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Post by discipler777 on Jan 26, 2019 1:04:24 GMT -5
Satan accused Job of loving the Father only because he was blessed with all that he had.
Satan thinks that love can be bought, that without bribes there is no love.
God proved Satan wrong. True love does exist, even when the Lord allows it all to be taken away, and brings us low ....his true children will still love him despite all that's going on. They do not switch masters.
Satan did not know that true love exists from God's children. God showed him and Satan hates this fact. He is so jealous, but most likely still cannot comprehend.
Out of the whole story of Job, this is the main message that I personally get out of it. Job may of sinned a little, but out of distress. Job knew that God was allowing this, but didn't understand why? He didn't hear that conversation between God and Satan. He is only flesh, and there is not one man who ever walked this earth without sin but Christ. If Job was perfect, then Christ died in Vain. No man is perfect. God goes straight into the heart, and in Job's heart was perfect worship and true love. Not a perfect man, but perfect worship. All good intentions. This story was to teach us. The details are given to us, not to Job. He passed the test anyway and the Lord blessed him seven times for what he put him through. Job was expecting death.
. 1JOHN.5:18-19 (NKJV) = 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. . . 1JOHN.5:1-5 = Obedience by Faith
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
. ROMANS.2:5-11 = 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. . . The Word of God says that Satan does not touch believers who have been born of God, love God/Jesus and do not sin or break His commandments/laws/Word. I believe this applied to Job also, ie Job must have ignorantly sinned against God for God to allow Satan to touch or afflict him with suffering. . OTOH, God may allow Satan to touch/afflict believers with suffering from persecution and/or martyrdom as a test of their faith, ie save/keep their non-eternal lives on earth or save/keep their eternal life after martyrdom/persecution,(REV.2:10, MATTHEW.10:16-33) eg when the governments of the world require everyone to receive the Mark Of The Beast(= computer chip implants.?) or face prosecution/persecution/martyrdom.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 7:31:10 GMT -5
An answer comes very simply, that Job was righteous in his own eyes. He was blameless as concerns outward sins, but in his heart there was still some work that needed to be done. Not until he saw the Lord with his own eyes did he repent, when seeing a perfect holy and righteous God made him realize his own righteousness was as filthy rags by comparison.
I think this might even have to do with why when we see Jesus as He is, completely unveiled to us, we will be like Him....it will change us in like manner as Job was changed and humbled to the dust.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 26, 2019 8:21:20 GMT -5
So… I offered examples of people in the Bible who are stricken with sickness so that God might work unto His glory... and here we still are.
*wonders if she should use her powers of invisibility for good or for evil*
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 26, 2019 8:25:34 GMT -5
And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. — Matthew 27:39-43
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 26, 2019 9:00:56 GMT -5
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
And the taskmasters of the people went out, and their officers, and they spake to the people, saying, Thus saith Pharaoh, I will not give you straw. Go ye, get you straw where ye can find it: yet not ought of your work shall be diminished.... And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Lord, wherefore hast thou so evil entreated this people? why is it that thou hast sent me? For since I came to Pharaoh to speak in thy name, he hath done evil to this people; neither hast thou delivered thy people at all.
Then the Lord said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land.
Moses was assumed to be a false prophet because he made things worse and not better.
We really need to stop judging imaginary sins in other people based on outward appearance of sickness or persecution. This attitude often leaves innocent people feeling condemned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 9:16:34 GMT -5
So… I offered examples of people in the Bible who are stricken with sickness so that God might work unto His glory... and here we still are. *wonders if she should use her powers of invisibility for good or for evil* Sorry....I can't keep up on the internet any more like I used to....I don't read all threads or all posts....most of my comments are drop-in comments now. I don't know what others have said, but just offered what came.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 26, 2019 9:20:29 GMT -5
No worries sister watchful ... you were not the one who overlooked everything I said. I understand you were just popping in.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2019 9:51:19 GMT -5
Did Secret Sin Lead To Job's Trials? We are saved by grace, through faith. We stand by faith.
If God have no mercy on us, then how shall we escape?!
