PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 23, 2019 15:19:13 GMT -5
When I say church, I don’t mean the body of Christ we are members of through faith. This is not about dropping out of the Christian walk. This is about leaving the institutional brick-and-mortar church system where Christians are expected to report like members of a club. It’s been about a year since I stepped foot in a church building, and at this point I can’t say I miss it. To be blunt, I can’t say my growth in Christ is lacking for it either.
I’m not the sort of person you’d expect to hear this from. I’m a PK who got saved at 17 and did the whole church thing perfectly for 20 years. Like most church members, it was pounded into me that dropping out was the first step to backsliding. Hebrews 10 and all that. There was no good reason to drop out of church, not for any level of distrust or discontent, and those who quit were always portrayed as bleeding-heart snowflakes or rebellious apostates. Wanting to be neither of those (and truly desiring a closer walk with Jesus) I plunged myself into church participation. I did the home groups, the book clubs, the family game nights, the volunteer labor crew, and the homemade pastries for potluck. I gave my time, my energy, my knowledge, and (most importantly, it seemed) my money. I gave and I gave and I gave and I gave for every new initiative or program that popped into a leader’s head. I never asked for anything more than what was reasonable. I never demanded special visits, never asked to be put in charge, and never pushed for my “gifts” to be noticed. In short, I was a model church member.
Here was the problem: my desire for a closer walk with Jesus was bigger than my allegiance to a club. At home in my personal time, I greatly hungered for the truth. This is not to brag on myself; it’s just to explain what happened. I cultivated relationships with as many Christians as I could find. I searched out Bible teaching from a variety of great thinkers and time-honored saints. Believing the Bible to really be true, my husband and I put it into practice. We prayed for the sick, exhorted others to good works, meditated on the word, and held to Scripture as our source of advice when making business decisions. Things described in the New Testament were common for us. A friend called for help because her husband was in ICU on life support — we saw God restore him completely. God spoke to us prophetically to tell us what would happen, and it happened. People who were bitter toward religion found a new start through true regeneration. This was daily life for us.
Why do I say this was the problem? Because churches increasingly abandoned these things. Even in so-called charismatic Pentecostal churches where such things were expected, what I saw was a faint shadow of the NT. I began to feel like Superman with his Clark Kent disguise. Monday-Saturday my life was filled with inspired Bible studies, routine miracles, effective discipleship, and good standing in the community as a responsible citizen. Then Sunday morning would come. I’d put on my Clark Kent disguise, sit in a building for two hours, and do nothing. But it’s a sin to leave church (right?) so year after year, month after month, I dragged myself to a building every Sunday for my face time with a pastor.
I began to connect with other Christians who had the same story. I don’t have a home church. Can’t find a decent one. My friends are my church. I saw that this wasn’t an isolated case of me being disgruntled; it was the norm among mature believers. Meanwhile, the church I was attending seemed to go from bad to worse. I’d gone there at the enthusiastic recommendation of a Spirit-filled believer after trying several others, so I knew it was pretty much the best option around. But this was the best? Petty arguments, bad leadership, boring sermons, horrible music, and feeble corporate worship? Leaving in a bad mood, feeling worse and not better, more often than not? This was worth a drive across town every week?
We were done. We starting staying home on Sundays more and more, until we dropped out altogether. The pastor half-heartedly texted to see if we were alive. We said we were moving on, and he said okay. No questions why, no offer to meet with us, just a brief text dialog to make sure we weren’t dead. And that was that. We deliberated about finding a new church. We looked at websites and Facebook feeds. All the same rhetoric, same programs, same sales pitches, same everything. No more of that. We made the decision to drop out of church.
