PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 28, 2019 14:33:09 GMT -5
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 28, 2019 14:33:57 GMT -5
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Post by 4hizglory37 on Apr 28, 2019 17:07:10 GMT -5
Thanks Candance! I am watching right now! It's good to have a face to your name now in my mind!!
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Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Apr 28, 2019 20:46:02 GMT -5
Thank for sharing Candance... great Testimony and so worth the watch!
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Post by John on Apr 29, 2019 4:55:44 GMT -5
Thanks for doing this video. That is a wonderful testimony. There are a few things you said that I relate to. One of them is the frustration of hearing messages on a kindergarten level all the time, and hearing just a small number of topics about the Bible, rather than doing as ministers should do, and preaching the whole counsel of the Word of God. It got to a place where you thought you had heard everything there was to be said because preachers only covered so much.
I think there are a couple of reasons for this. In many instances, that is all the ministers know is the basic John 3:16 type of messages. They know how to get saved, and everything is always about that. In the case where the minister is well versed in the Bible, yet they preach simplistic messages, that is because the congregation has not moved past a need or the basics. You said yourself you are a person that likes to read, and I would imagine that you have spent a lot of time in the Bible. That means you are well advanced past the average church goer, so most messages you hear will seem beneath your level of Bible education. I mean as a self study.
I used to do messages that would be over everyone's head, and they would not understand what I was saying. I was talking to my wife about that one time, how frustrated I was that people didn't seem to understand what I thought was simple things, and she pointed out to me that they were not simple to them. Back then, I had read the Bible over a dozen times, and the New Testament much more than that, and that is not the case for most people. What was simple things to me was not to them, so I had to learn to speak in a way that could be understood by the average person. I can't assume everybody knows everything I do. We are on different levels, and I have to take that into account. I will do these Bible trivia things online and score like 98 to 100 and think how easy the questions were, but that is not the case for everyone. I understand why some very smart preachers will sometimes seem to preach on a lower level. If a college professor was to speak to students in Middle School, he wouldn't be able to give the same lecture he would to college students. But I do relate to what you are saying about kindergarten level messages.
I also read some of the same books you did, including "Pilgrim's Progress" and "Hinds Feet In High Places." With regard to C.S. Lewis, I never read the book you mentioned, but did read "Screwtape Letters." Perhaps I will go back and read the one that got you started?
One other thing you spoke about that I can relate to is having a conversation with God. I do that a lot, just like I am talking to you, but in my case, that is since I got saved, not to get saved. I had the usual back and forth with my conscience to get saved, but that isn't what you are talking about. I mean having an actual conversation back and forth where I would talk to the Lord and receive answers. I have had that happen when I was seeking answers to something. This is something that you have to learn to do. You have to come to a place where you recognize His voice. That is how I got answers to things I really couldn't figure out on my own. That, and one time where God just suddenly opened up my understanding to something I tried to understand for years, and made it suddenly so simple, I was shocked I hadn't seen it before.
I guess I do have one question. At what point do you believe your actual salvation experience took place? Was it after you prayed that God would make himself real to you? Was it when you suddenly knew Jesus was real? When I got saved, I prayed a traditional sort of prayer where I asked God to forgive me of my past sins, I promised to live for the Lord, and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. At what point did you know you had been born again?
