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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 13:57:37 GMT -5
I never said he cursed anyone . BUT HE SURE DID say WOE UNTO YOU . he upbraided those cities big time , where he had been, and went back and they had not repented . I tell you it will be worse for YOU on the day of judgment . WORSE . But I never said JESUS cursed them , HE REBUKED MASSIVELY YES . Now put those hands up sister and praise the LORD . Tell Justin I found a video , you show him that Vidoe. I sent it to you all just moments ago . Justin , if you read this , YOU gonna understand why on earth this ol hound has been baying out like its treed four coons . THIS is why I have been warning out against these non correctors and any going under this big love hug family mindst . ITS A SPELL straight from satan . LET no man , woman , child , donkey , fish , tree, cantaloupe , pear , zebra , NOTHING go under it , for all who do will be damned .
? I'm still confused.......I don't know if maybe you were reading too fast and missed the train of thought on this thread frienduff...? An important question came up, whether as believers we should pray against our flesh and blood enemies.....as we seem to see David doing in the Psalms. It's a question that should not be left in doubt....it needs to be made clear that Jesus told us to pray FOR our enemies, not against them, and that we are to do good to our enemies rather than seeking retribution. We are not to judge them lest we be judged, and that we are to forgive lest our heavenly Father not forgive us. We are not wrestling with flesh and blood but with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high (spiritual) places. Where David was praying against enemies in the Psalms, I believe we are to understand that in the light of the NEW covenant and take it as spiritual warfare and praying against enemies in the spiritual realm....not as praying against flesh and blood people. Surely these things are important to remember in light of the question that came up.....? No one on this thread has said or implied that this rules out rebuke......rebuking or prophesying under the unction of the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as asking God in prayer to punish or condemn our flesh and blood enemies. Sister you are loved. We should pray for our enemies , let the confusion be made clear with the cheese of this truth . I have always said , Forgive all who persecute , pray for your enemies do good to those who hate you . Leap for joy dear sister . AND REBUKE with all authority those in disobedience and error .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 17, 2019 14:02:51 GMT -5
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. — Mark 11:25
This doesn’t say ‘any brother.’
Remember the question He asked Jonah twice: “Doest thou well to be angry?”
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 17, 2019 14:10:58 GMT -5
AND REBUKE with all authority those in disobedience and error . And this is exactly what is missing in the church nowadays.
Rebuke and sharp correction is now considered hating by most; if these people could see how they feared God at the start:
"Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear." - 1 Timothy 5:20
Today, many preach a message that makes the sinner stay in error and call it love... How is that love?!
"Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear." - 1 Timothy 5:20
As a result many are getting a false idea of love... It is like letting your children go uncorrected in their ways.
"Chasten your son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction." - Proverbs 19:18
"Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?" - Hebrews 12:9
Correction is needed, rebuke is needed. Or do you think I have never been rebuked?!
I thank the Lord for every correction and rebuke... It is indeed painful, but it is better than walking in error.
"And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;" - Hebrews 12:5
"For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." - Hebrews 12:6
I have to admit I do not enjoy being rebuked, but when it is necessary is always welcome.
"It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise Than for a man to hear the song of fools." - Ecclesiastes 7:5
I prefer that instead of false hugs and kisses. I want the truth, no matter how many rebukes are needed.
Blessings!
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 14:26:34 GMT -5
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. — Mark 11:25 This doesn’t say ‘any brother.’ Remember the question He asked Jonah twice: “Doest thou well to be angry?” This goes hand in hand with Matthew 18:35. "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." There are many scriptures on this subject, but the issue to me is, are we required to forgive someone that isn't sorry. Even God says we must confess our sins to receive His forgiveness in 1 John. I would forgive a sinner that wronged me if they asked me to.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 17, 2019 15:15:01 GMT -5
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. — Mark 11:25 This doesn’t say ‘any brother.’ Remember the question He asked Jonah twice: “Doest thou well to be angry?” This goes hand in hand with Matthew 18:35. "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." There are many scriptures on this subject, but the issue to me is, are we required to forgive someone that isn't sorry. Even God says we must confess our sins to receive His forgiveness in 1 John. I would forgive a sinner that wronged me if they asked me to.
Those verses don’t include a condition that you can wait for an apology. I must forgive ought I have against any, whether they apologize or not. Even when we look at Peter’s question about forgiveness (which he initiated) Jesus’ answer is clearly describing unconditional forgiveness. God wasn’t kidding when He said vengeance is His. He’s the only one who has a right to be offended because it was His law that was broken, not ours. We are jealously angry on His behalf, not our own. We rebuke for the sake of His truth, not our own side of the story. Jesus spoke nothing but what the Father told Him to speak. Even in Psalm 35, we see a prayer for God to uphold good judgment. David didn’t ‘deserve’ to be vindicated; he appealed to God’s justice.
