Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Apr 24, 2019 19:18:06 GMT -5
this came to mind while reading a few posts up ^^^
Pro 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 9:54:15 GMT -5
Just on the subject of churches overall......the church has been operating under a wrong fleshly concept for a very long time. Jesus said in my Father's house are many rooms.....the many rooms in the Temple were a type and shadow of the Father's heavenly/spiritual house. Rooms for the priests and rooms for the people to gather and go and eat. The simplicity of Christ has been lost in how we think of churches.....He simply said that wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them....and the kingdom is within/among you. Church is wherever we are together and He is among us and within us, in our midst. It's not the room/church that matters, it's what is taking place within the room that matters. In the eyes of the Lord, there is only one church, only one Father's house/temple, not many. His Body is the body of true believers world wide, wherever we are, and it is not contained and confined within brick and mortar walls.
When the flesh tries to enshrine the things of the Spirit, error always ensues. Remember Peter wanting to build tabernacles for Moses and Elijah on the mount. Next comes decorating the shrine and bowing down to it, taking pride in our shrine over another shrine, etc. Cathedrals are monuments to man, not to God. And His thoughts are not like our thoughts, His ways are not like man's. What is happening now with the falling away is at least in part the inevitable fruit of that error....the fruit of that error is ripening and becoming apparent in the last days. Many need to have their minds renewed to get hold of how God sees/thinks regarding His house.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 26, 2019 10:01:32 GMT -5
Just on the subject of churches overall......the church has been operating under a wrong fleshly concept for a very long time. Jesus said in my Father's house are many rooms.....the many rooms in the Temple were a type and shadow of the Father's heavenly/spiritual house. Rooms for the priests and rooms for the people to gather and go and eat. The simplicity of Christ has been lost in how we think of churches.....He simply said that wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them....and the kingdom is within/among you. Church is wherever we are together and He is among us and within us, in our midst. It's not the room/church that matters, it's what is taking place within the room that matters. In the eyes of the Lord, there is only one church, only one Father's house/temple, not many. His Body is the body of true believers world wide, wherever we are, and it is not contained and confined within brick and mortar walls. When the flesh tries to enshrine the things of the Spirit, error always ensues. Remember Peter wanting to build tabernacles for Moses and Elijah on the mount. Next comes decorating the shrine and bowing down to it, taking pride in our shrine over another shrine, etc. Cathedrals are monuments to man, not to God. And His thoughts are not like our thoughts, His ways are not like man's. What is happening now with the falling away is at least in part the inevitable fruit of that error....the fruit of that error is ripening and becoming apparent in the last days. Many need to have their minds renewed to get hold of how God sees/thinks regarding His house. Interesting, I have seen believers come together in other's house to worship.
That house would be used for some time, and it attracted many people.
But when they had enough resources, they just bought a place that is being used exclusively.
But meetings at other's house to worship is still common around here. But unfortunately, the more resources a group has the less common that is.
It is beautiful, I enjoy it (but do not do that in the present)!
Blessings!
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Post by Giller on Apr 26, 2019 10:03:50 GMT -5
Ya we have been out of the system, for a fair while as well.
I find growth is much more easy outside the system, than in the system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 10:20:16 GMT -5
Ya we have been out of the system, for a fair while as well. I find growth is much more easy outside the system, than in the system. Amen! That's the trouble with the churches as they are....the people don't grow. You can't keep an older child sucking at the teats of mother church and trying to stay nourished on nothing but milk. It was the same with me....didn't start growing in understanding or receiving anything of substance like healing until the Lord was gracious to lead me out. The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want.......I'm sure that is your testimony and that of many others as well.
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Post by Giller on Apr 26, 2019 10:31:29 GMT -5
Ya we have been out of the system, for a fair while as well. I find growth is much more easy outside the system, than in the system. Amen! That's the trouble with the churches as they are....the people don't grow. You can't keep an older child sucking at the teats of mother church and trying to stay nourished on nothing but milk. It was the same with me....didn't start growing in understanding or receiving anything of substance like healing until the Lord was gracious to lead me out. The LORD is my Shepherd, I shall not want.......I'm sure that is your testimony and that of many others as well. Amen to this. I find that most modern, institutionalized churches, are more into the numbers game, and many love the seeker sensitive, social gospel. Not many truly want to seek God with all their heart, and want nothing more than him. Right now I am seeking to lead this certain person out of that gospel, been planting seeds, pray that these seeds may grow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 10:31:47 GMT -5
Just on the subject of churches overall......the church has been operating under a wrong fleshly concept for a very long time. Jesus said in my Father's house are many rooms.....the many rooms in the Temple were a type and shadow of the Father's heavenly/spiritual house. Rooms for the priests and rooms for the people to gather and go and eat. The simplicity of Christ has been lost in how we think of churches.....He simply said that wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them....and the kingdom is within/among you. Church is wherever we are together and He is among us and within us, in our midst. It's not the room/church that matters, it's what is taking place within the room that matters. In the eyes of the Lord, there is only one church, only one Father's house/temple, not many. His Body is the body of true believers world wide, wherever we are, and it is not contained and confined within brick and mortar walls. When the flesh tries to enshrine the things of the Spirit, error always ensues. Remember Peter wanting to build tabernacles for Moses and Elijah on the mount. Next comes decorating the shrine and bowing down to it, taking pride in our shrine over another shrine, etc. Cathedrals are monuments to man, not to God. And His thoughts are not like our thoughts, His ways are not like man's. What is happening now with the falling away is at least in part the inevitable fruit of that error....the fruit of that error is ripening and becoming apparent in the last days. Many need to have their minds renewed to get hold of how God sees/thinks regarding His house. Interesting, I have seen believers come together in other's house to worship.
