|
Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 14:04:58 GMT -5
Oh I agree with people getting saved in services and so on, and yes Apostles tend to establish churches, but they are called to perfect the saints, as Paul did over and over again. I even agree with tent meetings. All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints for it says so, but I believe there is a capacity to also be used towards unbelievers such as an Apostle leading many unbelievers to Christ , and then establishing a church from them, but also Apostles are types of overseers of the church. But to say that an evangelist is not there to perfect the saints when it says so, how can you get around what it says? But anyhow I am at least glad that we see at least that they can in some way be used in both capacities. I don’t think anyone is trying to “get around” what the Bible says. It’s just a matter of being confused. If the definition of evangelist is somone who engages the lost to win conversions, then how is this person perfecting the saints? Either evanglist means something else or perfecting the saints means something ele. This forces us to change the definition of evangelist. But we change evangelist to mean teacher, then it just means teacher. So does the word evangelist mean one who witnesses to the lost, or does it not? I have looked up the Strong's concordance and the Thayer's concordance. Strong's mentions the evangelist as one who is a preacher of the gospel, and Thayer mentions evangelist as someone who is a bringer of good tidings. Now I know that all the 5 fold are there own things, but can good tidings be brought both to believer's to perfect the saints, and unbelievers so to bring them to Christ? All of the 5 fold in some way preach the gospel, in their own capacity.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 14:09:27 GMT -5
All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints in their own way, and it is evident that pastors directly do perfect the saints, for they feed the flock, so why can't an evangelist perfect the saints in the way that he does?
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 14:22:53 GMT -5
Oh I agree with people getting saved in services and so on, and yes Apostles tend to establish churches, but they are called to perfect the saints, as Paul did over and over again. I even agree with tent meetings. All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints for it says so, but I believe there is a capacity to also be used towards unbelievers such as an Apostle leading many unbelievers to Christ , and then establishing a church from them, but also Apostles are types of overseers of the church. But to say that an evangelist is not there to perfect the saints when it says so, how can you get around what it says? But anyhow I am at least glad that we see at least that they can in some way be used in both capacities. The 5 fold ministry gifts work together for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying that an Apostle is in place for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying an evangelist is in place for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying a Pastor is there for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying a teacher is there for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying an prophet is there for the perfecting of the saints. The 5 fold ministry gifts work together to do three things: 1 Perfect the saints. 2. Do the work of the ministry 3. Edify the body of Christ
They work together as a team, not individually to accomplish those three purposes. The word evangelist is from the word euagelistes, and it means a missionary, bearer of good tidings, according to Strong's. Help Word Studies says it is someone with a vocational calling to announce the good news of the gospel. If that is not the office of evangelist, what distinguishes it from the other ministry gifts? Reaching the lost is clearly the primary job of an evangelist.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 14:24:59 GMT -5
All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints in their own way, and it is evident that pastors directly do perfect the saints, for they feed the flock, so why can't an evangelist perfect the saints in the way that he does? The 5 of them are responsible for three things getting done, not necessarily all 3, but together, all three get done. That is what I am saying.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 14:38:07 GMT -5
Well at least we know each others positions on these issues.
I am just wondering which Strong's concordance do you use Butero?
Because this is what it says in my Strong's in E-Sword:
(Strong's concordance)
(G2099
εὐαγγελιστής
euaggelistēs
yoo-ang-ghel-is-tace'
From G2097; a preacher of the gospel: - evangelist.
Total KJV occurrences: 3)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 14:48:55 GMT -5
I haven't read this whole thread (cant' keep up on the internet any more) but just want to address the concept of "five-fold ministry"....I know we have all have been influenced by the churches, which are antichrist in structure, but there actually is no mention of that term "five-fold" in scripture. What is biblical is that there are manifold spiritual gifts, and that God's wisdom and grace is mani-fold as expressed through His Body.....and that there is to be no schism in the body, nor respecting of persons. The body of Christ should just function in simplicity.
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. (and where this is not practiced, the church is not edified, does not mature).
|
|
|
Post by Abby-Joy on Jan 21, 2019 15:12:58 GMT -5
Oh I agree with people getting saved in services and so on, and yes Apostles tend to establish churches, but they are called to perfect the saints, as Paul did over and over again. I even agree with tent meetings. All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints for it says so, but I believe there is a capacity to also be used towards unbelievers such as an Apostle leading many unbelievers to Christ , and then establishing a church from them, but also Apostles are types of overseers of the church. But to say that an evangelist is not there to perfect the saints when it says so, how can you get around what it says? But anyhow I am at least glad that we see at least that they can in some way be used in both capacities. The 5 fold ministry gifts work together for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying that an Apostle is in place for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying an evangelist is in place for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying a Pastor is there for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying a teacher is there for the perfecting of the saints. It is not saying an prophet is there for the perfecting of the saints. The 5 fold ministry gifts work together to do three things: 1 Perfect the saints. 2. Do the work of the ministry 3. Edify the body of Christ
They work together as a team, not individually to accomplish those three purposes. The word evangelist is from the word euagelistes, and it means a missionary, bearer of good tidings, according to Strong's. Help Word Studies says it is someone with a vocational calling to announce the good news of the gospel. If that is not the office of evangelist, what distinguishes it from the other ministry gifts? Reaching the lost is clearly the primary job of an evangelist.
All 5 fold are called to perfect the saints in their own way, and it is evident that pastors directly do perfect the saints, for they feed the flock, so why can't an evangelist perfect the saints in the way that he does? The 5 of them are responsible for three things getting done, not necessarily all 3, but together, all three get done. That is what I am saying.
I agree, John. Each of these are different, but all work together .... through the 5 fold ministry. Point 2, doing the work of the ministry, encompasses areas within the church/to believers as well as outside the church, to the lost. That's why we need evangelists. How will they know unless they hear? Someone has to go and bring them in.
Question: How do we differentiate a preacher from an evangelist?
Romans 10:12-17 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
It seems they do a lot of the same thing. The above says that preachers can be sent to bring the Gospel. Would it be safe to say that an evangelist is a preacher that is "sent" ... much like a missionary?
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 21, 2019 15:19:29 GMT -5
Well at least we know each others positions on these issues. I am just wondering which Strong's concordance do you use Butero? Because this is what it says in my Strong's in E-Sword: (Strong's concordance)
(G2099
εὐαγγελιστής
euaggelistēs
yoo-ang-ghel-is-tace'
From G2097; a preacher of the gospel: - evangelist.
Total KJV occurrences: 3)
In this instance, I just punched it in an online search, but I have a physical copy at home I can check it against in a few days.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Jan 21, 2019 18:27:39 GMT -5
Eph 4:13-14 (13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
|
|