karanbac
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Post by karanbac on May 6, 2018 14:36:44 GMT -5
WHO IS BEING SPOKEN ABOUT HERE, GOD OR THE ANTICHRIST?
4 Thus said the LORD my God: "Become shepherd of the flock doomed to slaughter. 5 Those who buy them slaughter them and go unpunished, and those who sell them say, 'Blessed be the LORD, I have become rich,' and their own shepherds have no pity on them. 6 For I will no longer have pity on the inhabitants of this land, declares the LORD. Behold, I will cause each of them to fall into the hand of his neighbor, and each into the hand of his king, and they shall crush the land, and I will deliver none from their hand." 7 So I became the shepherd of the flock doomed to be slaughtered by the sheep traders. And I took two staffs, one I named Favor, the other I named Union. And I tended the sheep. 8 In one month I destroyed the three shepherds. But I became impatient with them, and they also detested me. 9 So I said, "I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die. What is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed. And let those who are left devour the flesh of one another." 10 And I took my staff Favor, and I broke it, annulling the covenant that I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was annulled on that day, and the sheep traders, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the LORD. 12 Then I said to them, "If it seems good to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them." And they weighed out as my wages thirty pieces of silver. 13 Then the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the lordly price at which I was priced by them. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD, to the potter. 14 Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. 15 Then the LORD said to me, "Take once more the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs. - Zechariah 11:4-16D
THE Bible tells us a flock will be slaughtered...who is the flock? Believers or nonbelievers? Read the whole chapter and highlight things are are NOT of God. I believe thru my pastors sermon today, that this is a near/far scenario. Near for the 30 pieces of silver.....now look far into the future for another 30 pieces of silver. God is a covenant MAKER, is “God” here a covenant breaker? Near/Far Dynamics God is always true, the devil is a liar. We will be able to discern the devil when he appears as the antichrist? Our Shepherd knows His sheep, the foolish shepherd here doesnt care if his sheep die, is that God or the antichrist?
No one wants to speak about nonbelievers dying in unbelief yet many will. God tells us what’s going to happen, get us ready to see it and more biblical verse confirm this. Please compare scripture ot scripture and see if you see and understand who God is speaking about in this chapter. I will add my notes to refer to cooresponding verses later today.
Deep thinking with the meaty things of God! How blessed are we?
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Post by Sister on May 7, 2018 3:11:42 GMT -5
Karenbac
Good scriptures. Very very meaty!
The flock are the believers, not in the truth.
Just like Israel in the past, everything slightly repeated. Nothing new under the sun. All is the same but with a twist. What happened to Israel, is happenning the same for us. We learn by what they did, and we are repeating it.
Judah back then represents Gentile Christians today who are in charge of the churches. God is not happy with the Shepherds. They have gotten fat (rich) off the flock. Have treated them like merchandise. These Shepherds are going to lead the flocks to the slaughter by convincing them to get the Mark of the Beast. This is the falling away. They preach the opposite to the truth, and they are hired for money.
Yes....
Israel sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Today the Christian churches are doing the same. They are trading Christ in in for "profits".
When God destroys their pastures (their churches/businesses) they will have nothing left. No more money coming in. They will howl.
Yes, God is the one who will break his covenant with those Shepherds who lead the flocks astray. That Covenant of Christ. They will receive no reward.
Yes, if we are well informed we can. The "antichrist" called the Son of Perdition, or the False Prophet is the son of Satan. One of his children. His chosen one. The devil is not the antichrist, but is behind him, in him. It's all leading to this.
Yes, all the flocks who have been deceived will end up in the False Prophet's hands. He does not care for them. Before him, the other Shepherds who led the sheep to the slaughter, delivered the flock into his hands will be punished sorely. War is coming, and they will be killed by the sword. None spared. These are the foolish shepherds.
My KJV is worded different, but we can work around that.