That house would be used for some time, and it attracted many people.
But when they had enough resources, they just bought a place that is being used exclusively.
But meetings at other's house to worship is still common around here. But unfortunately, the more resources a group has the less common that is.
It is beautiful, I enjoy it (but do not do that in the present)!
Blessings!I think it might not necessarily a question of either having a building to meet in, or not having a building, per se.....it's how we think of it all that can be the problem. We need the mind of Christ and not the mind of flesh for these things. There is only one church, one Body. And it is not confined...the Spirit blows where it willeth, and so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 26, 2019 10:37:57 GMT -5
I think it might not necessarily a question of either having a building to meet in, or not having a building, per se.....it's how we think of it all that can be the problem. We need the mind of Christ and not the mind of flesh for these things. There is only one church, one Body. And it is not confined...the Spirit blows where it willeth, and so is everyone who is born of the Spirit. I know. But not all are willing to walk as a group and worship in a tent or as we walk.
But I like having spontaneous worship meetings with limited technology and the like.
Blessings!
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Post by Giller on Apr 26, 2019 10:42:30 GMT -5
The scripture I think about is this:
Psa 127:1 (1) A Song of degrees for Solomon. Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.
Spiritually speaking I think of the church here, not a building, but a people, who are called to gather together to form a body.
Is God in this or that work? That is the question.
Did God truly bring these people together.
I praise God when he does bring people together, and it is his will, but be lead by him, and he will show you.
God can be in a place of worship were they gather in a building, or in a house.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 10:51:43 GMT -5
"Church" is where the Lord is, His Spirit....in the midst of His people. If He is not there in the midst, then what are they having really, something other than an assembly as God desires it. Because HE is our church. Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom.
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Post by solid on Apr 26, 2019 11:08:59 GMT -5
Perhaps people are holding out for perfection? That is not realistic.
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Post by Giller on Apr 26, 2019 11:28:20 GMT -5
Perhaps people are holding out for perfection? That is not realistic. Well we all can say no church is perfect, but we have to be careful even in this. We need the leading of the Spirit, yet stand on his word at the same time. No compromise. Now there may be certain things that we can bear with, but there are very dangerous gospels out there, that are leading people away from the cross, such as the ecumenical gospel, and the seeker sensitive gospel, which most churches are into (though not all). The argument of no church is perfect, should never be used as a means to compromise. God never instituted man made institutions that is called church, but sometimes people are so addicted to these institutions that they cannot see past the church being anywhere else.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 26, 2019 11:29:26 GMT -5
Perhaps people are holding out for perfection? That is not realistic. I gave up on perfection long ago. I stopped expecting much. Really, it got to the point at the end, I would have hung on if I could find a church that was even halfway decent. Just give me good teaching and act like a grownup. That’s all I needed. I tried, solid. I tried. I lowered my standards as low as I could lower them, and still the churches left me feeling worse. The last Sunday morning I spent in church, the pastor’s wife was angry because her husband had yelled at her for not singing well enough. We walked into the building that morning and stepped into a fight. He was a rocker like Bruce Springsteen, she was a dainty soprano like Celine Dion, and the “worship” set was a hot mess every Sunday. Apparently that Sunday he had enough and went off on her. This was five minutes before Sunday school. She stomped off the stage, marched to the classroom, and told anyone who would listen that her husband was a jerk. Then, to burn off energy, she spent class time slamming dishes in the kitchen. We were trying to listen (to a horrible lesson) and the teacher was literally drowned out by banging metal. Then, during service, the pastor stopped the music in the middle of worship to apologize to her. We were all standing around doing nothing while they talked on stage. They had a bad day? One-time occurrence? No, that was normal. It happened one time too many, and we were done. One bad church? No, just another in a string of bad churches all around me. I’ve had it with wasting my time every Sunday.
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Post by Giller on Apr 26, 2019 11:29:58 GMT -5
Numbers is not the goal, but rather true genuine fellowship, true genuine love, and the truth being there is the goal.
Is Christ really there?
That is a true and honest question to ask.
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Post by John on Apr 26, 2019 11:45:33 GMT -5
I can't tell you the number of churches I have visited, not expecting perfection, but just good enough, and couldn't find one close enough. There is one 75 miles from my house I would go to if it were reasonably close. It seems like most churches abandoned truth for numbers back in the 90s. If you have a good church, be thankful.
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