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Post by 2fw8212a on May 10, 2018 12:15:36 GMT -5
What about it being a shame for a man to wear long hair or for a woman to cut her hair short? This indeed is natural, and I get uncomfortable with long hair.What about not fellowshiping or even associating with brothers who are living in willful sin? (1 Corinthians 5:9-13) Many still do that because of their ignorance. For me it is sad when I see such case.
Some believers who live in willful sin are so deceived that you cannot even treat them as believers, but unbelievers who need the veil removed. "Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world." - 1 Corinthians 5:10But some are just indeed ignorant, they do not live in willful sin but they may have some unpleasant conversation with those who do."Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”" - 2 Timothy 2:19But each one with their own conscience."...For why is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience?" - 1 Corinthians 10:29What about women being forbidden to teach doctrine? (So much for all those women "pastors".) What about women being forbidden to speak and keeping silent in the churches, and it being a shame for a woman to speak in church? This is another thing I will let for each one's decision.
Because if such thing would be implemented in its fullness, then all the women would not be speaking on the internet.
And especially on this forum, where most are women.
Additionally, I do not believe it is a salvation issue. I know you're not saying it is, but I feel you are being too strong over this.
Just live and do as you are led by the Holy Spirit."For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well." - Acts 15:28-29And the sad part is that many people are simply failing on the necessary things. This is something to be really worried about.
I am not saying that we should willfully ignore and disobey the rules we must follow inside the church; but we should not forget mercy as well, when it is applicable.
God bless you in Jesus' name!
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Post by frienduff on May 10, 2018 12:47:43 GMT -5
That simply means no woman can LEAD the church , they cannot have certain positions . THEIR is reason for this . GOD set up things the way HE set them up . Their can be no women pastors . This is fact . They cannot teach or USURP AUTHORITY over the man. Deacons , bishops , pastors etc USRUP authority . We must keep the pattern GOD set first . Paul was the one who remninded why this is . SISTER lights is spot on right . Sister lights is not ursurping authority over anyone when she says the things she does . SHE is not my pastor , She is simply encouraging us on . But no woman can be in that position of authority , like a deacon , bishop , apostle, preacher etc. those positions are men only . women can prophesy , YOU BET they can . they can share knowledge , YOU BET THEY CAN . so anything being done on internet IS okay for all our ladies . None of them are saying I AM OVER YOU . they just sharing truth is all. And all whether male for female CAN DO THAT .
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Post by frienduff on May 10, 2018 12:55:32 GMT -5
The thing is , when anyone does anything OUTSIDE the pattern GOD set up , Christ set up , the church set up . ITS PRIDEFUL and pride KILLS. it even says let not a novice teach . Yet they do this too. its why we got so many jell haired kids teaching chuches and what they teach them is just OFF the wall. NO man , no man should lead a church PEROID , until he is LONG TIME matured up . Until one is mature and have had their senses exercised fully then they go about and train up the younger and so on it goes . I don't know how many times I hear of one getting saved and all of a sudden THEY a pastor. One of the most extreme cases I have to admit I ever seen was with this young man . He got his ordination ON LINE . the guy did not know a THING about the bible and this was so evident when I was talking to him . But man he was all pumped up and excited and just showed off his license . The guy did not know a thing , in fact he was not even saved . It was evident in his lifestyle . still chasing women and etc . That was an extreme case I admit . but even those who just hop up , NO SIRS and NO MAMS. Any preacher who was truly called , IS GOING to love ONE THING , THAT BIBLE and he will be ENGRAIEND DEEP IN IT . before he sets foot up anywhere . WE must return to the pattern the early church taught , WE MUST .
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 10, 2018 13:23:55 GMT -5
That simply means no woman can LEAD the church I never saw such a case, of women really leading the church... But I have seen some who preach, and they are not alone; but married with a male pastor.
I cannot condemn. But as long as they are preaching truth, I do not see a problem.But no woman can be in that position of authority , like a deacon , bishop , apostle, preacher etc. Maybe because you just do not decide to become one, or God called you, or He did not.
And all those who were genuinely called will have all the fruits following them: truth and love."Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24It seems like judging is far more complex than we think it is.
But the rule still stands: you shall know them by their fruits.
Because it would profit nothing if you have everything setup according to the rules, but have not the Spirit.
Again..."Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24
God bless you in Jesus' name!
