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Post by John on Mar 4, 2019 12:11:56 GMT -5
We all know God calls and gifts people to do different ministries like Apostle, Prophet, Pastor, evangelist and Teacher, but the church has carnal needs as well as spiritual ones. The early church had to deal with this as we do, thus we see the creation of offices to deal with such things in Acts 6:1-7.
And in those days , when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, it is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them. And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
When we read about the offices of Bishops, Deacons and Elders, these are offices that were created primarily to handle the different carnal needs of the church. This would allow those who were involved in doing the ministry gifts to be free to do them without distraction, and so the other matters would be handled properly. There are only so many hours in the day. The ministry gifts are divine callings of God, whereas you can desire to be a Bishop, Elder or Deacon and seek to hold those offices. Still, those who are allowed to hold them are limited, as God gave qualifications they must meet. Here in Acts, the qualifications mentioned are that they be "of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom," but the qualifications are more in depth in 1 Timothy.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Mar 4, 2019 16:11:59 GMT -5
Here in Acts, the qualifications mentioned are that they be "of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom," but the qualifications are more in depth in 1 Timothy.
"Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience. But let these also first be tested; then let them serve as deacons, being found blameless." - 1 Timothy 3:8-10
"Likewise, their wives must be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For those who have served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus." - 1 Timothy 3:11-13
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Post by frienduff on Mar 4, 2019 16:36:10 GMT -5
And all the while those seven also went out and proclaimed the gospel . Stephen one of the seven was stoned to death for it . Phillip went down and witnessed too . And phillip also had four young virgin daughters who did prophesy . The key to anything that is done , is that the gospel must be forefront of all of it . Tis why rick warrens teaching was so dead to me , even as a babe when I read but a few places in it , IT was totally dead to me . A bit later , after more learning and discernment by being built up in bible sound doctrine , I knew why rick warrens DP and purpose driven life had been so empty to me , He was false . Any man that puts the gospel even second , has no business leading anyone , in rick warrens case he did not only do that , HE did not even preach the gospel but just delusion cloaked with doing good deeds . In line with seeker friendly it just destroyed what was left. Prepared them all unto Rome these messages did . And Rome prepares all unto the beast who was and is and yet is not . The gospel MUST be forefront . The example JESUS taught must be forefront and the apostles knew that and kept it so . We in an age where not only have many been deceived into a gospel that is no gospel , but many more will be too . Check the Spirit behind all things . And do it by knowing both the bible and our LORD well .
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Post by frienduff on Mar 4, 2019 16:39:29 GMT -5
Let the saints be prepared unto even death . Its coming and many will be killed in the days and time ahead . Let us learn Christ and keep on being reminded and stirred up by way of remembrance unto that first pure pattern OF THE LORD and of the apostels . If any man , woman or child , if any angel even , or a donkey speak and yet contradicts anything out of that original pattern , THEN know and understand its but a delusion and heed it not .
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Post by frienduff on Mar 4, 2019 16:40:38 GMT -5
OH , and you better believe its TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD who has saved us and can keep us from falling . OH but its always time to PRAISE THE LORD
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2019 7:54:16 GMT -5
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 1 Timothy 3:1
Bishop is an office, not a ministry gift, and while a Pastor can be a Bishop if he meets the qualifications for the office, he is not necessarily a Bishop. This is a responsible job, and it comes with a list of qualifications.
1. A Bishop then must be blameless. 2. the husband of one wife 3. vigilant 4. sober 5. of good behavior 6. given to hospitality 7. apt to teach 8. Not given to wine 9. no striker 10. not greedy of filthy lucre 11. but patient 12. not a brawler 13. not covetous 14. one that ruleth well his own house 15. having his children in subjection with all gravity (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 16. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil 17. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 1 Timothy 3:2-7
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2019 8:48:59 GMT -5
Likewise must the Deacons 1. be grave 2. not doubletongued 3. not given to much wine 4. not greedy of filthy lucre 5. Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience 6. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless 7. Even so must their wives be grave 8. not slanderers 9. sober 10. faithful in all things 11. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife 12. ruling their children and their own houses well
For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 3:8-13
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Post by Giller on Mar 12, 2019 9:00:52 GMT -5
Tit 1:5-9 (5) For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: (6) If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. (7) For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (8) But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; (9) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Here it seems to tie in elders and bishops as being the same thing, for it speaks of ordaining elders, and that they must be blameless, and then it mentions the word "for", which is just a continuation of what was already being talked about.
So elders and bishops are really the same thing.
And the word bishop just simply means overseer.
1Pe 5:1 (1) The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
Even Peter, which was an apostle, was an elder.
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2019 9:22:21 GMT -5
A bishop by definition is an overseer. Elder seems to indicate a man who is more aged, but the job description is not clear. I have looked at them as trustworthy older men who do what is needed, working with bishops and deacons. I can't be 100 percent sure with it not being spelled out.
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Post by Giller on Mar 12, 2019 9:40:58 GMT -5
A bishop by definition is an overseer. Elder seems to indicate a man who is more aged, but the job description is not clear. I have looked at them as trustworthy older men who do what is needed, working with bishops and deacons. I can't be 100 percent sure with it not being spelled out.
Yes I can see what you mean, but could elder just be pointing, to an office, to were someone has some type of spiritual maturity in the Lord, which enables him to be an elder? Now of course only some (not all) are called to be this, but the Titus scripture puts bishops and elders as being the same thing. And here is another scripture to think upon, which mentions elders, and then later the word overseer: Act 20:17 (17) And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. Act 20:28 (28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2019 9:59:49 GMT -5
A bishop by definition is an overseer. Elder seems to indicate a man who is more aged, but the job description is not clear. I have looked at them as trustworthy older men who do what is needed, working with bishops and deacons. I can't be 100 percent sure with it not being spelled out.
Yes I can see what you mean, but could elder just be pointing, to an office, to were someone has some type of spiritual maturity in the Lord, which enables him to be an elder? Now of course only some (not all) are called to be this, but the Titus scripture puts bishops and elders as being the same thing. And here is another scripture to think upon, which mentions elders, and then later the word overseer: Act 20:17 (17) And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. Act 20:28 (28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. I see what you are saying, and I believe that you are right. Because elder is a different word in the Greek, I saw it as a different office . Elder and Bishop do appear to be the same office.
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Post by John on Mar 12, 2019 10:10:14 GMT -5
I am glad we had this discussion Giller. It helped me to see a mistake I was making regarding God's order for the church.
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Post by frienduff on Mar 12, 2019 17:11:57 GMT -5
Yall know what time it is , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD . OH let all rejoice in the LORD and rejoice in His salvation . Let all continue faithful IN CHRIST till the end . Now , hands up and praise the LORD .
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