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 15:32:43 GMT -5
This goes hand in hand with Matthew 18:35. "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." There are many scriptures on this subject, but the issue to me is, are we required to forgive someone that isn't sorry. Even God says we must confess our sins to receive His forgiveness in 1 John. I would forgive a sinner that wronged me if they asked me to.
Those verses don’t include a condition that you can wait for an apology. I must forgive ought I have against any, whether they apologize or not. Even when we look at Peter’s question about forgiveness (which he initiated) Jesus’ answer is clearly describing unconditional forgiveness. God wasn’t kidding when He said vengeance is His. He’s the only one who has a right to be offended because it was His law that was broken, not ours. We are jealously angry on His behalf, not our own. We rebuke for the sake of His truth, not our own side of the story. Jesus spoke nothing but what the Father told Him to speak. Even in Psalm 35, we see a prayer for God to uphold good judgment. David didn’t ‘deserve’ to be vindicated; he appealed to God’s justice. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; AND IF HE REPENT, forgive him. Luke 17:3
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 15:46:33 GMT -5
Those verses don’t include a condition that you can wait for an apology. I must forgive ought I have against any, whether they apologize or not. Even when we look at Peter’s question about forgiveness (which he initiated) Jesus’ answer is clearly describing unconditional forgiveness. God wasn’t kidding when He said vengeance is His. He’s the only one who has a right to be offended because it was His law that was broken, not ours. We are jealously angry on His behalf, not our own. We rebuke for the sake of His truth, not our own side of the story. Jesus spoke nothing but what the Father told Him to speak. Even in Psalm 35, we see a prayer for God to uphold good judgment. David didn’t ‘deserve’ to be vindicated; he appealed to God’s justice. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; AND IF HE REPENT, forgive him. Luke 17:3
Watch how wonderful this is . This here shows the true pattern of Correction . Till repentance is made the sinner cannot be received , truly let back into the fold . Yet , on the Cross JESUS said FATHER forigive them , they know not what they do . SO we should forgive those who err against us in heart , BUT till they repent , THEY are not truly forigiven in the sense they are allowed back into the fold or back into Our company . I forgive folks who do me wrong , But that don't mean I KEEP company with them . We cant , TILL THEY DO REPENT . OR else we only helping their error . I hope this makes sense . WE can and should forgive any and all who hate us , do us wrong , if brethren do us wrong we forgive them in heart , BUT not till they repent of that do we accept them back in . NOR are they truly forigiven BY GOD till they make repentance . Thus its them in danger , not us . HOWEVER again we don't accept unrepentant errors and sin BACK INTO the fold , nor do we keep company with them , LEST they repent .
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 15:46:57 GMT -5
After having read a comment by Frienduff, and how we need to follow the Biblical guidelines when someone trespasses against us, I received that good counsel and followed what Jesus said in regard to a transgression against me. I had a brother trespass against me, and I rebuked him. Jesus tells me that if he repents, I must forgive him. I can't go wrong obeying Jesus.
Going back to this issue of forgiveness, Jesus said if you follow this guideline and your brother trespasses against you 7 times in one day, you rebuke him and he repents, you are to forgive him. Does anyone disagree that this is the counsel of Jesus?
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 15:50:21 GMT -5
AND REBUKE with all authority those in disobedience and error . And this is exactly what is missing in the church nowadays.
Rebuke and sharp correction is now considered hating by most; if these people could see how they feared God at the start:
"Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear." - 1 Timothy 5:20
Today, many preach a message that makes the sinner stay in error and call it love... How is that love?!
"Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear." - 1 Timothy 5:20
"...Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith..." - Titus 1:13
As a result many are getting a false idea of love... It is like letting your children go uncorrected in their ways.
"Chasten your son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction." - Proverbs 19:18
"Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?" - Hebrews 12:9
Correction is needed, rebuke is needed. Or do you think I have never been rebuked?!
I thank the Lord for every correction and rebuke... It is indeed painful, but it is better than walking in error.
"And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;" - Hebrews 12:5
"For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." - Hebrews 12:6
I have to admit I do not enjoy being rebuked, but when it is necessary is always welcome.
"It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise Than for a man to hear the song of fools." - Ecclesiastes 7:5
I prefer that instead of false hugs and kisses. I want the truth, no matter how many rebukes are needed.
Blessings!SPOT ON RIGHT LETTERS . Who hates the one who allows one to remain in darkness, yet hugs and loves them and says all is well. Or is it the one concerned for their soul and does all to rebuke and correct , IN HOPES they do repent and can be restored . THEY the haters and yet they accuse US of being the haters . But any LOVE that can allow folks to remain in bondage and darkness , IS NOT LOVE , its murder , its hate and the law itself backs this up . DO not hate your brother IN YOUR HEART , in any way , any way , REBUKE THEM and do not ALLOW sin upon them . YEAH . ITS hate to NOT CORRECT .
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 15:58:11 GMT -5
Here is an interesting verse.
