Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 5, 2019 21:11:32 GMT -5
I am trying to figure out the significance of the Kingdom of Israel being divided into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms. Could anyone elaborate on that more?
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Post by justinadams on May 6, 2019 5:27:56 GMT -5
I am trying to figure out the significance of the Kingdom of Israel being divided into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms. Could anyone elaborate on that more? God divorced the ten tribes and focused on Judah and Benjamin. But the 10 are not forgotten. The epistles are mostly written to the so-called 'gentiles' which comprised in a goodly number members of the northern tribes. You can see that the writers understood that their readers would have an intimate knowledge of the Tanach. It is 'legal' in Hebrew thought and law processes to remarry once one of the parties has died. So it is with Yeshua, He is quite within HIS law to remarry the divorced tribes. Never EVER think that Grace has replaced the law. It augments it and validates it, else the Mercy Seat is superfluous. We must understand the Tanach to get most of what the NT teaches. The tent of meeting (Tabernacle) has been described as "the gospel in a tent". I do not expect to be popular in my views, but over many decades I have come to understand some of what the Lord intends and His driving Passion is for Israel to be united. They are His people and He chose them for many reasons and purposes.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 6, 2019 9:40:28 GMT -5
I am trying to figure out the significance of the Kingdom of Israel being divided into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms. Could anyone elaborate on that more? God divorced the ten tribes and focused on Judah and Benjamin. But the 10 are not forgotten. The epistles are mostly written to the so-called 'gentiles' which comprised in a goodly number members of the northern tribes. You can see that the writers understood that their readers would have an intimate knowledge of the Tanach. It is 'legal' in Hebrew thought and law processes to remarry once one of the parties has died. So it is with Yeshua, He is quite within HIS law to remarry the divorced tribes. Never EVER think that Grace has replaced the law. It augments it and validates it, else the Mercy Seat is superfluous. We must understand the Tanach to get most of what the NT teaches. The tent of meeting (Tabernacle) has been described as "the gospel in a tent". I do not expect to be popular in my views, but over many decades I have come to understand some of what the Lord intends and His driving Passion is for Israel to be united. They are His people and He chose them for many reasons and purposes. If it's unlawful to remarry unless one party has died... who died that God can remarry Israel? I'm still trying to learn this sorry. I am new to this whole idea.
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Post by John on May 6, 2019 9:52:24 GMT -5
God divorced the ten tribes and focused on Judah and Benjamin. But the 10 are not forgotten. The epistles are mostly written to the so-called 'gentiles' which comprised in a goodly number members of the northern tribes. You can see that the writers understood that their readers would have an intimate knowledge of the Tanach. It is 'legal' in Hebrew thought and law processes to remarry once one of the parties has died. So it is with Yeshua, He is quite within HIS law to remarry the divorced tribes. Never EVER think that Grace has replaced the law. It augments it and validates it, else the Mercy Seat is superfluous. We must understand the Tanach to get most of what the NT teaches. The tent of meeting (Tabernacle) has been described as "the gospel in a tent". I do not expect to be popular in my views, but over many decades I have come to understand some of what the Lord intends and His driving Passion is for Israel to be united. They are His people and He chose them for many reasons and purposes. If it's unlawful to remarry unless one party has died... who died that God can remarry Israel? I'm still trying to learn this sorry. I am new to this whole idea. It is not unlawful to re-marry your spouse unless you or that person married someone else in between. A couple can divorce, separate and re-marry each other.
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Post by John on May 6, 2019 9:56:03 GMT -5
I don't believe God divorced 10 tribes and married Judah. All the tribes are still one people.
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Post by Sister on May 6, 2019 10:24:32 GMT -5
Hi Dezi
I have deleted all of what I wrote because it was too long. So in short....
The house of Israel was one kingdom. Israel wanted a king to rule over them, so God gave them Saul. Saul's heart was filled with jealousy (towards David), so God made David King to rule over the whole house of Israel. David was faithful and was of the line of Judah. The tribe of Judah holds the royalty, the kingship. The Levites are the priests.
David chose his son Solomon to inherit the throne. Solomon ruled faithfully and pleased the Lord God until in his old age, he took pagan wives and served their gods. God was angry about this and the whole house of Israel was doing the same. God then divided up the house of Israel and split the 12 tribes. He gave 10 tribes to Solomon's "servant" and left Solomon with only one tribe (Judah). The tribe of Benjamin and Judah are counted as one.