There are two sticks. Beauty (Favour) and Bands (Union)
Beauty (Favour) = the Gentile Christians (today's Judah) Bands (Union) = Israel.
God is going to break the bond between the Christian churches and Israel. No more donations. No more support.
On a side note: Not only the Christian Churches, but "the West", once Christian nations who were supporting Israel, not only financially, but with their military might, backing them and making Israel feel untouchable, safe and secure, to do as they please had a secret agenda. They have done all this for a purpose, because they want Israel charged with certain crimes so they can take their land back off them and have it for their man, the FP., ....see Balfour Declaration. Look it up. Israel signed a contract that they were to live peacefully with Palestine before they were reinstated around 1948. These Western nations cunningly encouraged Israel to go against that declaration, and used Palestine (hired them behind closed doors) to press at them, so that Israel could react. This is all orchestrated so that they can charge Israel of breaking that contract. It's all dirty deeds done in the dark by the West, and Europe. They have duped Israel and given them false hope. Now they will turn on them, and this is coming soon. The kings of the North will invade and occupy Israel. When this happens, it all begins, because God said he will start punishment with Israel first, then all the nations will follow. So when we see this on the news, it has all begun. Keep watch. (Jer 25)
In a nutshell So God has his staff - Beauty (all in his hands don't forget) he will break that stick into two. The Christian land will be divided. The goats to the left, the sheep to the right. The poor of the flock are those who refuse the beasts system and wait for their Lord. They will be the poor of the earth. No money, no food. Destitute. Christian land divided.
Then God will use his other staff - Bands (Israel) and brake that bond they have with the Christian world/nations, to leave them destitute.
There is another big clue in this chapter. God uses symbolism for us to work out, so that we can interpret perfectly.
A lot of the times when he mentions Jordan..He is speaking of the Jordan river......John baptised Christians in the Jordan river. So God is speaking about the Christian land,...the baptised of Christ.
Zechariah 11:3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
So now, we can determine that God is speaking of the Christian Shepherds, and not the Shepherds of Israel because Israel don't get baptised.
Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
I think this is what Daniel was speaking about. When the little horn comes up, he will uproot three kings. I personally think these kings will be
USA Britain Israel
Satan has used these three to do all his dirty work. The USA is close with Israel, and Britain is brothers with the USA. Their power must be removed....and Israel's of course. If Israel are to be occupied, their leader must step down. This is Satan's style, use then dispose. The 10 Kings will control these three nations now with the FP as their leader. I could be wrong, because there is no way to tell for sure which kings these are, but I think the three Shepherds God will cut off is connected to Daniel
Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Here is the whole chapter in the KJV version so you can compare;
Zechariah 11:1 Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.
Zechariah 11:2 Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.
Zechariah 11:3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
Zechariah 11:4 Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;
Zechariah 11:5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.
Zechariah 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
Zechariah 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.
Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Zechariah 11:9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
Zechariah 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Zechariah 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
Zechariah 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
Zechariah 11:15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
Zechariah 11:16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
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karanbac
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Post by karanbac on May 7, 2018 14:33:46 GMT -5
Karenbac
Good scriptures. Very very meaty!
The flock are the believers, not in the truth. The flock are unbelievers in chapter 11. God has dealt with believers in Chapter 10. Just like Israel in the past, everything slightly repeated. Nothing new under the sun. All is the same but with a twist. What happened to Israel, is happenning the same for us. We learn by what they did, and we are repeating it.Judah back then represents Gentile Christians today who are in charge of the churches. God is not happy with the Shepherds. They have gotten fat (rich) off the flock. Have treated them like merchandise. These Shepherds are going to lead the flocks to the slaughter by convincing them to get the Mark of the Beast. This is the falling away. They preach the opposite to the truth, and they are hired for money.Verse 5 the first half, tells us that God is pleased with believers slaughtering the lambs for His glory. V 5 last half tells us the false prophets aka shepherds have used their pride and greed to their gain and they dont care of the flock perishes. V 6 refers back to Pharoah and his hard heart. He had many chances to listen to God but he refused so God let his hard heart be hardened in sin and destruction came upon Pharoah. V 7 speaks of the achrist as God does not have two staffs. This relates to the 7 years of the ac reign where the staff Favor (or Grace) is the first 3.5 years where the ac is happy and all the world is happy for a time. Then the ac breaks the covenant he made with all the people, unbelievers. God does not break His covenants. John MacArthur notes that sin can overturn Gods states purposes and intented blessings....however, like Gen 50:20 states, what you meant for evil, God will use for good.