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
John 20:23
Jesus and Stephen remitted the sins of unrepentant people, but they didn't have to. Biblically, is this correct or not?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 17, 2019 16:09:22 GMT -5
We’re starting to split some really fine hairs here. Jesus’ counsel in Luke deals with restoration after rebuke. You can’t just rebuke and rebuke until your anger is cooled. Rebuke is not punishment. If someone apologizes in the middle of a rebuke, I have to drop it.
It’s impossible to bless an enemy I secretly hate in my heart. It’s impossible to heap coals on someone’s head if I’m only mechanically being nice them on outward deeds. True unfeigned love — toward an enemy or anyone else — doesn’t hold bitterness. It’s impossible to hold a grudge over wrongdoing and say you’re not bitter. Grudges are bitter by definition.
For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you. — 2 Corinthians 2:4
Rebuke is not an anger release. It’s sadness and concern for this other person who is sinning. Whether they sin against us or someone else, it’s their everlasting soul on the line, not our feelings. Using rebuke to extort a a personal apology is wrong.
Those who REPENT are rehabilitated back in fellowship, never to hear about the incident again. Those who don’t repent become an enemy we are commanded to bless and not curse.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Feb 17, 2019 16:15:56 GMT -5
Here is an interesting verse.
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
John 20:23
Jesus and Stephen remitted the sins of unrepentant people, but they didn't have to. Biblically, is this correct or not?
Why did Jesus and Stephen do that instead of using their privilege to retain sin?
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 16:21:39 GMT -5
We’re starting to split some really fine hairs here. Jesus’ counsel in Luke deals with restoration after rebuke. You can’t just rebuke and rebuke until your anger is cooled. Rebuke is not punishment. If someone apologizes in the middle of a rebuke, I have to drop it. It’s impossible to bless an enemy I secretly hate in my heart. It’s impossible to heap coals on someone’s head if I’m only mechanically being nice them on outward deeds. True unfeigned love — toward an enemy or anyone else — doesn’t hold bitterness. It’s impossible to hold a grudge over wrongdoing and say you’re not bitter. Grudges are bitter by definition. For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you. — 2 Corinthians 2:4Rebuke is not an anger release. It’s sadness and concern for this other person who is sinning. Whether they sin against us or someone else, it’s their everlasting soul on the line, not our feelings. Using rebuke to extort a a personal apology is wrong. Those who REPENT are rehabilitated back in fellowship, never to hear about the incident again. Those who don’t repent become an enemy we are commanded to bless and not curse. If a person repents, we should drop the issue immediately, and should not hold a grudge. Nobody is arguing with that. I don't believe in holding grudges against a repentant sinner.
As far as rebuke goes against someone that trespasses against you, there is no extortion at all here. You rebuke them, they repent or they don't. I would agree with you that you don't need to continually rebuke them. It is a one time thing. That is one thing that I took from what Jesus said. One rebuke, and drop it. There is no need to do anything more. The ball is in the other person's court. The matter is closed on this side of heaven. Clearly, the Lord gives us the right to choose to forgive or not to forgive if they don't repent or he wouldn't have worded things as he did.
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 16:23:19 GMT -5
Here is an interesting verse.
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
John 20:23
Jesus and Stephen remitted the sins of unrepentant people, but they didn't have to. Biblically, is this correct or not?
Why did Jesus and Stephen do that instead of using their privilege to retain sin? They were concerned about their eternal souls. The point is, that Jesus didn't command Stephen or anyone else to pray such a prayer or to forgive those people. It was a personal choice. If this was not so, how can there be a scripture that says we can remit or retain a sin against us?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 16:26:09 GMT -5
? I'm still confused.......I don't know if maybe you were reading too fast and missed the train of thought on this thread frienduff...? An important question came up, whether as believers we should pray against our flesh and blood enemies.....as we seem to see David doing in the Psalms. It's a question that should not be left in doubt....it needs to be made clear that Jesus told us to pray FOR our enemies, not against them, and that we are to do good to our enemies rather than seeking retribution. We are not to judge them lest we be judged, and that we are to forgive lest our heavenly Father not forgive us. We are not wrestling with flesh and blood but with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high (spiritual) places. Where David was praying against enemies in the Psalms, I believe we are to understand that in the light of the NEW covenant and take it as spiritual warfare and praying against enemies in the spiritual realm....not as praying against flesh and blood people. Surely these things are important to remember in light of the question that came up.....? No one on this thread has said or implied that this rules out rebuke......rebuking or prophesying under the unction of the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as asking God in prayer to punish or condemn our flesh and blood enemies. Sister you are loved. We should pray for our enemies , let the confusion be made clear with the cheese of this truth . I have always said , Forgive all who persecute , pray for your enemies do good to those who hate you . Leap for joy dear sister . AND REBUKE with all authority those in disobedience and error .
Amen...Jesus did not pray against anyone and nor should we. He left all judgment to the Father, as we also are to do.
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