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 29, 2019 7:13:22 GMT -5
Thanks John ! I do understand the practical reasons why preachers stick with simple topics. It is what it is. I knew I was saved that Friday evening when I said Jesus was real and I devoted my life to Him. There was no turning back. From that point on, there was no desire to seek anything outside of Jesus. Things weren’t perfect, but I was serving Jesus no matter what. The Narnia series really is for children. At this point in your life you wouldn’t get much out of it. Samuel Richardson wrote for Christian women, so I doubt you would be fed by his books. If you’re interested in the more adult/intellectual things from CS Lewis you should look up The Weight of Glory, The Abolition of Man, Miracles, and The Four Loves. He was Anglican, so don’t expect much Pentecostal doctrine, but he defended Pentecostals in his teaching. Augustine’s Confession was historically interesting, but it didn’t teach me much theologically. Neither did Summa Theologica. Wesley’s exegesis of Scripture is much more interesting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 8:03:51 GMT -5
Bless you Candance, thanks for sharing your wonderful testimony, its lovely to meet you "in person", and I'm blessed by the kindness of the Lord to you and your family....precious how He introduced Himself to you the way He knew you needed and ministered to the needs of your heart. Isn't it wonderful how He uses the negative experiences of our lives to prepare our hearts for Him...He turns it all around for our good. I was also one who escaped into books when I was young.....completely understand how a young child feeling unloved and trying to make sense of the chaos and seeking so hard for some sense of security and stability would climb up into the refuge of his or her mind, so to speak. Children do what they can to survive, and different individuals choose different ways of coping, and then after salvation comes the task of sorting through and untangling it all. I'm glad for the salvation of your parents as well, and am sure they did their best with their level of growth and understanding at the time....and no doubt God heard their prayers for you. He knew what He was doing sending them to the people of the Appalachians....scholarly kinds of ministering in that region would not have been a good fit I'm sure, and it's wonderful how our gracious God has a place for everyone. One thing that comes to mind is how the intellect is not really our friend, it is often a roadblock to receiving the things of the Spirit....this is one reason why in less sophisticated third world countries there is often a greater manifestation of the Holy Spirit and reliance on Him. All our natural abilities need to be sanctified in any case, because it is in our weakness that His strength is made perfect. It all reminds me of the scripture that says, 1Co 1:25-29 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. As I know you understand, the gospel is for our heart/soul/spirit rather than the mind....to the natural mind it is foolishness. And our natural mind is only temporal and will perish in the grave, while only our soul/spirit lives on in eternity. It's through our hearts/spirits by faith that we are restored to life and come into relationship with our heavenly Father. I remember being so frustrated with myself at one time that I put my head on a pillow and begged the Lord to cut off my head and give me a heart instead, and I'm still a work in progress here as well. Well, this is a life-long journey and pilgrimage for us all, battles to fight and overcome, ground to take......please test this, but I believe there is an aspect that we will be rewarded maybe not so much on where we have arrived necessarily but on how far we have come. I bet you and I could grab a coffee and chat for hours. Sister, you be encouraged in the Lord and keep on pressing on in Him...much blessing to you.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 29, 2019 10:08:29 GMT -5
The New Testament says we have a right to expect good teaching. We’re told the Lord’s bondservant must be able to teach. Shepherds are supposed to be feeding us with knowledge. In fact, the apostles lamented when they had to dumb down their doctrinal teaching because people were stuck on milk. There’s nothing spiritual about rehashing John 3:16 every Sunday.
Good teaching doesn’t have to be highbrow intellectual stuff. I’ve heard some great profound teaching that was very direct. I agree with you that intellect for the sake of intellect doesn’t produce better teaching. The simpler, the better. However, this isn’t an excuse to say 2+2=5 and then call people smart alecs when they have questions. Truth isn’t messy or sloppy. It doesn’t contradict itself.