If I had to summarize my reasons for quitting church, here would be my list:
1) Better fellowship is happening outside of its walls beyond its supervision
2) People are getting healed and delivered without it
3) Evangelism and discipleship are actually easier when it’s not in the equation
4) Two thousand years of teaching is available, which the modern church is not exactly improving on
5) Churches have hurt more people more deeply more repeatedly than they seem to understand
6) Once you learn the basics, you quickly outgrow the curriculum
7) It frees up money to actually help friends and neighbors in need
8) You can reject denominational traditions (or even change your doctrine as needed) without being afraid of losing your status
9) You can submit to Spirit-filled authority figures as lifelong friends, not whatever pastor is in charge at the moment
10) The burdensome lifestyle of scheduled meetings and required attendance gives way to the liberty of spontaneous fellowship
If you have a home church that you love, that’s great. I’m happy for you. Keep attending. However, in my city at this point in my life, it simply doesn’t seem to be an option.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 23, 2019 16:42:09 GMT -5
Sister you are loved . Hunger for truth will always lead us where we ought to be . And that is with those who hunger for truth . Sadly I did not see this in the churches I would visit either . I will be in the process of investigating another church and how I hope its Christ centered and not the doctrines of men . Many folks desire fellowship , but the wrong kind of fellowship . IF I wanted fellowship for just the sake of fellowship what a loss that is . But fellowship with those who LOVE THE TRUTH , who love CHRIST First and foremost IS the true fellowship . all else is sinking sands and the winds of vanity . We are in a massive falling away and its getting only worse now . And all I keep hearing is this LOVE UNIVERSAL INCLUSVIE mindset being pumped one way or another into many churches and other religions and even secular athiests , wicans , its just a mess . THESE will unite more and more in time with a common goal of unity for world peace . ALL is deception in its circle . Its massive , but we were warned and OUR OWN LORD when speaking about the times and days NEAR HIS COMING warned huge , TAKE HEED that you be NOT DECIVED . TAKE HEED that you be not deceived . MANY DECIEVERS WILL ABOUND and be able to deceive even the very elect if that were possible . WELL its here and will get only worse . Let the lambs stand united in CHRIST and be ready and prepared to lose all for HIS GLORIOUS NAME SAKE .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 23, 2019 17:19:30 GMT -5
If I had to summarize my reasons for quitting church, here would be my list... "...The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say,
‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." - Luke 17:20-21
I believe the kingdom of God is manifested among Spirit filled believers.
Not all people who are in a church building are believers, and believers must do their part and let the unction flow naturally.
"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking,
but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." - Romans 14:17
What happens is that people are looking for a nice church, but they disregard the fact that they are part of the church.
A single believer can experience the kingdom of God within them, even alone, according to their faith.
To me, an ideal church would be one that is focused on living the gospel, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord.
But if I do not do my part... how will other believers feel free to ignite the fire?!
"Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." - Matthew 5:16
I have experienced such fire in me on some forums, where few believers would start talking and the unction would just flow.
I have experienced a warmer Narrow Way, but today it is colder than I wished it to be, to be honest.
What is fire, you would ask me?! By fire, I mean love.
I am not talking about supernatural occurrences, miracles and such.
Love, sincere love is already supernatural by itself. And when there is love, good things always happen, naturally.
"Do not quench the Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 5:19
"...bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails..." - 1 Corinthians 13:7-8
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
Blessings!
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Post by John on Apr 23, 2019 17:35:35 GMT -5
Much like you Candance, I used to be involved heavily in my home church. I did pretty much whatever the Pastor needed, even if I wasn't qualified for the position. One of my first jobs was with a boys club called Ambassadors For Christ, that later merged into Royal Rangers. I was never involved in the Boy Scouts or things like that, and really wasn't in any position to take that job, but I was put with another guy that supposedly knew what he was doing. I served as an usher. I ran the sound system, which was more up my alley since I worked in radio. I drove a church van. I pretty much did whatever. On top of that, when the Pastor travelled to other churches to preach revivals, I went along to support him. I had a lot of confidence in the Pastor at that time.
What led to my leaving was becoming disillusioned when I saw that the Pastor really didn't stand for what he was saying. He preached what he had to for the congregation and the denomination. When it suited him better, he did a complete 180 and changed his doctrine to reach more people. He went from a half hearted holiness message to that of a liberal charismatic. At the time, I thought he was a holiness preacher, but that was because I came out of the United Methodist Church, and it seemed that way at the time in comparison. The thing is, I believed the message he had been preaching, but when he changed his doctrine, he expected the sheep to all go along. He preached nonsense like the cloud had moved, using the cloud that went with the children of Israel out of context. He had taken off the mask. He had grown. Those who didn't go along with the new and improved beliefs were in rebellion. After all, God had placed us there and we had no choice but to remain.
All of that messed with me for a while, and I decided to re-read the entire Bible again to make sure I was in the right here. After completing the Bible again, I realized that the problem wasn't with me, but with the Pastor. The last straw was when he had a guy in short shorts playing the drums in church and a woman wearing jeans leading the singing, when such things would never have been tolerated in the past. That was by no means the only reason, but it was the last straw. I could go through a list of all the changes in doctrine he made and how he split with his wife and re-married, but it was one thing after another. I told him I was thinking of leaving, and he pronounced gloom and doom for my future and said my wife would backslide.
