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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 10:51:17 GMT -5
I know that when something is ingrained in us it is hard to let go, but one thing I do, is not only check out what other people say, but I check my own self out as well.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 11:04:59 GMT -5
2Th 2:7 (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
I have thought upon this scripture a fair bunch throughout the years, and I know that it has to fit 100% or it is false.
I do not base what I believe on the popularity of a doctrine or lack thereof, juts want to make sure it is biblical that is it.
The taken out of the way aspect of things, I once thought it might refer to this thing that was removed, somewhere in the 60's, which paved the way for the Catholic church to finally preach their sermons or cathechisms in their own language rather than Latin, which I mentioned this after a certain manner, but I will not get into it.
Which seemed to have a ecumenical aspect to it, but now I do not see it this way.
Yesterday, I was pondering on what was taken out of the way, and there might actually just be a simple biblical explanation, which would go along with he who "now" letteth, and would point to an he.
And which shows something being taken out of the way, which would cause certain things to have to be.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 11:40:03 GMT -5
2Th 2:1 (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, Right here I am just showing forth, that there will be a type of gathering at the second coming, and a type of gathering at the rapture of the church. 1Th 4:15-17 (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
| Mat 24:30-31 (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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At the rapture, the church gets caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and we shall go to heaven with him, but at the second coming, he gathers the elect from the four winds of heaven, and they come down with him. Notice that the actual word gather is mentioned on the second coming side, but not on the rapture side.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 12:00:35 GMT -5
Oh and in this type of Latin man of the mass doctrine I was purporting, I admit, it seemed I had to do a bit of spiritual cartwheels to seem to make it fit.
Which I finally rejected last night.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 12:06:02 GMT -5
The thing I will mention, I do not have to do any spiritual cart wheels at all, and it fits with context, and it fits with when most people believe the Antichrist shall be revealed.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 12:49:01 GMT -5
2Th 2:1-3 (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
It mentions a day singular here, and not days plural, and this day singular is referring to what was mentioned in verse 1.
God does not mince his words, he means what he says and says what he means.
And many times, the rapture and the second coming are mentioned separately in the bible.
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Post by John on Mar 6, 2019 12:55:31 GMT -5
2Th 2:7 (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. I have thought upon this scripture a fair bunch throughout the years, and I know that it has to fit 100% or it is false. I do not base what I believe on the popularity of a doctrine or lack thereof, juts want to make sure it is biblical that is it. The taken out of the way aspect of things, I once thought it might refer to this thing that was removed, somewhere in the 60's, which paved the way for the Catholic church to finally preach their sermons or cathechisms in their own language rather than Latin, which I mentioned this after a certain manner, but I will not get into it. Which seemed to have a ecumenical aspect to it, but now I do not see it this way. Yesterday, I was pondering on what was taken out of the way, and there might actually just be a simple biblical explanation, which would go along with he who " now" letteth, and would point to an he. And which shows something being taken out of the way, which would cause certain things to have to be. I have either heard it taught that what would be taken was the church during the rapture, or the Holy Spirit.
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Post by John on Mar 6, 2019 12:59:48 GMT -5
2Th 2:1-3 (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; It mentions a day singular here, and not days plural, and this day singular is referring to what was mentioned in verse 1. God does not mince his words, he means what he says and says what he means. And many times, the rapture and the second coming are mentioned separately in the bible. The second coming is a single event that will take place in one day.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 13:05:57 GMT -5
2Th 2:7 (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. I have thought upon this scripture a fair bunch throughout the years, and I know that it has to fit 100% or it is false. I do not base what I believe on the popularity of a doctrine or lack thereof, juts want to make sure it is biblical that is it. The taken out of the way aspect of things, I once thought it might refer to this thing that was removed, somewhere in the 60's, which paved the way for the Catholic church to finally preach their sermons or cathechisms in their own language rather than Latin, which I mentioned this after a certain manner, but I will not get into it. Which seemed to have a ecumenical aspect to it, but now I do not see it this way. Yesterday, I was pondering on what was taken out of the way, and there might actually just be a simple biblical explanation, which would go along with he who " now" letteth, and would point to an he. And which shows something being taken out of the way, which would cause certain things to have to be. I have either heard it taught that what would be taken was the church during the rapture, or the Holy Spirit.