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Post by joseph on Apr 29, 2019 10:29:23 GMT -5
The New Testament says we have a right to expect good teaching.... I don't think so. People get in a lot of trouble when they expect good teaching, and are taught wrong, on forums, in churches, in sunday school, anywhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 13:04:36 GMT -5
The New Testament says we have a right to expect good teaching. We’re told the Lord’s bondservant must be able to teach. Shepherds are supposed to be feeding us with knowledge. In fact, the apostles lamented when they had to dumb down their doctrinal teaching because people were stuck on milk. There’s nothing spiritual about rehashing John 3:16 every Sunday. Good teaching doesn’t have to be highbrow intellectual stuff. I’ve heard some great profound teaching that was very direct. I agree with you that intellect for the sake of intellect doesn’t produce better teaching. The simpler, the better. However, this isn’t an excuse to say 2+2=5 and then call people smart alecs when they have questions. Truth isn’t messy or sloppy. It doesn’t contradict itself. Sorry PG4Him, I'm not sure if you are talking to me or not with this....but I have a few thoughts in response either way. Just want to stress that truth is not intellectual, it is spiritual. And can only be apprehended with the mind of Christ...which means by His Spirit. Truth is simple...if something is highbrow or complicated I question whether it is truth because truth is something that is revealed to little children and hid from the wise and learned. When the Lord reveals a thing it 'renews' our mind...ie, we're understanding it through a new mind, the mind of Christ, rather than our own intellect. Does this make sense? (I don't know whether you understand it like that or not. ) I completely agree that truth doesn't contradict itself...the carnal mind sees contradictions in the word of God...but these apparent contradictions are resolved when we understand the truth by the Spirit and mind of Christ. And even then it is humbling to realize that we only know in part. Because it's not by might, not by power, but by His Spirit...it's not by the strength of our intellects. What a strange God some might think......how can He expect us to make it when we only know in part, see in part, etc? But it's because it doesn't depend on us. It depends on Him, as we rely on Him and follow Him. Who is blind like my servant and deaf like my messenger? Blind in ourselves, deaf in ourselves. We cannot see, cannot hear...apart from the Spirit of the Lord. The natural mind is darkened but when the Lord renews our mind it brings HIS light into our darkness....light to the understanding of our spiritual eyes to see by. Faith is not of our own, lest any man should boast. And the bible says that the carnal mind (intellect, natural mind) is ENMITY with God. That is something to really ponder on.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 29, 2019 13:06:08 GMT -5
The abundance of bad teaching does not nullify the scriptural command to teach.
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ — Ephesians 4:11-12
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. — 2 Timothy 2:1-2
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. — Titus 1:9
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Post by 2fw8212a on Apr 29, 2019 13:13:10 GMT -5
The abundance of bad teaching does not nullify the scriptural command to teach. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ — Ephesians 4:11-12
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. — 2 Timothy 2:1-2
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. — Titus 1:9 I am not against teaching.
I am against putting someone in a level that you cannot challenge or test their teaching or say: You are mistaken.
It happens a lot with false teachers, some people follow them so blindly that whoever opposes their teacher is condemned (usually using Psalm 105:15).
"But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’;
for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren." - Matthew 23:8
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits,
whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1
Blessings!
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Apr 29, 2019 14:12:27 GMT -5
What I witnessed growing up was not about apparent contradictions in Scripture. It was people so illiterate you couldn’t make it through a basic Bible study lesson. They were saved because a preacher said so. What exactly was the gospel? They couldn’t tell you. Who was Jesus? The guy who saved them. I spoke to people who went to church their whole lives and didn’t even know that Jesus was Jewish. One Christian told me she liked to read about the “magic tricks” Jesus did in the Bible.
All of that OT stuff about Israel, the unfaithful wife, the unfruitful vineyard... yawn. No one wanted to talk about it. How did the OT prophesy of Jesus? That sounds like work. How could Jesus be the son of David? BOR-ING. Seriously, all these people knew what that some guy named Jesus died a long time ago and as long as they asked Him to forgive them they were saved. What little they did pick up about theology was butchered to the point it made your head hurt. Did you know the beast that brings the antichrist in Revelation was one of the four beasts that worshipped God in Isaiah 6? A beast is a beast, so it had to be the same. This teaching was seriously put forth by a Sunday School teacher who had been in church for 60 years.
Oxen in a ditch. Oh yes. It’s okay to lie when you need to lie. It’s okay to cheat on your taxes if you really need the money. The wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous, right? Cheat on those taxes! Scheme to get ahead in the workplace and trample the wicked! Success is proof that God blessed you for it!
I remember a church that justified divorce and remarriage on the grounds that when you marry “the wrong person” it doesn’t get recorded in heaven. Therefore people could divorce and remarry as often as necessary until they found their soulmate. “What God hath put together.” Yeah. When you brought up verses about adultery, you were told they only applied to soulmates. When you asked to see this soulmate thing in Scripture, you were told to stop being argumentative.
