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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 16:30:36 GMT -5
Sister you are loved. We should pray for our enemies , let the confusion be made clear with the cheese of this truth . I have always said , Forgive all who persecute , pray for your enemies do good to those who hate you . Leap for joy dear sister . AND REBUKE with all authority those in disobedience and error .
Amen...Jesus did not pray against anyone and nor should we. He left all judgment to the Father, as we also are to do. All judgment is left in Jesus' hands that we will honor him. He is the final judge, and he knows all the facts and he knows everyone's heart, so his judgement will be just.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 16:34:11 GMT -5
It's really coming to light that there is more than one sense to the word forgiveness in scripture. We need to rightly divide what sense each scripture is talking about.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 16:39:11 GMT -5
Here is an interesting verse.
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
John 20:23
Jesus and Stephen remitted the sins of unrepentant people, but they didn't have to. Biblically, is this correct or not?
Why did Jesus and Stephen do that instead of using their privilege to retain sin? Because the desire is they repent . Stephen nor others , Nor Christ DESIRED the destruction of any , BUT rather they repent . But even as much as Stephen did rebuke and warn , he still did not desire their death . HOWEVER death it will be upon all who repent not . JESUS KNEW THAT , so did the apostels . Thus we don't keep company with brethren who err and wont repent . We do all to correct and if they heed not , they get cast out , WHERE GOD WILL JUDGE THEM and perhaps they will repent or perhaps they wont . But we no sit and hug folks to hell fire . The desire , even if one gets delivered over unto destruction of flesh , IS we hope they repent . We can deliver folks over unto destruction of the flesh . The church can use the ROD of correction and in fact , IT MUST . Or two things occur , they wont be saved , they will feel accepted IN their sin , and the one who does that , WILL answer to GOD on JUDGEMENT DAY Does that sound scary . GOOD IT BETTER . because if we can allow brethren to sin and not correct , GUESS WHOSE BLOOD is on our hands , AND GUESS who GOD will hold accountable . Both them and those who did not correct . OH YES , let it put the FEAR OF GOD in folks and the LOVE that will spring forth will do all to correct , rebuke , build up . I am done with this system I see today . I am flat out and have been flat out done with it . CORRECTION and BUILDING UP TIME folks . NO hugs and lets just have unity FOR THIS MAN . I had rather be dead . OH I hope that encouraged you all . Now put those hands up and let out a praise of JOY to the LORD .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 16:49:32 GMT -5
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. — Mark 11:25 This doesn’t say ‘any brother.’ Remember the question He asked Jonah twice: “Doest thou well to be angry?” Here, lets add to this some more scripture . PRAY for those who hate you and persecute you . DO GOOD , Give to them . BLESS THEM and curse not . JESUS said this about all who do us wrong . LOVE ye your enemies do good unto those who persecute you and hate you . BLESS and curse not .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 16:51:58 GMT -5
FOR WHILE even we were enemies , GOD BLESSED US WITH HIS GRACE . HE DIDNT curse us , HE DIDNT do evil unto us HE drew us out of the waters ofgreat darkness. And forgave us while we were enemies , while we were enemies he reconciled us to Christ . SO let all go and do likewise . BLESS your enemies by saying JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY , REPENT and BELIEVE . BLESS those who do you wrong , Correct them of their error , AS GOD CORRECTED US FROM OURS . RICK warren WILL NOT APPROVE . BUT I don't heed men of belial. CORRECT , CORRECT , AND CORRECT .
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 16:59:24 GMT -5
Hopefully, this should show beyond any doubt the choice to forgive an unrepentant sinner is ours to make. We see back to back verses where Paul asks God to judge one man according to his works, but not to hold others sins against them. 2 Timothy 4:14-16.
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the LORD reward him according to his works. Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
Paul prays that God be merciful to those that forsook him because of Alexander, but asks that Alexander be rewarded according to his works. He also warns others to beware of Alexander.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Feb 17, 2019 17:08:24 GMT -5
Paul prays that God be merciful to those that forsook him because of Alexander, but asks that Alexander be rewarded according to his works. He also warns others to beware of Alexander.