Ya those are the popular views of our day, and like I mentioned before, the popular view from the time of the early church, to about the 1700's or 1800's, (which I do not subscribe to) was the Roman empire falling (taken out), and religious Rome arising, and the popish office being proclaimed as Antichrist.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 13:18:06 GMT -5
2Th 2:1 (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, Right here I am just showing forth, that there will be a type of gathering at the second coming, and a type of gathering at the rapture of the church. 1Th 4:15-17 (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
| Mat 24:30-31 (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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At the rapture, the church gets caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and we shall go to heaven with him, but at the second coming, he gathers the elect from the four winds of heaven, and they come down with him. Notice that the actual word gather is mentioned on the second coming side, but not on the rapture side. I read this to myself out loud. Are you saying it's possible the rapture has already happened? Or that the rapture could actually happen anywhere any time as the Lord pleases? Cause I prayed so hard for Jesus to come back and for His name to be glorified in the churches again--- I feel like that prayer was accepted by the Lord. I feel that He is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh as promised and that now is the time to really seek Him like never before.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 13:21:21 GMT -5
What I do know, is that "he" who now letteth, has to refer to an he, and not to a she.
The church is mentioned as a she, now we know that the church will be taken out of this world, to meet the Lord in the air, and we shall go to heaven with him, and there are scriptures to back that up, but the one taken out of the way, in Thessalonians, refers to an he.
And concerning the Holy Spirit, yes he does refer as being an "he", but is their back up scriptures that shows the Holy Spirit being taken out of the way? No actually there is not.
And here is a scripture to ponder upon.
Joe 2:28-31 (28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. (30) And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. (31) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Now we know by other scriptures that this out pouring of the Spirit started on the day of Pentecost, but I believe that this pouring of the Spirit continued throughout church history, mostly through pockets of remnants, and will continue even unto the time of the second coming, and we can see that the second coming is mentioned here.
Nothing about the taking out of the Holy Spirit here.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 13:22:52 GMT -5
2Th 2:1 (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, Right here I am just showing forth, that there will be a type of gathering at the second coming, and a type of gathering at the rapture of the church. 1Th 4:15-17 (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
| Mat 24:30-31 (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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At the rapture, the church gets caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and we shall go to heaven with him, but at the second coming, he gathers the elect from the four winds of heaven, and they come down with him. Notice that the actual word gather is mentioned on the second coming side, but not on the rapture side. I read this to myself out loud. Are you saying it's possible the rapture has already happened? Or that the rapture could actually happen anywhere any time as the Lord pleases? Cause I prayed so hard for Jesus to come back and for His name to be glorified in the churches again--- I feel like that prayer was accepted by the Lord. I feel that He is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh as promised and that now is the time to really seek Him like never before. No I do not believe that the rapture has happened yet, and it is obvious that it has not, love you in the Lord.
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Post by John on Mar 6, 2019 13:31:09 GMT -5
The church is compared to a bride in some places, but as guests at the wedding in others, while New Jerusalem is called the bride of Christ in Revelation. I wouldn't put too much stock in he verses she. For what it is worth, I don't think it is the Holy Spirit.
@ ruthnaomi, we should be prepared for the Lord to return at any moment.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 13:31:10 GMT -5
I read this to myself out loud. Are you saying it's possible the rapture has already happened? Or that the rapture could actually happen anywhere any time as the Lord pleases? Cause I prayed so hard for Jesus to come back and for His name to be glorified in the churches again--- I feel like that prayer was accepted by the Lord. I feel that He is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh as promised and that now is the time to really seek Him like never before. No I do not believe that the rapture has happened yet, and it is obvious that it has not, love you in the Lord. I hope the rapture happens ---well it'd be selfish to want it now. But I just feel like Jesus could come back RIGHT now and I'd be like, "Let's go!" I pray I keep on that race and run it well.
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Post by Giller on Mar 6, 2019 13:31:51 GMT -5
2Th 2:7 (7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Now we can see that the mystery of iniquity was working in Paul's day, which I believe refers to the spirit of antichrist.
It mentions this spirit of antichrist as working, so it was at work, it was in operation.
But concerning "he" who now letteth, it does not mention it specifically as being at work, but rather it mentions it as hindering or restraining in some fashion, but in what way?
Well maybe the only way we can know, is in knowing what this "he" is referring to.
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