This kind of painfully bad logic was very common among my parents’ friends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 14:47:55 GMT -5
The abundance of bad teaching does not nullify the scriptural command to teach. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ — Ephesians 4:11-12
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. — 2 Timothy 2:1-2
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. — Titus 1:9 I am not against teaching.
I am against putting someone in a level that you cannot challenge or test their teaching or say: You are mistaken.
It happens a lot with false teachers, some people follow them so blindly that whoever opposes their teacher is condemned (usually using Psalm 105:15).
"But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’;
for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren." - Matthew 23:8
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits,
whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." - 1 John 4:1
Blessings!The majority of churches dont' function as a Body...they model themselves after the RCC and the world. Pastors/teachers don't see themselves or function as being just one part of the Body amongst many parts....they tend to be untouchable and hence don't benefit or get built up (corrected, instructed, reproved) by the other parts of the body. They seem to feel as though if they need to reconsider and amend something they think and teach that it would mean they are not worthy of their calling, and that is not the case.....it's an impossible expectation. The whole concept of "church" is being done wrong...it's too autocratic, and not biblical. But the bible says, "When you come together, everyone of you hath.....".....something to contribute....that the body may be built up/edified.
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Post by frienduff on Apr 29, 2019 15:17:35 GMT -5
The New Testament says we have a right to expect good teaching. We’re told the Lord’s bondservant must be able to teach. Shepherds are supposed to be feeding us with knowledge. In fact, the apostles lamented when they had to dumb down their doctrinal teaching because people were stuck on milk. There’s nothing spiritual about rehashing John 3:16 every Sunday. Good teaching doesn’t have to be highbrow intellectual stuff. I’ve heard some great profound teaching that was very direct. I agree with you that intellect for the sake of intellect doesn’t produce better teaching. The simpler, the better. However, this isn’t an excuse to say 2+2=5 and then call people smart alecs when they have questions. Truth isn’t messy or sloppy. It doesn’t contradict itself. Sorry PG4Him, I'm not sure if you are talking to me or not with this....but I have a few thoughts in response either way. Just want to stress that truth is not intellectual, it is spiritual. And can only be apprehended with the mind of Christ...which means by His Spirit. Truth is simple...if something is highbrow or complicated I question whether it is truth because truth is something that is revealed to little children and hid from the wise and learned. When the Lord reveals a thing it 'renews' our mind...ie, we're understanding it through a new mind, the mind of Christ, rather than our own intellect. Does this make sense? (I don't know whether you understand it like that or not. ) I completely agree that truth doesn't contradict itself...the carnal mind sees contradictions in the word of God...but these apparent contradictions are resolved when we understand the truth by the Spirit and mind of Christ. And even then it is humbling to realize that we only know in part. Because it's not by might, not by power, but by His Spirit...it's not by the strength of our intellects. What a strange God some might think......how can He expect us to make it when we only know in part, see in part, etc? But it's because it doesn't depend on us. It depends on Him, as we rely on Him and follow Him. Who is blind like my servant and deaf like my messenger? Blind in ourselves, deaf in ourselves. We cannot see, cannot hear...apart from the Spirit of the Lord. The natural mind is darkened but when the Lord renews our mind it brings HIS light into our darkness....light to the understanding of our spiritual eyes to see by. Faith is not of our own, lest any man should boast. And the bible says that the carnal mind (intellect, natural mind) is ENMITY with God. That is something to really ponder on. Sister you just summed up the fact we are saved SOLEY BY GRACE . Exactly . God don't reveal himself through our wisdom . HE does so through the SON and HE makes clean the mind through HIS WORD . And by HIS SPIRIT we are changed . Sister , you put those hands up now , put them up and praise the LORD . The thing is , I did not COME to CHRIST through anything of my own self , I WAS SIMPLY DRAWN BY GRACE , MAY THIRTIETH in the year of our LORD two thousand and six . HE DID IT . HE ALONE . Man that is the beauty of it . Now let us dig only more into those bibles .
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