But Paul was not harboring bitterness or hate towards him.
That is the difference, I believe.
When you harbor bitterness you cannot truly love the person and desires the worst to them.
It should not be like this, I believe, but we should always hope they repent and be reconciled to God.
And when they need some help, and we are the only one to do it, we must be merciful.
"But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?
For even sinners love those who love them." - Luke 6:32
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 17:11:38 GMT -5
Hopefully, this should show beyond any doubt the choice to forgive an unrepentant sinner is ours to make. We see back to back verses where Paul asks God to judge one man according to his works, but not to hold others sins against them. 2 Timothy 4:14-16.
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the LORD reward him according to his works. Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
Paul prays that God be merciful to those that forsook him because of Alexander, but asks that Alexander be rewarded according to his works. He also warns others to beware of Alexander.
Butero I just quaotedthis , but put worthy moderator in its place on letters thread . THEN I come over here and find this . YES , THE LORD reward them according to their works , in no way does this mean we desire hell fire for them, WE KNOW the LORD Knows all things . In fact , punishments can often lead to REPENTANCE .
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 17:17:00 GMT -5
Paul prays that God be merciful to those that forsook him because of Alexander, but asks that Alexander be rewarded according to his works. He also warns others to beware of Alexander.
But Paul was not harboring bitterness or hate towards him.
That is the difference, I believe.
When you harbor bitterness you cannot truly love the person and desires the worst to them.
It should not be like this, I believe, but we should always hope they repent and be reconciled to God.
And when they need some help, and we are the only one to do it, we must be merciful.
"But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?
For even sinners love those who love them." - Luke 6:32 That is a legitimate concern, and I am not arguing against it.
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 17:22:08 GMT -5
Hopefully, this should show beyond any doubt the choice to forgive an unrepentant sinner is ours to make. We see back to back verses where Paul asks God to judge one man according to his works, but not to hold others sins against them. 2 Timothy 4:14-16.
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the LORD reward him according to his works. Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
Paul prays that God be merciful to those that forsook him because of Alexander, but asks that Alexander be rewarded according to his works. He also warns others to beware of Alexander.
Butero I just quaotedthis , but put worthy moderator in its place on letters thread . THEN I come over here and find this . YES , THE LORD reward them according to their works , in no way does this mean we desire hell fire for them, WE KNOW the LORD Knows all things . In fact , punishments can often lead to REPENTANCE .
There is a balance here, and I will consider your words and Letters words too, but if Alexander is to be rewarded according to his works, what does that mean in practical terms? I am not ignoring any of you. It was because of Frienduff that I changed my approach already.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 17:27:29 GMT -5
Butero I just quaotedthis , but put worthy moderator in its place on letters thread . THEN I come over here and find this . YES , THE LORD reward them according to their works , in no way does this mean we desire hell fire for them, WE KNOW the LORD Knows all things . In fact , punishments can often lead to REPENTANCE .
There is a balance here, and I will consider your words and Letters words too, but if Alexander is to be rewarded according to his works, what does that mean in practical terms? I am not ignoring any of you. It was because of Frienduff that I changed my approach already.
ITs better we get chastened NOW for any error THAN be left to our own accord and be punished ON THE DAY of judgment . Alexander continuously RESISTED the TRUTH and caused and kept causing continuous harm to any who did defend truth and even paul . I can assure you , whatever this means , Alexander was going to reap payment . BUT I do not believe in any way PAUL was hoping that man would get sent to the lake of fire . THAT is why he said THE LORD , not me , THE LORD reward him according to his works .
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 17:32:38 GMT -5
There is a balance here, and I will consider your words and Letters words too, but if Alexander is to be rewarded according to his works, what does that mean in practical terms? I am not ignoring any of you. It was because of Frienduff that I changed my approach already.
ITs better we get chastened NOW for any error THAN be left to our own accord and be punished ON THE DAY of judgment . Alexander continuously RESISTED the TRUTH and caused and kept causing continuous harm to any who did defend truth and even paul . I can assure you , whatever this means , Alexander was going to reap payment . BUT I do not believe in any way PAUL was hoping that man would get sent to the lake of fire . THAT is why he said THE LORD , not me , THE LORD reward him according to his works .
