children and companions of heavenly Zion....where the bride and king's daughter is alluding to New Jerusalem/heavenly Zion.....and is made up of her many members. The Lord is speaking to us in spirit....comparing spiritual things with spiritual.....taking liberties with human language, using poetic license, so to speak......not literal....otherwise we would have to believe that God is talking about incest, which of course He is not. The sons are not literally marrying their literal mother and the king's daughter is not literally being brought unto her literal father the king in marriage. But these are all beautiful allegories that need to be apprehended in Spirit.....with our heart/spirit rather than our natural carnal mind. We need to hear with our spiritual ears what the Spirit is saying.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 30, 2019 9:20:17 GMT -5
Watchful, please. I will ask you one more time. Don’t say everything you disagree with is a product of carnal intellect. I’ve never dismissed your views as fleshly speculation.
Which words are imprecise poetic license, and which ones are held to as literal? Shall we say Paul’s words about Christ and the church are also poetic license not to be taken too seriously? Why is that comment the gold standard on what God “really” means while everything else is fudgy?
Why did Jesus say there were eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom? Was he simply talking about men like Paul not being married? Paul wasn’t a eunuch as far as we know, and he didn’t say in 1 Corinthians 7 that unmarried men had to have a procedure.
Eunuchs worked as bridal attendants, especially in a palace. Men were chosen for this career path at a young age. They were sons of the bridechamber. Esther was attended to by a eunuch named Hegai. Why do we need to know a eunuch arranged the bridal process in Esther? Perhaps because of the spiritual clue it’s giving us?
The theme of the bridal attendant is everywhere in Scripture.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 30, 2019 9:33:13 GMT -5
As for men marrying their mother in Isaiah... we are betrothed to the married couple as a dowry.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 10:03:18 GMT -5
Watchful, please. I will ask you one more time. Don’t say everything you disagree with is a product of carnal intellect. I’ve never dismissed your views as fleshly speculation. Which words are imprecise poetic license, and which ones are held to as literal? Shall we say Paul’s words about Christ and the church are also poetic license not to be taken too seriously? Why is that comment the gold standard on what God “really” means while everything else is fudgy? Why did Jesus say there were eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom? Was he simply talking about men like Paul not being married? Paul wasn’t a eunuch as far as we know, and he didn’t say in 1 Corinthians 7 that unmarried men had to have a procedure. Eunuchs worked as bridal attendants, especially in a palace. Men were chosen for this career path at a young age. They were sons of the bridechamber. Esther was attended to by a eunuch named Hegai. Why do we need to know a eunuch arranged the bridal process in Esther? Perhaps because of the spiritual clue it’s giving us? The theme of the bridal attendant is everywhere in Scripture. There are many parts/members of the Body of Christ, His Bride...and yes depicted throughout scripture as you are mentioning, and each member serves the bride/church/flock in some capacity or other....yes as bridal attendants and eunuchs, etc, preparing 'her' (bride/church) for the wedding....and at the same time all these attendants are part of the bride....members of the same Body, His Bride.
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Post by joseph on Apr 30, 2019 12:57:54 GMT -5
In Is. 62:5 we have sons marrying their mother.......ie, heavenly Zion....born in Zion...New Jerusalem. Likewise the children of the bridechamber and the companions are the children and companions of heavenly Zion....where the bride and king's daughter is alluding to New Jerusalem/heavenly Zion.....and is made up of her many members. The Lord is speaking to us in spirit....comparing spiritual things with spiritual.....taking liberties with human language, using poetic license, so to speak......not literal....otherwise we would have to believe that God is talking about incest, which of course He is not. The sons are not literally marrying their literal mother and the king's daughter is not literally being brought unto her literal father the king in marriage. But these are all beautiful allegories that need to be apprehended in Spirit.....with our heart/spirit rather than our natural carnal mind. We need to hear with our spiritual ears what the Spirit is saying. www . google.com/search?q=the+bride+%22is+not+the+church%22+is+jews&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b In all Scripture, (not in tradition though) , there is a distinct difference in "the body of Christ" vs "the bride of Christ".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 13:52:35 GMT -5
In Is. 62:5 we have sons marrying their mother.......ie, heavenly Zion....born in Zion...New Jerusalem. Likewise the children of the bridechamber and the companions are the children and companions of heavenly Zion....where the bride and king's daughter is alluding to New Jerusalem/heavenly Zion.....and is made up of her many members. The Lord is speaking to us in spirit....comparing spiritual things with spiritual.....taking liberties with human language, using poetic license, so to speak......not literal....otherwise we would have to believe that God is talking about incest, which of course He is not. The sons are not literally marrying their literal mother and the king's daughter is not literally being brought unto her literal father the king in marriage. But these are all beautiful allegories that need to be apprehended in Spirit.....with our heart/spirit rather than our natural carnal mind. We need to hear with our spiritual ears what the Spirit is saying. www . google.com/search?q=the+bride+%22is+not+the+church%22+is+jews&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b In all Scripture, (not in tradition though) , there is a distinct difference in "the body of Christ" vs "the bride of Christ". The link isn't working...would you mind elaborating what you mean? If you mean not everyone within the Body of Christ will be counted as part of the bride then I agree that is what the scriptures say...only those who endure to the end. And there are wheat and tares that grow together until the end.......and it says the Lord Jesus will spew the lukewarm out of His mouth (body). The body of Christ/ekklesia is betrothed to the bridegroom...the bride price was paid (earnest of the Spirit) guaranteeing what is to come. HE is coming to gather His bride and bestow upon her the rest of what has been promised to her upon their union.