When Solomon died, the kingdom was divided during the reign of his son. Since then Judah and the other 10 tribes were enemies with each other. The 10 tribes were later taken into captivity by the King of Assyria and all taken to Assyria. From there the 10 tribes learned the ways of the Assyrians and served their gods, and from there they were scattered all over the earth and are mingled with the gentiles.
Judah sinned also and God has departed from them to teach them a lesson, but he will bring them back again at Christ's return.
What happened then is a lesson for us today. Just as Israel were a called out people and walked in the commandments of the Lord, they fell away. Their kingdom is divided and scattered. God then called and prepared a way for the gentiles to come into the kingdom through Jesus Christ. The gentile Christian land has done the same thing and have taken to serving false gods just like Israel did. Only these false gods are not the gods of the past, but the gods of the material. They are worshiping things made by man's hands. In other words, they like their nice things and material possessions but cannot see it. God is doing the same with the gentile Christians and is dividing the Christian land today. Those who follow Christ in spirit and in truth are spiritually of the tribe of Judah, (Christ is of Judah), and will reign with Christ. The rest are mingled and joined to the world. Just as God will save himself a remnant from the house of Israel, he will do the same with the Christians that have polluted his temple, but they have to be purified by going through a fiery trial. But spiritual Judah is already chosen from the beginning and these are the "elect of God", hence chosen by God like David was, and Solomon etc. They will be spared from that fiery trial for they have already made their robes white. These are the 144k, of the children of Israel,...from those "lost tribes" intermingled with the gentiles who don't even know their heritage for it is so far removed. Out of all those tribes, together they make up Judah. The real Judah, and only God knows who they are.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 6, 2019 10:44:25 GMT -5
Hi Dezi
I have deleted all of what I wrote because it was too long. So in short....
The house of Israel was one kingdom. Israel wanted a king to rule over them, so God gave them Saul. Saul's heart was filled with jealousy (towards David), so God made David King to rule over the whole house of Israel. David was faithful and was of the line of Judah. The tribe of Judah holds the royalty, the kingship. The Levites are the priests.
David chose his son Solomon to inherit the throne. Solomon ruled faithfully and pleased the Lord God until in his old age, he took pagan wives and served their gods. God was angry about this and the whole house of Israel was doing the same. God then divided up the house of Israel and split the 12 tribes. He gave 10 tribes to Solomon's "servant" and left Solomon with only one tribe (Judah). The tribe of Benjamin and Judah are counted as one.
When Solomon died, the kingdom was divided during the reign of his son. Since then Judah and the other 10 tribes were enemies with each other. The 10 tribes were later taken into captivity by the King of Assyria and all taken to Assyria. From there the 10 tribes learned the ways of the Assyrians and served their gods, and from there they were scattered all over the earth and are mingled with the gentiles.
Judah sinned also and God has departed from them to teach them a lesson, but he will bring them back again at Christ's return.
What happened then is a lesson for us today. Just as Israel were a called out people and walked in the commandments of the Lord, they fell away. Their kingdom is divided and scattered. God then called and prepared a way for the gentiles to come into the kingdom through Jesus Christ. The gentile Christian land has done the same thing and have taken to serving false gods just like Israel did. Only these false gods are not the gods of the past, but the gods of the material. They are worshiping things made by man's hands. In other words, they like their nice things and material possessions but cannot see it. God is doing the same with the gentile Christians and is dividing the Christian land today. Those who follow Christ in spirit and in truth are spiritually of the tribe of Judah, (Christ is of Judah), and will reign with Christ. The rest are mingled and joined to the world. Just as God will save himself a remnant from the house of Israel, he will do the same with the Christians that have polluted his temple, but they have to be purified by going through a fiery trial. But spiritual Judah is already chosen from the beginning and these are the "elect of God", hence chosen by God like David was, and Solomon etc. They will be spared from that fiery trial for they have already made their robes white. These are the 144k, of the children of Israel,...from those "lost tribes" intermingled with the gentiles who don't even know their heritage for it is so far removed. Out of all those tribes, together they make up Judah. The real Judah, and only God knows who they are.
Thank you Sister! This was helpful but the 144k is confusing to me. The "elect" are confusing. Does it mean God has only chose certain people to be part of his Kingdom? That makes me think of Calvinism.