"Through the Lord's mercies we are not consumed,
Because His compassions fail not." - Lamentations 3:22
If You, Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?" - Psalm 130:3
Therefore, having been justified by faith,
we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ..." - Romans 5:1
"and He died for all, that those who live should live no
longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again." - 2 Corinthians 5:15
"...You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’
and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”" - Luke 10:27
"And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content." - 1 Timothy 6:8
To make things clear:
I do not mean you can have secret sins in your life, you must repent as soon as possible if you have any.
"He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy." - Proverbs 28:13
"...unless you repent you will all likewise perish." - Luke 13:3
Blessings!
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 26, 2019 9:57:58 GMT -5
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. — Acts 7:55-60
There was no “secret sin” in Stephen’s life to give Satan “access” to kill him.
I could do this all day.
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Post by PG4Him on Jan 26, 2019 10:06:12 GMT -5
Discipler’s view of Job is consistent with his flesh-based OT-centric undertanding of the gospel. Good people rich, bad people poor. Good people healthy, bad people sick. Those who are the richest, healthiest, most well-adjusted people are therefore the ones whom God is most pleased with, and those who are sick, unstable, oppressed, or attacked have clearly incurred God’s wrath. We judge a person’s goodness by his bank account and skin complexion.
Therefore any saint of God who ends up getting attacked must have clearly had it coming. This is why Mark Zuckerberg is better than you are. I know it seems like I’m pettily harping on the Zuckerberg thing, but that comment showed us discipler’s heart. Everything else he has said can be explained through its lens.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 26, 2019 10:31:19 GMT -5
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. — Acts 7:55-60There was no “secret sin” in Stephen’s life to give Satan “access” to kill him. I could do this all day. There was no "secret sin" in his life. He was a man full of faith and with the Holy Spirit.
And he died as a (genuine) Christian.
"Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be
ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter." - 1 Peter 4:16
"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain." - Philippians 1:21
Blessings!
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Post by Abby-Joy on Jan 26, 2019 11:06:22 GMT -5
It's my bed time... I'm not sure why you're here except to always accuse, find fault and argue. That's not what we're about here. I do hope you will be able to seek the truth from God with an humble heart. . .... false accusation by discipler Matthew 5:11-12 11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
1 Peter 3:16-17 16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
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Post by discipler777 on Jan 26, 2019 11:18:09 GMT -5
So… I offered examples of people in the Bible who are stricken with sickness so that God might work unto His glory... and here we still are. *wonders if she should use her powers of invisibility for good or for evil* . . . If you do not repost your post from the other off-topic thread, I can't really reply to your post and fulfill your wish for "Starting the countdown for discipler to throw Paul under the bus in 3...2...1...".. .
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Post by Abby-Joy on Jan 26, 2019 11:27:20 GMT -5
An answer comes very simply, that Job was righteous in his own eyes. He was blameless as concerns outward sins, but in his heart there was still some work that needed to be done. Not until he saw the Lord with his own eyes did he repent, when seeing a perfect holy and righteous God made him realize his own righteousness was as filthy rags by comparison. I think this might even have to do with why when we see Jesus as He is, completely unveiled to us, we will be like Him....it will change us in like manner as Job was changed and humbled to the dust. watchful, really, there is no place in the Bible that states that Job was "righteous in his own eyes." It simply says he was upright, without blame, perfect. In Christ and through faith in His shed blood, we're all righteous, without blame, perfect. Job kept himself and his family covered and was faithful to God. He made sacrifices to God to cover for the sins of himself and his family, and he "eschewed evil." It doesn't mean he was born without sin and had never sinned. As in other scriptures, we read that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
What I see in the interactions between Job and God during his afflictions is that there was relationship, and Job responded with humility. God blessed Job afterward with double what he had before, because he came through that test with God's approval.
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Post by John on Jan 26, 2019 12:13:16 GMT -5
Wow, you really stretch the scriptures to say what you want it to say and totally disregard what God Himself says?!! I think it's a waste of time to even try to help you see the truth when you refuse to see when it's presented plainly in front of your eyes. I pray you will come to a true understanding of God and who He is... it's a rough road when one refuses to humble themselves before God. . That's a false accusation. ....... .
Revelation 12:10 = Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. It was an observation, based on the fact that God made it clear that Job was a perfect and righteous man and these things came upon him in spite of it, and you keep ignoring it. He lived before the law of Moses was given, and where there is no law there is no transgression. He was not guilty of violating a law that didn't exist.
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