The first thing I did was start going to another church in the same denomination I had been in, and I liked it pretty good, but my wife was uncomfortable there. We wound up at a Church of God, where I was never fully comfortable. I was asked to preach a message one Sunday, and I guess the message was too hard for them, as the Pastor ripped into what I said in his next message. My message was about how the church had been asleep and had allowed a lot of the evil to come into this nation. We never stood up and stood together against things like abortion and the homosexual agenda. I wasn't supposed to say anything negative about the church. We were this glorious church, and nothing was our fault. That was when I realized I could not remain there. In addition to that, the Pastor would tell me he believed in holiness, but would let down the standards he believed in for numbers. His view was at least people were filling the church.
My last physical church was the first church I was part of. I had gone back to Bethel so to speak. They had an old retired minister, who was far more conservative than anyone you will hear today. He stood against sin, and held to Wesleyan doctrine. He also used the KJV Bible. He wound up having to step down because of poor health, and I wound up as Pastor of the church. My doctrine was too hard for most of the people there, and people were working against me the whole time I was there. There was also corruption that I discovered and put a stop to that led to people turning against me. An example would be secretly using church money to purchase home oil for 4 widows at the church. They thought themselves entitled. I was never able to prove they did it, but I knew what was going on. They were friends with the oil man, and our bill was through the roof. To cut this off, I changed oil companies and made sure the guy only answered to me. Our oil bill went way down. I was also told through a subtle message that one of the ladies was out of oil in her home. My biggest issue there, in addition to the fact that they didn't all qualify for help, was they didn't do things openly. It was done through deceit, and there was also a missing building fund that someone slipped and said they hid, and then they took it back like they never said it. I have no idea what happened to that. There was another person gradually balancing the books to make them look right. It was a huge mess. I set things straight before I left. I mean it was squeaky clean. When I spoke to headquarters, they weren't even surprised about what happened. That is when I realized the corruption that exists in churches. It is not just in places like PTL. Don't get me wrong. Headquarters didn't condone it. They just knew corruption takes place, and I guess there is nothing new under the sun.
When I left, I made a clean break from a physical church. I still had my God given calling as a Pastor, but didn't foresee using it again in any capacity, till I was approached about starting this ministry. I felt like God was in it. It appears he was in it more than I realized a year ago. I would love to be part of a good physical church, but I can't find one. One problem I have is that I have been in the Bible so much, I recognize false doctrine when I see it. Any place I could go will have error, and most of it is based on tradition as they are based on Luther, Calvin, Wesley or some other founder of the denomination, and they just keep repeating the errors. It is part of established doctrine. The one thing I like here is that we are open to going back to the Bible and not so steeped in tradition, where we can't change our view if we see something we heard was wrong. I am not against physical churches, but I have pretty much given up on finding one I can be part of. This is my church.
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Post by John on Apr 23, 2019 17:42:37 GMT -5
If I had to summarize my reasons for quitting church, here would be my list... "...The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say,
‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." - Luke 17:20-21
I believe the kingdom of God is manifested among Spirit filled believers.
Not all people who are in a church building are believers, and believers must do their part and let the unction flow naturally.
"for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking,
but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." - Romans 14:17
What happens is that people are looking for a nice church, but they disregard the fact that they are part of the church.
A single believer can experience the kingdom of God within them, even alone, according to their faith.
To me, an ideal church would be one that is focused on living the gospel, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord.
But if I do not do my part... how will other believers feel free to ignite the fire?!
"Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." - Matthew 5:16
I have experienced such fire in me on some forums, where few believers would start talking and the unction would just flow.
I have experienced a warmer Narrow Way, but today it is colder than I wished it to be, to be honest.
What is fire, you would ask me?! By fire, I mean love.
I am not talking about supernatural occurrences, miracles and such.
Love, sincere love is already supernatural by itself. And when there is love, good things always happen, naturally.
"Do not quench the Spirit." - 1 Thessalonians 5:19
"...bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails..." - 1 Corinthians 13:7-8
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love." - Galatians 5:6
Blessings! I appreciate your honesty about things being colder than you would like. Do you have any suggestions about how to make things warmer again? We have been under a spiritual attack. There is no question about that. We have had people take jabs at us. We have had things come in to divide us. We have been going through a difficult time, and it appears that many of our members are also going through struggles. I have been dealing with one thing after another for the last couple of months, and I know I am not the only one. Others have told me about things they are going through. I think that accounts for some of the problem. I will feel God's presence at our weekly Bible Study and Prayer Meeting, sometimes stronger than others. I don't know if more fellowship meetings might be helpful? I am really interested in knowing what you and others think.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 23, 2019 17:54:29 GMT -5
Do you have any suggestions about how to make things warmer again? We can talk about this in a PM. I will answer soon.