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Post by joseph on Apr 30, 2019 14:08:21 GMT -5
www . google.com/search?q=the+bride+%22is+not+the+church%22+is+jews&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b In all Scripture, (not in tradition though) , there is a distinct difference in "the body of Christ" vs "the bride of Christ". The link isn't working...would you mind elaborating what you mean? If you mean not everyone within the Body of Christ will be counted as part of the bride then I agree that is what the scriptures say...only those who endure to the end. And there are wheat and tares that grow together until the end.......and it says the Lord Jesus will spew the lukewarm out of His mouth (body). The body of Christ/ekklesia is betrothed to the bridegroom...the bride price was paid (earnest of the Spirit) guaranteeing what is to come. HE is coming to gather His bride and bestow upon her the rest of what has been promised to her upon their union. Take the spaces out of the url. i.e. >>> "www . google" to www.google This is a common practice on several sites so links aren't 'active' until entered correctly. See the differences revealed from Scripture by Yahuweh there-by , perusing (scanning) and testing the various sites, between the body of Christ, vs the bride of Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 14:32:48 GMT -5
The link isn't working...would you mind elaborating what you mean? If you mean not everyone within the Body of Christ will be counted as part of the bride then I agree that is what the scriptures say...only those who endure to the end. And there are wheat and tares that grow together until the end.......and it says the Lord Jesus will spew the lukewarm out of His mouth (body). The body of Christ/ekklesia is betrothed to the bridegroom...the bride price was paid (earnest of the Spirit) guaranteeing what is to come. HE is coming to gather His bride and bestow upon her the rest of what has been promised to her upon their union. Take the spaces out of the url. i.e. >>> "www . google" to www.google This is a common practice on several sites so links aren't 'active' until entered correctly. See the differences revealed from Scripture by Yahuweh there-by , perusing (scanning) and testing the various sites, between the body of Christ, vs the bride of Christ. thanks...I already tried that twice and and it didn't work.
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Post by joseph on Apr 30, 2019 14:50:59 GMT -5
Take the spaces out of the url. i.e. >>> "www . google" to www.google This is a common practice on several sites so links aren't 'active' until entered correctly. See the differences revealed from Scripture by Yahuweh there-by , perusing (scanning) and testing the various sites, between the body of Christ, vs the bride of Christ. thanks...I already tried that twice and and it didn't work. This is what I did using firefox browser on laptop: in search window putting > the bride "is not the church" is jews www.google.com/search?q=the+bride+%22is+not+the+church%22+is+jews&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b(maybe https:// is needed ? About 5,360,000 results (0.29 seconds) Search Results Web results The "Bride of Christ" Is Not the Church | Owlcation owlcation.com › Humanities › Theology Jan 29, 2015 - The "Bride of Christ" Is Not the Church ... If the Church were "the bride, the Lamb's wife," then the angel in Revelation 21:9-10 would ...... Gentiles invitated to the supper because of the Jews rejection of Christ: Luke 14:21-23. The Bride of Christ – doctrine.org doctrine.org/the-bride-of-christJohn wrote to these seven Jewish assemblies to encourage them in the tribulation they ... The bride of Revelation 19 is Israel, not the Church, the body of Christ, since the Church is ...... By the way, I tend to agree the bride is not the church. (etc etc etc ..... these are just the first two sites, not 'vetted', not selected because they agree with me, but as options to just look like a source to try for the information available, SUBJECT ALWAYS TO CONTINUED TESTING/ PROVING/ VERIFICATION) Hopeful searching with positive expectation , based on decades already passed .....
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 7:54:14 GMT -5
thanks...I already tried that twice and and it didn't work. This is what I did using firefox browser on laptop: in search window putting > the bride "is not the church" is jews www.google.com/search?q=the+bride+%22is+not+the+church%22+is+jews&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b(maybe https:// is needed ? About 5,360,000 results (0.29 seconds) Search Results Web results The "Bride of Christ" Is Not the Church | Owlcation owlcation.com › Humanities › Theology Jan 29, 2015 - The "Bride of Christ" Is Not the Church ... If the Church were "the bride, the Lamb's wife," then the angel in Revelation 21:9-10 would ...... Gentiles invitated to the supper because of the Jews rejection of Christ: Luke 14:21-23. The Bride of Christ – doctrine.org doctrine.org/the-bride-of-christJohn wrote to these seven Jewish assemblies to encourage them in the tribulation they ... The bride of Revelation 19 is Israel, not the Church, the body of Christ, since the Church is ...... By the way, I tend to agree the bride is not the church. (etc etc etc ..... these are just the first two sites, not 'vetted', not selected because they agree with me, but as options to just look like a source to try for the information available, SUBJECT ALWAYS TO CONTINUED TESTING/ PROVING/ VERIFICATION) Hopeful searching with positive expectation , based on decades already passed ..... Eph 5:23-32
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh .
This is a GREAT MYSTERY: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
The church/ekklesia is nothing less than the MYSTERY OF GOD from the FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. This great mystery is hidden throughout the OT scriptures. We tend to take it for granted now, not realizing what a great mystery it is, and what a tremendous privilege (understatement) to belong to it for both Jew and Gentile. Adam & Eve prefigured this mystery….a bride born from his side. And throughout the other scriptures, old and new testaments, we see mention of Gentiles joining together with Israel, as a type and shadow of the future church/ekklesia….the Israel of God…..which is one new man joined together by His Spirit….Jew and Gentile. The Israel of God is His Bride……in union/one with the Son….for now, betrothed. Eph 2:19
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God
Fellowcitizens of what? The geopolitical nation of Israel?...…no, the Israel of God (New Jerusalem). In the book of Ruth it says that Rachel and Leah together built up Israel…a type and shadow of a Jewish and Gentile bride together building up the Israel of God. Jacob laboured for Rachel (Jew) but ended up at first with Leah (Gentile) instead, who was not His first choice so to speak. Then He had to labour another seven years in order to win Rachel (Israel). And together they make up and build the Israel of God….Bride…New Jerusalem….heavenly Zion….the city above which is our mother, not the earthly city which is in slavery. There are promises to Israel, many of which were fulfilled with the first coming of the Messiah, but also in the end, when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, God has promised to remove the blinders from Israel. I believe the current falling away and spewing out is making room for the natural branches to be grafted back in. Into what? The Israel of God, New Jerusalem, Bride, heavenly Zion….through faith in Christ/Messiah. (There has never been nor will there ever be, salvation and membership in the bride/Israel of God apart from Him. Heb 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.)
The book of Revelation speaks to all of who belong to the Israel of God/bride.......and the 'raptero' of the church/Israel of God is depicted with the two witness (Jew & Gentile) when they are called up hither.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 8:33:41 GMT -5
joseph, I don't know how that writer could say that the church is not seen in the book of Revelation. The most obvious rebuttal to that are the seven churches....."churches" in Revelation 2 is the same word ekklesia used in referring to the church all through the New Testament.
But also I believe the two witnesses depict the church.....the Lord does not violate His own word, and He has said that everything must be established on the word of two or three witnesses.....he has very cleverly incorporated two witnesses into His ekklesia...one new man out of TWO...two witnesses, one Jewish, the other Gentile. WE are His witnesses/martyrs. His Spirit makes up the third witness....backing up their witness with His power.
Act 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 1, 2019 8:33:48 GMT -5
Let’s have another look at what John said in Revelation.
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God... And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God — Revelation 21:1-3, 9-10
The bride is not the raptured ekklesia taken to heaven. The bride is New Jerusalem descended from God into the new earth. The wedding feast doesn’t happen when all the saints gather in heaven. It happens in the new earth when the bride is revealed. There’s nothing in Scripture that tells us to expect the marriage feast after all the saints enter heaven. Even looking at Paul’s words about Christ and the church, he didn’t tell them the wedding would happen when they entered God’s presence.
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Post by Sister on May 1, 2019 8:50:39 GMT -5
Thank you yes....which leads to the next question? What exactly is New Jerusalem? Do you view her as a city coming down with lights and buildings?
Yes I do.
That's interesting. I don't see it that way. That city is made up of spirit. It is a city made up of righteousness consisting of God's laws, his teachings and his righteousness. This is not something that can be seen with the eyes, but understood with the heart only. You cannot see righteousness, nor truth, but you can learn it and feel it. The knowledge of the truth is so beautiful it is beyond words, but God compares it to a bride with all her adornments. Faithful, dressed in white (pure) fully decked out and waiting for her husband to join her saying it is done, the day has come. The bride is the righteousness of this city. That same righteousness that Christ clothes us with which this city is made of. The righteousness is the highlight, what the saints are wearing. This big event will happen after Christ has cleaned out Zion and has purified her. Then he will present what he has cleansed to the Father when his job is finished. This big day will happen after the 2nd judgment when all evil is thrown into the lake of fire. All the saints will be there on this day, not half or a quarter of them, but all standing as one, in Christ and in the Father...because of God's righteousness and that same righteousness that Christ taught us to put on. This highlight is at the end, when heaven and earth is melded into one.
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