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Post by tlsitd on May 10, 2018 13:48:59 GMT -5
Good is the One who invented concepts like right and good. He created them. He defines them. He isn’t God because He’s right; He’s right because He’s God. Humanistic minds want to audition various views of God until they find a winner, one that conveniently agrees with their personal opinions of right and good. They see themselves as the arbiters of moral good. They think they are the judge, and God must somehow submit to them. Yep. If God doesn't fit what people think He should be like (and Christians are guilty of this), they try to change Him to fit what they want Him to be and think He should be, rather than asking Him to help them to understand His reasons and give them His perspective (which is the right one), and accepting that He is God and not them. He is pleased to give us explanations of why He does and commands many things, because He wants to and because He loves us and knows that human beings want to know the why of things. But He's not obligated to do so, or to give an account to man for His ways. He created us with minds to question and to desire and seek understanding and to try to make sense of things, so it's natural to question God's ways; but it's not right to criticize them, making ourselves His judge. We can, and should, worship God as much for what we do not know as for what we do. I know I do. The book of Job is a good one to read as a reminder of this. Think of all that we do not know or understand about the planet we live on and the universe we live in. How much vaster is the Creator than His creation? The very thought of criticizing, disputing with or judging God is preposterous. We are not in any way qualified to do so, either in our righteousness, or in our authority, or in our natural capacity to reason and understand. Only pride persuades us otherwise, an unfortunate product of our sinful nature that we have to contend with.
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Post by tlsitd on May 10, 2018 14:04:56 GMT -5
That simply means no woman can LEAD the church , they cannot have certain positions . THEIR is reason for this . GOD set up things the way HE set them up . Their can be no women pastors . This is fact . They cannot teach or USURP AUTHORITY over the man. Deacons , bishops , pastors etc USRUP authority . We must keep the pattern GOD set first . Paul was the one who remninded why this is . SISTER lights is spot on right . Sister lights is not ursurping authority over anyone when she says the things she does . SHE is not my pastor , She is simply encouraging us on . But no woman can be in that position of authority , like a deacon , bishop , apostle, preacher etc. those positions are men only . women can prophesy , YOU BET they can . they can share knowledge , YOU BET THEY CAN . so anything being done on internet IS okay for all our ladies . None of them are saying I AM OVER YOU . they just sharing truth is all. And all whether male for female CAN DO THAT . I share what understanding the Lord has given me for the benefit of others as my faith permits, and am careful not to go beyond what the Lord gives me His peace to do. (He checks my spirit when something isn't right, and I'm always attentive to His guidance and His desires, and careful not to be rash.) It's impossible to exhort or warn other believers without using the Scriptures. It's impossible to explain prophecy without using the Scriptures. It's impossible to fellowship with other Christians without the Scriptures. So I advise my sisters in Christ to do the same thing that I do myself: Follow the Spirit's leading with regard to what you share and how you share it, and make sure that you have His peace about it. (The one who has doubts isn't doing what she is doing by faith and should refrain until she has His peace about what she has in mind to say.) And remember that we will all have to give an account to Jesus for what we did and why. Keep Him in mind, pray for guidance, obey His commands, and do as the faith He gives you directs.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 16:49:16 GMT -5
I think I understand what Letters is saying....it's not a sin question, it's a rule question, and exceptions can sometimes be made to rules...in a time of need or for God's purposes. I think Deborah was one such exception if I'm not mistaken. See if this seems right or not....I believe from scripture where it says women must remain silent is talking about idle chatter and asking of questions, not to disrupt the flow of the meetings...as well not to teach. It obviously can't mean literally silent all the time, since it is permitted for a woman to pray and prophesy. Only teaching is not allowed and assuming leadership over men in the church...because teaching by it's nature is sort of assuming authority over the ones they are teaching. Whereas prophesying and possibly even preaching (if it is genuinely by the Holy Spirit) are bringing HIS word and authority. Please help my memory here, but I think the bible only forbids women teaching, not preaching...?
This is obviously in context of teaching here....let the woman learn...not teach...
1Ti 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Preaching is a different thing than teaching....preaching is in the spirit, while teaching is to help the understanding. Preaching can be done without being in a leadership role like pastor or elder. Women certainly do preach the gospel on mission fields especially. I would not recommend a woman to preach in a church that would be offended by that though, just to avoid a stumbling block.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 17:00:15 GMT -5
<< He isn’t God because He’s right; He’s right because He’s God. >> I agree.....BUT He is also right.......and good and holy. And kind....thankfully. I just don't like it when people give the Lord a bad rap and think He is evil, so that is why I like to ask Him for understanding of things that I don't understand, so that I can represent Him rightly when I'm talking to others.
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karanbac
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Post by karanbac on May 10, 2018 18:13:35 GMT -5
They have broken the 2nd commandment, making a god to their own preferences...sad.
If God doesn't fit what people think He should be like (and Christians are guilty of this), they try to change Him to fit what they want Him to be and think He should be, rather than asking Him to help them to understand His reasons and give them His perspective (which is the right one), and accepting that He is God and not them.