Blessings!
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Apr 23, 2019 20:22:19 GMT -5
my story is much the same for many years already. Just ask God to cross your paths with His true people. those who desire truth, and righteousness, and do not accept half truth or false teachings. Who want to grow closer and closer to God and want nothing more than to have a relationship with Him. I have met some people lately. I do not like to call people good, but these are good christian people. real people. real believers. people whose beliefs line up with mine. i think yall would like them. Just keep in mind God does want us to assemble together and if we ask and seek He will provide because its what He wants. Like I already said, years already. it may take a while but dont give up. maybe take a break. de stress. de-funk yourself. you know to where you are ok in your heart with how it is for you now. I 100% wholeheartedly support the decision to rid your life of vanity. it is my belief we should right now be preparing ourselves as a bride prepares herself for her groom on wedding day. we should be not only getting rid of everything not of Him... but even the slightest tinge of anything that leads to whats not of Him. I will pray for you to be able to have homechurch or whatever, to meet others. find a church, church in the sense of people coming together to God. to worship, and pray, and edify one another and anything Jesus wants to do with His body. I am also going to pray for Butero and Letters.
God Speed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 7:03:31 GMT -5
There has been an exodus from the western churches in recent years the like of which has no precedent in church history that I know of....except maybe apart from the time of the Reformation. When God's spirit is grieved and departs His house (ichabod), He may allow another spirit to come into the vacuum and take over....so He gets His sheep out of there to protect them from His judgment.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
And we need to be aware that Pharaoh pursued the Israelites into the wilderness to try and bring them back....so we always need to continue to be wise and discerning and be led by the Lord.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 24, 2019 9:02:15 GMT -5
Just to be clear, fellowship in some capacity is absolutely essential. There may be isolated cases where a person serves God alone due to being in prison or something, but those should be rare exceptions. Scripture gives us too much overwhelming evidence about the need for fellowship. Even if you can only meet with one other person, that’s enough to carry out Scripture. Going it alone almost never works.
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Post by John on Apr 24, 2019 9:31:50 GMT -5
Just to be clear, fellowship in some capacity is absolutely essential. There may be isolated cases where a person serves God alone due to being in prison or something, but those should be rare exceptions. Scripture gives us too much overwhelming evidence about the need for fellowship. Even if you can only meet with one other person, that’s enough to carry out Scripture. Going it alone almost never works. If your fellowship is with a good and stable Christian, that can work, but if it is you and only one other believer, period, and they stumble, they may take you down with them.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 24, 2019 10:31:25 GMT -5
Going it alone almost never works. I believe there two common traps:
Living as an isolated Christian.
"And if they were all one member, where would the body be?" - 1 Corinthians 12:19
"...there should be no schism in the body,
but that the members should have the same care for one another." - 1 Corinthians 12:25
A body will not work as it should with missing members.
Living as a hidden Christian.
"No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it
under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light." - Luke 8:16
"You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden." - Matthew 5:14
"Let your light so shine before men, that they
may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." - Matthew 5:16
"having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against
you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation." - 1 Peter 2:12
Blessings!
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Post by frienduff on Apr 24, 2019 14:20:53 GMT -5
There has been an exodus from the western churches in recent years the like of which has no precedent in church history that I know of....except maybe apart from the time of the Reformation. When God's spirit is grieved and departs His house (ichabod), He may allow another spirit to come into the vacuum and take over....so He gets His sheep out of there to protect them from His judgment. Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. And we need to be aware that Pharaoh pursued the Israelites into the wilderness to try and bring them back....so we always need to continue to be wise and discerning and be led by the Lord. And pharaohs false all inclusive unity IS the means of trying to bring all back into eygpts church . I have noticed that it don't seem to be what denomination it is , as of late pastors are also gearing sermons about trying to get anyone to just go into some church . YET WHY IS THIS MOVE INCREASING ALSO so huge among the false . THIS we must be on super double duty . Always the deceiver will use truths In a twisted sense . And I am telling us all , I have been noticing many main leaders who say you don't have to visit my church , BUT GET IN A CHURCH . BUT WHY IS THIS , WHAT IS BEHIND THIS MOVE . ITS NOT GOOD , we cannot let down our guard and just decide we will trade in some things for unity . WE CANT . IF leadership cannot discern , HOW ON EARTH IS THAT CHURCH and those who sit under that , GOONA MAKE IT , THEY WONT , THEY WONT , they will fall away by being unequally yoked , AND GOD KNOWS THIS . But so does satan . While its good we seek fellowship , WE cannot omit truth for it . DONT listen to men , spirits or any who very cleverly KNOW HOW to twist this . Cause they KNOW HOW to do it . GOD WILL GET US where and with WHO we need to be with . WE just need to pray and SEEK HIM , HE will have us with WHO HE WANTS US . KNOWN unto GOD are all things . IN THE MEAN TIME , focus more than ever on the bible and be on heavy heavy guard for many deceives and a heavy spirit of deceptions is on the rise big time .