Yes....Israel sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Today the Christian churches are doing the same. They are trading Christ in in for "profits".When God destroys their pastures (their churches/businesses) they will have nothing left. No more money coming in. They will howl. The price of a slave was 30 pieces of silver, which Judas was given for having Jesus arrested.
Yes, God is the one who will break his covenant with those Shepherds who lead the flocks astray. That Covenant of Christ. They will receive no reward.
I Yes, if we are well informed we can. The "antichrist" called the Son of Perdition, or the False Prophet is the son of Satan. One of his children. His chosen one. The devil is not the antichrist, but is behind him, in him. It's all leading to this.
Yes, all the flocks who have been deceived will end up in the False Prophet's hands. He does not care for them. Before him, the other Shepherds who led the sheep to the slaughter, delivered the flock into his hands will be punished sorely. War is coming, and they will be killed by the sword. None spared. These are the foolish shepherds.
My KJV is worded different, but we can work around that.
There are two sticks. Beauty (Favour) and Bands (Union)
Beauty (Favour) = the Gentile Christians (today's Judah) Bands (Union) = Israel.
God is going to break the bond between the Christian churches and Israel. No more donations. No more support.
On a side note: Not only the Christian Churches, but "the West", once Christian nations who were supporting Israel, not only financially, but with their military might, backing them and making Israel feel untouchable, safe and secure, to do as they please had a secret agenda. They have done all this for a purpose, because they want Israel charged with certain crimes so they can take their land back off them and have it for their man, the FP., ....see Balfour Declaration. Look it up. Israel signed a contract that they were to live peacefully with Palestine before they were reinstated around 1948. These Western nations cunningly encouraged Israel to go against that declaration, and used Palestine (hired them behind closed doors) to press at them, so that Israel could react. This is all orchestrated so that they can charge Israel of breaking that contract. It's all dirty deeds done in the dark by the West, and Europe. They have duped Israel and given them false hope. Now they will turn on them, and this is coming soon. The kings of the North will invade and occupy Israel. When this happens, it all begins, because God said he will start punishment with Israel first, then all the nations will follow. So when we see this on the news, it has all begun. Keep watch. (Jer 25)
In a nutshell So God has his staff - Beauty (all in his hands don't forget) he will break that stick into two. The Christian land will be divided. The goats to the left, the sheep to the right. The poor of the flock are those who refuse the beasts system and wait for their Lord. They will be the poor of the earth. No money, no food. Destitute. Christian land divided.
Then God will use his other staff - Bands (Israel) and brake that bond they have with the Christian world/nations, to leave them destitute.
There is another big clue in this chapter. God uses symbolism for us to work out, so that we can interpret perfectly.
A lot of the times when he mentions Jordan..He is speaking of the Jordan river......John baptised Christians in the Jordan river. So God is speaking about the Christian land,...the baptised of Christ.
Zechariah 11:3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
So now, we can determine that God is speaking of the Christian Shepherds, and not the Shepherds of Israel because Israel don't get baptised.
Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
I think this is what Daniel was speaking about. When the little horn comes up, he will uproot three kings. I personally think these kings will be
USA Britain Israel
Satan has used these three to do all his dirty work. The USA is close with Israel, and Britain is brothers with the USA. Their power must be removed....and Israel's of course. If Israel are to be occupied, their leader must step down. This is Satan's style, use then dispose. The 10 Kings will control these thre e nations now with the FP as their leader. I could be wrong, because there is no way to tell for sure which kings these are, but I think the three Shepherds God will cut off is connected to Daniel Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Here is the whole chapter in the KJV version so you can compare; Zechariah 11:1 Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. Zechariah 11:2 Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down. Zechariah 11:3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled. Zechariah 11:4 Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter; Zechariah 11:5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not. Zechariah 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them. Zechariah 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me. Zechariah 11:9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. Zechariah 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. Zechariah 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. Zechariah 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. Zechariah 11:15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. Zechariah 11:16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Zechariah 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
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karanbac
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Post by karanbac on May 7, 2018 14:53:41 GMT -5
God is a covenant MAKER, is “God” here a covenant breaker?
Yes, God is the one who will break his covenant with those Shepherds who lead the flocks astray. That Covenant of Christ. They will receive no reward.
I believe its the ac being spoken about here who breaks the peace treaty with the nations. We will be able to discern the devil when he appears as the antichrist? Yes, if we are well informed we can. The "antichrist" called the Son of Perdition, or the False Prophet is the son of Satan. One of his children. His chosen one. The devil is not the antichrist, but is behind him, in him. It's all leading to this.
Our Shepherd knows His sheep, the foolish shepherd - who is the devil in this chapter - here doesnt care if his sheep die, is that God or the antichrist? I believe it His points to the ac. Yes, all the flocks who have been deceived will end up in the False Prophet's hands. He does not care for them. Before him, the other Shepherds who led the sheep to the slaughter, delivered the flock into his hands will be punished sorely. War is coming, and they will be killed by the sword. None spared. These are the foolish shepherds.
My KJV is worded different, but we can work around that.
There are two sticks. Beauty (Favour) and Bands (Union)
Beauty (Favour) = the Gentile Christians (today's Judah) Bands (Union) = Israel.
God is going to break the bond between the Christian churches and Israel. No more donations. No more support.
I believe this points to the ac breaking the covenant and he the antichrist, begin a waging war on believers mid way thru the final 7th week or at about 3.5 years. Favor or Grace of the ac is limited to 3.5 years The Unity of the world of believers and non believers will begin as soon as the mark is needed to sell buy and live under the ac. The goats and sheep division happens at the Judgment Throne.
Since the little horn attacks three horns, there’s no mention of country names and we can speculate who the three countries/horns are but it doesnt matter in the end, the ac is the ruler of the one world order.
The foolish shepherd is the antichrist and at this time the AOD, abomination of desolation will take place, and Matthew 24 comes into play as the people flee to the hills. That shepherd will have Israel still reject Jesus at this time as per John 1:11.
Then we get to the woe placed on the devil. The sword that will strike his arm is the Word of God as in Rev 19:15 Now understanding that his arm is not working or still on the devils body and he’s blind in one eye, this is not a final death blow. The devil and his minions are then thrown into the lake of fire alive as Rev 19:20 states.
My elders are using hermanuetics and expository preaching so that’s why what you have learned is a bit different that what I was taught.
this gives each of us something to think about and dig deeper! Thanks for a great conversation!!
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Post by joseph on Apr 12, 2019 15:48:01 GMT -5
www . studylight.org/commentaries/spe/zechariah-11.html
"Zechariah 11:16-17. For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
These were the shepherds to which Israel was left when they rejected Christ. They did nothing for the people; they were a curse to them, and they themselves were blinded; their own power failed. Well now, what took place actually with regard to Israel takes place with regard to any church that casts off Christ and his teaching; it becomes an anti-Christ; and all has surely been fulfilled in the great anti-Christian system, which is not dead even yet, which destroys and injures; and this day its arm is clean dried up, and its right eye is utterly dimmed. We have a terrible description of what God will do to these who turn away from him. "
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