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Post by frienduff on May 6, 2019 12:25:55 GMT -5
God divorced the ten tribes and focused on Judah and Benjamin. But the 10 are not forgotten. The epistles are mostly written to the so-called 'gentiles' which comprised in a goodly number members of the northern tribes. You can see that the writers understood that their readers would have an intimate knowledge of the Tanach. It is 'legal' in Hebrew thought and law processes to remarry once one of the parties has died. So it is with Yeshua, He is quite within HIS law to remarry the divorced tribes. Never EVER think that Grace has replaced the law. It augments it and validates it, else the Mercy Seat is superfluous. We must understand the Tanach to get most of what the NT teaches. The tent of meeting (Tabernacle) has been described as "the gospel in a tent". I do not expect to be popular in my views, but over many decades I have come to understand some of what the Lord intends and His driving Passion is for Israel to be united. They are His people and He chose them for many reasons and purposes. If it's unlawful to remarry unless one party has died... who died that God can remarry Israel? I'm still trying to learn this sorry. I am new to this whole idea. JESUS DID . so let both jew and gentile COME TO HIM and be dead to sin , but alive unto righteousness . JESUS DIED so that both jew and gentile could be quickened , made alive , walking in LIFE and no longer in death . For all have sinned and all come short and all who believe not in CHRIST will DIE IN THEIR SINS . OH may it sink so deep into our hearts and minds , that if any man or woman had to get a EKG or an encephalogram , THE VERY WORDS , JESUS ONLY SAVES would be seen literally on their hearts . While we know that wont be possible , I used it to over emphasize the dire NEED OF JESUS .
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Post by frienduff on May 6, 2019 12:30:16 GMT -5
Let not my next words cause any to fear or to see me as a hater . BUT I HAVE DECLARED in mind body and soul , ALL OUT WAR against the inclusive lie . and may I be dead and stinking in the grave , LONG before I cease to warn against it . And or to cease even in the slightest saying JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY . And that a man must believe from the heart and confess with the mouth . Yall have a good long read on this message . For in the times and days ahead , society and all religions who unified under inclusvism will see me as only dangerous and a pontetial terrorist . Folks let all be braced solid on the LORD . And let all go out with that childlike \faith IN ONLY JESUS that they began their walk With .
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Post by Sister on May 6, 2019 13:06:29 GMT -5
Hi Dezi
No, they are not the only ones saved. The elect 144K are only the first-fruits of Christ.
Think of it like this....Just as the tribes of Israel were divided, so will the Christian land be. Just as the house of David was initially chosen to rule over the whole house of Israel, the elect will rule over the house of God during the millennium with Christ.. All serving Christ of course, as one. All who make it through are given mercy, even the elect, but the elect can be compared to David, called, chosen, and not without sin, but repented, overcame, and have a perfect heart for the Lord. These are not joined to the world and have come out of her for they have only one master.. These are those who the Lamb has fed because they hungered for truth and offered more sacrifices of the heart, perfect in God's eyes. These are those standing at the altar inside the temple, and not those in the court (Rev 14) They will be protected during the tribulation just as Israel was when they were walking in God's commandments. They will not receive the plagues, nor will see death but the rest will go through much purifying. They are saints of the end times. A select few compared to the millions. No religion, but follow Judah, the Lamb of God and have been fed from him and revealed much.
These are given a white stone with Christ's new name on it, and the rest of the Christian land has not been revealed yet because they received the wrong doctrine. When the true doctrine cannot be found in full...and because they trusted in their church leaders, and in books, and revered men, trusting them with their souls they got tricked and could not recognise it, that new name of Christ..... from the OT. The only name that has not been blasphemed because they didn't know it was him. His name has been hidden from the majority and fed to the few. When the "sealing" takes place, they will know for sure if they were given that right name, so I know about them, that they are chosen to give the Lamb glory because they loved the truth first and the truth they received will be a witness to those who cast them out simply because the others could not recognise the truth or hear that knock on the door when Christ wanted to come in to dine and give more meat.
I am very passionate about this! Yes, we should all aim to be in this category of the faithful, not because we don't want to go through the hardships that are coming, because we are all prepared to suffer all for the Lord and take that stand, just as Abraham was prepared to offer up Isaac out of obedience, but the angel stopped him in time and delivered him because it was just a test... and God knowing that this thing would cause Abraham so much sorrow, spared him from that sorrow. The sealing will take place just before the Mark of the Beast comes out, so it hasn't happened yet and we don't know who they are, but I say there are a few more to come in yet.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 6, 2019 13:55:14 GMT -5
Hi Dezi
No, they are not the only ones saved. The elect 144K are only the first-fruits of Christ.