We need to submit to GOD He doesnt submit to anyone.... People get this so wrong...
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Post by frienduff on May 10, 2018 18:41:38 GMT -5
That simply means no woman can LEAD the church , they cannot have certain positions . THEIR is reason for this . GOD set up things the way HE set them up . Their can be no women pastors . This is fact . They cannot teach or USURP AUTHORITY over the man. Deacons , bishops , pastors etc USRUP authority . We must keep the pattern GOD set first . Paul was the one who remninded why this is . SISTER lights is spot on right . Sister lights is not ursurping authority over anyone when she says the things she does . SHE is not my pastor , She is simply encouraging us on . But no woman can be in that position of authority , like a deacon , bishop , apostle, preacher etc. those positions are men only . women can prophesy , YOU BET they can . they can share knowledge , YOU BET THEY CAN . so anything being done on internet IS okay for all our ladies . None of them are saying I AM OVER YOU . they just sharing truth is all. And all whether male for female CAN DO THAT . I share what understanding the Lord has given me for the benefit of others as my faith permits, and am careful not to go beyond what the Lord gives me His peace to do. (He checks my spirit when something isn't right, and I'm always attentive to His guidance and His desires, and careful not to be rash.) It's impossible to exhort or warn other believers without using the Scriptures. It's impossible to explain prophecy without using the Scriptures. It's impossible to fellowship with other Christians without the Scriptures. So I advise my sisters in Christ to do the same thing that I do myself: Follow the Spirit's leading with regard to what you share and how you share it, and make sure that you have His peace about it. (The one who has doubts isn't doing what she is doing by faith and should refrain until she has His peace about what she has in mind to say.) And remember that we will all have to give an account to Jesus for what we did and why. Keep Him in mind, pray for guidance, obey His commands, and do as the faith He gives you directs.
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Post by frienduff on May 10, 2018 18:44:07 GMT -5
Sister you loved . I realize times have changed , and for a man to speak out on certain things seem as hate . Or it seems erroneous if one speaks against what the common mindset has been molded into . But I can guarantee if we had been in those early churches , we would have seen way lot of more serious minded , more real guenine love that corrects and an all out HONOR the LORD GOD above all things attitude .
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Post by frienduff on May 10, 2018 18:45:50 GMT -5
I think most today in these days instead of wondering , IF I say this will it offend this group or this sex or this race or etc. OUR MINDSET needs to be Let us not OFFEND GOD . and let us just speak truth and not worry, For those who are OF Christ, they will hear it and if not , they will harden to it . Just speak truth and have no fear and do all to win souls and HONOR , YES HONOR GOD above all things .
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Post by frienduff on May 10, 2018 18:53:28 GMT -5
THE MORE we read the bible , THE MORE that pattern is formed in us . I notice men these days are terrified of offending women . Love outweighs fear . Teach the pattern paul and others did . IT WORKS , GOD made man as a man and woman as a woman . Their are roles for each and we cannot blend the two. all can spread the gospel , all can prophesy , but women cannot have authority over the man. WE must keep the pattern. Do we think we wiser than paul , who said WHY he wont suffer a woman to teach or ursurp authority over the man . I know godly women who simply doing as they are led and in the order the early church set , ARE beaming lights into the world , they have the LORD . I hear so often, well those were different times , times always change, Doctrine don't . Its the environment we were raised in , BUT GODS WORD will burn it out . the more we learn THAT PATTERN the more we teach that pattern . Its not like churches just started changing things , THEY been at it for years . God made us male or female. the male is not better than the female , the female is not better than the man . ITS JUST we have the pattern set to us FOR a reason .
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Post by justinadams on May 11, 2018 3:47:24 GMT -5
And so today, wives get twisted scriptures off the internet in order to send their failing husbands away. The state run psych peddlers find all kinds of reasons why husbands are detrimental to their family. The church looks the other way and another family unit bites the dust. I have never heard it preached that wives are to allow God to work in situations like this. However there is a plethora of internet spiel about deadbeat dads and sitcoms that bolster the idea that mothers are heroines of the state and should be afforded every right to abandon their men. It is such a joke how the scriptures have been turned on their heads by modern ideas. All kinds of hate is directed at Saul (Paul) and I have read stuff written by feminists saying that this book does not even belong in the scriptures. How can a fresh Christian believer wade thru all this disinformation? It is a task and a half to even have the freedom to teach this kind of thing. I see in the near future, we may not have that 'right' anymore.