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Post by frienduff on Apr 24, 2019 14:31:07 GMT -5
There has been an exodus from the western churches in recent years the like of which has no precedent in church history that I know of....except maybe apart from the time of the Reformation. When God's spirit is grieved and departs His house (ichabod), He may allow another spirit to come into the vacuum and take over....so He gets His sheep out of there to protect them from His judgment. Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. And we need to be aware that Pharaoh pursued the Israelites into the wilderness to try and bring them back....so we always need to continue to be wise and discerning and be led by the Lord. And now more than ever the counter to the exodus has arisen . They doing an all out last ditch effort on a entrodus , Maybe that nots a word , but it is today . They are hollering out not to forsake the assembling , but watch out because the spirit behind this entrodus back into eygpt comes cloaked under some of the strongest delusion I have ever seen or witnessed . Because it is heavy on words like love , unity , fellowship , common ground , But dear ones , ITS OF TOTAL DARKNESS simply masquerading as an angel of light . its love is hate , for it wont correct it simply focuses on acceptance not repentance . its love warns not men to repent of evil IT ALLOWS SIN upon them and just hollers how GOD IS LOVE . I am telling us the one behind this entire entrodus , IT IS THE SERPENT , IT IS . MY GOODNESS IT IS HIM . And when its made its last ditch effort , when all not in the lambs book have entered into its tree of wisdom and knowledge , IT WILL cease being the seducing serpent and release the beast and be a raging dragon against all who rejected it . AND BY THAT TIME , everyone under it , will have been made so ready for this THEY WILL SIMPLY SEE US as total haters , fully dangerous and have a fully persuaded mind that this beast IS some kind of savoir , that in fact THEY DO GODS WILL when they come against us , under this fully operational beast system with its beast and its kings who shall rule one hour with it . TIME IS RUNNING OUT , the DELUSOIN leaps and abounds and grows only worse . But as it does , THE LORD of the true saints , IS FEEDING His own , HE IS MAKING READY the true children and HE is equipping us with all we need to see only clearer and more strength . Not an , not a, BUT FOR THE END TIME LAST BATTLE . WHOLE WORLDS BEING LED to the day of amergeddon , ONLY THEY THINK ITS THE DAY OF WORLD PEACE .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 14:32:20 GMT -5
Amen frienduff....each one needs to be led by the Lord like never before and wait upon Him for His will.....it's not business as usual any more, even apart from the falling away, I believe He is preparing His own for the things that are coming.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 24, 2019 14:39:09 GMT -5
ITS not accident we met . the true lambs have our unity and soon some of us will even meet . THE LORD will gather some in tiny flocks to withstand the great evil that is rising to come against us . WE must buckle down only more IN THE LORD . ONLY MORE . This tidal wave of delusion is about to become a entire mushroom cloud that poisoins the rivers with the bitterness of total deception . RISE UP , ARISE and CHRIST shall give thee light . THE FINAL HOUR that all have spoken of through all ages , ITS HITTING the climax . Their is no doubt in my mind about what generation and what days we in . ITS SIMPLY A SODOM and GOMORRA world and worse many churches too . The whole of many have been made so ready for this final hour to worship the beast . Just wait , we WILL see it with our own eyes , The churches will be a major station as all religions combine , TO BE USED to rage war against the lambs , YES they will spy us out , YES they will also help usher in the mark . ITS sad for them , but its just the course we on now . WE have to be here for one another . And we have to be fully persuaded that to live is Christ and to die for HIM is simply gain . I have loved you all and its been such a wonderful honor to follow CHRIST who alone has saved us and can keep us from falling . But we better be on serious guard , do not let any be led astray with the ERROR of the WICKED , for many will be and many will betray many .
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