Think of it like this....Just as the tribes of Israel were divided, so will the Christian land be. Just as the house of David was initially chosen to rule over the whole house of Israel, the elect will rule over the house of God during the millennium with Christ.. All serving Christ of course, as one. All who make it through are given mercy, even the elect, but the elect can be compared to David, called, chosen, and not without sin, but repented, overcame, and have a perfect heart for the Lord. These are not joined to the world and have come out of her for they have only one master.. These are those who the Lamb has fed because they hungered for truth and offered more sacrifices of the heart, perfect in God's eyes. These are those standing at the altar inside the temple, and not those in the court (Rev 14) They will be protected during the tribulation just as Israel was when they were walking in God's commandments. They will not receive the plagues, nor will see death but the rest will go through much purifying. They are saints of the end times. A select few compared to the millions. No religion, but follow Judah, the Lamb of God and have been fed from him and revealed much.
These are given a white stone with Christ's new name on it, and the rest of the Christian land has not been revealed yet because they received the wrong doctrine. When the true doctrine cannot be found in full...and because they trusted in their church leaders, and in books, and revered men, trusting them with their souls they got tricked and could not recognise it, that new name of Christ..... from the OT. The only name that has not been blasphemed because they didn't know it was him. His name has been hidden from the majority and fed to the few. When the "sealing" takes place, they will know for sure if they were given that right name, so I know about them, that they are chosen to give the Lamb glory because they loved the truth first and the truth they received will be a witness to those who cast them out simply because the others could not recognise the truth or hear that knock on the door when Christ wanted to come in to dine and give more meat.
I am very passionate about this! Yes, we should all aim to be in this category of the faithful, not because we don't want to go through the hardships that are coming, because we are all prepared to suffer all for the Lord and take that stand, just as Abraham was prepared to offer up Isaac out of obedience, but the angel stopped him in time and delivered him because it was just a test... and God knowing that this thing would cause Abraham so much sorrow, spared him from that sorrow. The sealing will take place just before the Mark of the Beast comes out, so it hasn't happened yet and we don't know who they are, but I say there are a few more to come in yet.
The elect are Jews that have been saved before Christ returns? So, there are still some that have not been saved yet? Once this happens the Rapture will take place?
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Post by John on May 6, 2019 16:22:18 GMT -5
The elect to me are those God created and foreknew would be saved. That certainly applies to Jews who will come to the faith. The majority of the Jews will come to Jesus in the middle of the tribulation period.
As far as the rapture goes, I am pre-trib, so I believe the rapture takes place first, but many here are post-trib, and they believe the rapture will occur afterward.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 6, 2019 18:03:57 GMT -5
The elect to me are those God created and foreknew would be saved. That certainly applies to Jews who will come to the faith. The majority of the Jews will come to Jesus in the middle of the tribulation period.
As far as the rapture goes, I am pre-trib, so I believe the rapture takes place first, but many here are post-trib, and they believe the rapture will occur afterward.
I was always taught pre-trib but now I really don't know. It is very difficult to figure out from scripture. I've heard arguments for all the sides.
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Post by John on May 6, 2019 18:09:40 GMT -5
The elect to me are those God created and foreknew would be saved. That certainly applies to Jews who will come to the faith. The majority of the Jews will come to Jesus in the middle of the tribulation period.
As far as the rapture goes, I am pre-trib, so I believe the rapture takes place first, but many here are post-trib, and they believe the rapture will occur afterward.
I was always taught pre-trib but now I really don't know. It is very difficult to figure out from scripture. I've heard arguments for all the sides. There are good arguments on both sides. The way I figure it, if you are always living right and prepared for the return of the Lord, you will be fine. If the rapture is before the tribulation, you will be gone before it occurs. If you find yourself going through the great tribulation, you should recognize it, and then you will know that the Lord's returning will happen approximately 7 years from when it all begins.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 6, 2019 18:25:06 GMT -5
I was always taught pre-trib but now I really don't know. It is very difficult to figure out from scripture. I've heard arguments for all the sides. There are good arguments on both sides. The way I figure it, if you are always living right and prepared for the return of the Lord, you will be fine. If the rapture is before the tribulation, you will be gone before it occurs. If you find yourself going through the great tribulation, you should recognize it, and then you will know that the Lord's returning will happen approximately 7 years from when it all begins.
Yes... I just want to make sure I am prepared for whatever we must face. I have a feeling not many people realize how much we are going to endure whether we go in the rapture before, during, or after.
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