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Post by tlsitd on May 11, 2018 6:30:17 GMT -5
I think I understand what Letters is saying....it's not a sin question, it's a rule question, and exceptions can sometimes be made to rules...in a time of need or for God's purposes. I think Deborah was one such exception if I'm not mistaken. See if this seems right or not....I believe from scripture where it says women must remain silent is talking about idle chatter and asking of questions, not to disrupt the flow of the meetings...as well not to teach. It obviously can't mean literally silent all the time, since it is permitted for a woman to pray and prophesy. Only teaching is not allowed and assuming leadership over men in the church...because teaching by it's nature is sort of assuming authority over the ones they are teaching. Whereas prophesying and possibly even preaching (if it is genuinely by the Holy Spirit) are bringing HIS word and authority. Please help my memory here, but I think the bible only forbids women teaching, not preaching...? This is obviously in context of teaching here....let the woman learn...not teach... 1Ti 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Preaching is a different thing than teaching....preaching is in the spirit, while teaching is to help the understanding. Preaching can be done without being in a leadership role like pastor or elder. Women certainly do preach the gospel on mission fields especially. I would not recommend a woman to preach in a church that would be offended by that though, just to avoid a stumbling block. The church services are actually supposed to be conducted by and participated in by the men. The women are present in the congregations, but not a part of the actual church service. The men teach. The men pray aloud ( lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling). The men sing the hymns. The men prophesy. The men speak in tongues. And the women are silent and listen. (There's more to the explanation of the church than this, but this truth alone will probably be hard enough to receive.) Notice that the instructions for the churches are addressed to men and not to women (although there are commands given to women for behavior in the congregations---keeping silent and learning in silence---and moral instruction that applies to both genders). Notice that the church gifts (the spiritual gifts for building up the church) are given to men and not to women (Ephesians 4:8,11,12). That doesn't mean that women aren't given certain spiritual gifts (the gift of prophecy for example), but they are not given spiritual gifts for the building up of the body: Pastors, evangelists, apostles, prophets (not prophetesses); all male. Nor are they supposed to serve as deacons, although they may be patronesses of the church and serve as hostesses and minister to the needs of the saints in various ways. It's not a formal position like the position of a deacon in the church is. Women are not to prophesy in church, or sing, or preach. Those instructions are in fact for the brothers, not the sisters. Women may sing or prophesy outside of the church service, but the church service is supposed to be conducted by and participated in by the brothers, and the women should keep silent in the churches. The church is a formal meeting and service to God, not just a prayer gathering or a time of fellowship for brothers and sisters---such as on an online forum like this one, or a Bible study. And it has a formal structure: various offices, and rules for how it is to be set up and how worship should be conducted, which the epistles define. It's not merely a gathering of believers. It's tricky to understand this, because, obviously, there are many things in the epistles that apply to both men and women (such as moral instruction, and explanations of concepts). But not everything does. And sometimes what is written specifically refers to men and the spiritual gifts that are given to men, as they are to be used by men, and not to women. If this sounds utterly bizarre and impossible, I suggest reading the epistles more carefully and taking note of who is being addressed. The reason the epistles are addressed to the brothers (and not the brothers and sisters)---'brothers', 'brothers', 'brothers', over and over---is because the churches are for men. According to God's order of things, generally, it works this way: God speaks to the men, and the men speak to the women. It's a hierarchy of sorts, in terms of authority: God, then angels, then men, then women. God spoke to Adam, and Adam passed His command on to his wife, which was just as if God Himself had given her the command directly. God spoke mainly to the men of Israel, in the Old Testament---over and over; the men, or sons, of Israel. Why? Because of God's hierarchy. The men were supposed to pass on God's commands to their wives. And so it continues in the New Testament. (Obviously, there are many things in both the OT and NT that apply to both men and women, but the Scriptures are overwhelmingly addressed to men. This is such an obvious fact that it's sort of amazing that people overlook it.) I hate to mention the orthodox Jews, because I don't want to seem to be suggesting that Christians should copy them (and most of you already know my position on Hebrew Roots and its ilk), but I mention this only for illustration purposes, so that you can get an idea of how the early churches might have operated, in terms of their services. In the orthodox Jewish synagogues, the men conduct the worship services---singing and praying and reading from the Torah---and the women listen and watch. In some synagogues the women even sit apart from the men in a special balcony---like spectators. It's very obvious in such services that the service is supposed to be conducted by the men, just like the Jewish temple service was. The formal temple positions/offices were all male. And so are the church positions. (I believe this is important for Christians to understand, because understanding the truth eliminates confusion and error in the practice of our faith, which makes us more fruitful and powerful as saints and more pleasing to the Lord for knowing and doing what His will actually is, and also knowing what it is not.)
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