Thank you Frienduff for your wisdom. You have been a huge help all around.
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 17:38:00 GMT -5
In addition to Frienduff, thanks to Letters, Candance, Watchful, Cletus, Giller and anyone who has posted in this thread thus far, not only about forgiveness, but about how to look at the Psalms. I am planning to spend more time in Psalms, so this conversation has been very instructive.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 17, 2019 17:48:42 GMT -5
ITs better we get chastened NOW for any error THAN be left to our own accord and be punished ON THE DAY of judgment . Alexander continuously RESISTED the TRUTH and caused and kept causing continuous harm to any who did defend truth and even paul . I can assure you , whatever this means , Alexander was going to reap payment . BUT I do not believe in any way PAUL was hoping that man would get sent to the lake of fire . THAT is why he said THE LORD , not me , THE LORD reward him according to his works .
Thank you Frienduff for your wisdom. You have been a huge help all around.
WE got a massive war brewing butero . A massive one . This pope and his ways are being accepted like nothing I have ever seen . We must mount up as ONE mind in the LORD and be fully built up and prepared to contend for the true faith . This world , this big brother hood world fraternity this pope and many believe in , Is bad news with a double death sentence attached to all who shall follow it . I don't know about everyone , but this world and its darkness that I too was once a part of , never cared one ounce for any . It sees us as dung . This big world fraternity , its author cares not for the world , and specially not for the lambs . I aint going out , bowing to this beast , I aint bowing one knee to it or its men . WE BOW TO CHRIST ALONE so armour up and fight back . FIGHT back with pure and holy words of the LORD , with prayers and all spiritual warfare . Forgive them , but never conform to their ways . Let not a lamb one even fear this system or its men or its leader . FAR GREATER IS CHRIST and far greater is HE , CHRIST , who is in us than they of this world . Many lambs will die in the days ahead and this is A FACT. BUT THAT DONT MEAN For one second we gotta fear this adversary nor his men , nor anything they can do . Crowns only get handed out , TO THOSE WHO REMAINED FAITHFUL TO CHRIST . MOUNT UP my friends , cause its only gonna get way worse , much more deception and many more deceivers shall arise . WE BOW THE KNEE TO JESUS ONLY and we do all with the hopes some will be saved .
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Post by John on Feb 17, 2019 18:03:22 GMT -5
Plead my cause, O LORD, with them that strive with me: fight against them that fight against me. Take hold of shield and buckler, and stand up for mine help. Draw out also the spear, and stop the way against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I am thy salvation. Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt. Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them. Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them. For without cause have they hid for me their net in a pit, which without cause they have digged for my soul. Let destruction come upon him at unawares; and let his net that he hath hid catch himself: into that very destruction let him fall. And my soul shall be joyful in the LORD: it shall rejoice in his salvation. All my bones shall say, LORD, who is like unto thee, which deliverest the poor from him that is too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from him that spoileth him?
False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge things that I knew not. They rewarded me evil for good to the spoiling of my soul. But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. I behaved myself as though he had been my friend or brother: I bowed down heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother. But in mine adversity they rejoiced, and gathered themselves together: yea, the abjects gathered themselves together against me, and I knew it not; they did tear me, and ceased not: With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. Lord, how long wilt thou look on? rescue my soul from their destructions, my darling from the lions. I will give thee thanks in the great congregation: I will praise thee among much people. Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause. For they speak not peace: but they devise deceitful matters against them that are quiet in the land. Yea, they opened their mouth wide against me, and said, Aha, aha, our eye hath seen it. This thou hast seen, O LORD: keep not silence: O Lord, be not far from me. Stir up thyself, and awake to my judgment, even unto my cause, my God and my Lord.
Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me. Let them not say, We have swallowed him up. Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonor that magnify themselves against me. Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long. I feel as though an actual discussion of this Psalm got lost as a result of personal issues over forgiving our enemies. I accept most of the blame for derailing my own thread, but I want to bring back the actual Psalm. If anyone wants to discuss the meaning through David's eyes as best we can deduce or what it means to us, feel free.
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