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Post by frienduff on May 29, 2019 19:42:57 GMT -5
I've heard so many arguments for both sides of this question that I am just more confused than ever now. Our views are all different, but there has been one thing in common. Everyone here has said they believe that divorce and re-marriage, except for the case of adultery is not allowed. The differences appear over divorce, and what is acceptable grounds for that.
What we should all know is simply this . I will use me as an example . Me and my wife got a divorce , and later I came to Christ . So was I forgiven for the divorce . YOU BET . But would it be adultery if I remarried , YOU BET . If one sins they have to confess it and repent of it . We all agree on that . But willfull sin is sin that has no sacrifice for sins so long as one remains in it and refuses to repent of it . Thus notice JESUS said , ITS ADULTERY IF they REMARRY . notice paul says , so she will be called an adulteress if she is married to another man so long as her first husband lives . WILLFULL SIN , not repented of , for we know no adulterer or ess will see the Kingdom of GOD . THUS the solution , TERMINATE the marriage not recognized by GOD but seen only as Adultery in the eyes of WHOM nothing is hidden , GOD . Folks forget the REPENT part aint just saying OH LORD me so sorry , its the REPENTED OF THE VERY DEED ITSELF as in CEASE to do the evil and learn to do the GOOD . If a Christian man or women got a divorce , evil as that is , They can be forgiven , BUT MUST REMAIN SINGLE . cannot remarry or as long as they in that marriage , ITS ADULTERY ONLY . And they can say ten thousand times a day from morning till midnight , WE SO SORRY , but it wont matter , THEY must cease that marriage to be restored in the EYES of the LORD . That goes with any sin. If a gay man , came to CHRIST , but then returned to the pit of that act and was with another man , He could feel sorry all day , BUT the fact remains HE AINT FORGIVEN lest he repent , cease the act . SORROW , or GODLY SORROW works to REPENTANCE . FEELING THE SORROW is not enough IF its true godly sorrow , THEN IT LEADS TO TOTAL REPENTANCE . If its oh , me so sorry LORD yet they remain in the sin , that is the sorrow of death only .
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Post by Giller on May 30, 2019 1:22:01 GMT -5
Gen 2:24 (24) Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
When a man is married, he cleaves to his wife.
And I love this next explanation on cleaving:
(John Gill)
(...and shall cleave unto his wife; with a cordial affection, taking care of her, nourishing and cherishing her, providing all things comfortable for her, continuing to live with her, and not depart from her as long as they live: the phrase is expressive of the near union by marriage between man and wife; they are, as it were, glued together, and make but one; which is more fully and strongly expressed in the next clause:...)
And of course the 2 become one flesh, which a marriage should be eventually consummated in the act of love making.
But love making itself, does not make you married:
1Co 7:2 (2) Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
See here it is not saying, have sex and then you are married, but rather first of all, have your own husband or wife, and only once you are married, then you can participate in love making.
Fornication here refers to sex before marriage, which tells us that sex itself does not make you married.
You may consummate the marriage through love making, but it, itself does not make you married, otherwise, sex before marriage should not exist.
Mal 2:14 (14) Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
Marriage is a covenant between 2 people.
It is a covenant of cleaving to one another, it is a covenant of commitment, it is a covenant of giving ourselves over one to the other in a union, in a marriage, you can say till death do us part.
But people who shack up, and just have a friend for benefits type of relationship, that is not a commitment, that is not a marriage, that is not giving yourself over fully to one another.
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Post by John on May 30, 2019 7:01:27 GMT -5
Good thoughts Giller, and I will add something else about the marriage union. I believe there is a spiritual side to becoming one flesh with your spouse. Eve was formed from one of Adam's ribs, so when a man and woman are married, that part of him that was removed is restored back.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on May 30, 2019 11:16:29 GMT -5
Our views are all different, but there has been one thing in common. Everyone here has said they believe that divorce and re-marriage, except for the case of adultery is not allowed. The differences appear over divorce, and what is acceptable grounds for that.
What we should all know is simply this . I will use me as an example . Me and my wife got a divorce , and later I came to Christ . So was I forgiven for the divorce . YOU BET . But would it be adultery if I remarried , YOU BET . If one sins they have to confess it and repent of it . We all agree on that . But willfull sin is sin that has no sacrifice for sins so long as one remains in it and refuses to repent of it . Thus notice JESUS said , ITS ADULTERY IF they REMARRY . notice paul says , so she will be called an adulteress if she is married to another man so long as her first husband lives . WILLFULL SIN , not repented of , for we know no adulterer or ess will see the Kingdom of GOD . THUS the solution , TERMINATE the marriage not recognized by GOD but seen only as Adultery in the eyes of WHOM nothing is hidden , GOD . Folks forget the REPENT part aint just saying OH LORD me so sorry , its the REPENTED OF THE VERY DEED ITSELF as in CEASE to do the evil and learn to do the GOOD . If a Christian man or women got a divorce , evil as that is , They can be forgiven , BUT MUST REMAIN SINGLE . cannot remarry or as long as they in that marriage , ITS ADULTERY ONLY . And they can say ten thousand times a day from morning till midnight , WE SO SORRY , but it wont matter , THEY must cease that marriage to be restored in the EYES of the LORD . That goes with any sin. If a gay man , came to CHRIST , but then returned to the pit of that act and was with another man , He could feel sorry all day , BUT the fact remains HE AINT FORGIVEN lest he repent , cease the act . SORROW , or GODLY SORROW works to REPENTANCE . FEELING THE SORROW is not enough IF its true godly sorrow , THEN IT LEADS TO TOTAL REPENTANCE . If its oh , me so sorry LORD yet they remain in the sin , that is the sorrow of death only .
Let me understand what you are saying... So, if a man is married and cheats on his wife... they divorce and he remarries a woman that has never been married before... he is committing adultery the whole time he is supposedly married to the second wife and she is too? Then, you are saying that marriage has to be dissolved even if there are children involved? Everyone is committing adultery in this second marriage?
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Post by Giller on May 30, 2019 11:56:02 GMT -5
Good thoughts Giller, and I will add something else about the marriage union. I believe there is a spiritual side to becoming one flesh with your spouse. Eve was formed from one of Adam's ribs, so when a man and woman are married, that part of him that was removed is restored back.
Hmmm, never heard things said that way, something I will have to ponder upon.
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Post by John on May 30, 2019 12:02:32 GMT -5
Good thoughts Giller, and I will add something else about the marriage union. I believe there is a spiritual side to becoming one flesh with your spouse. Eve was formed from one of Adam's ribs, so when a man and woman are married, that part of him that was removed is restored back.
Hmmm, never heard things said that way, something I will have to ponder upon. You may not hear it anywhere else, as it is something I believe the Lord showed me. That is one reason why only a man and woman can have a real marriage and become one flesh. It also means that even if a couple is unable to have a sexual relationship due to health problems or other things, it is still a real marriage.
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Post by John on May 30, 2019 12:06:05 GMT -5
What we should all know is simply this . I will use me as an example . Me and my wife got a divorce , and later I came to Christ . So was I forgiven for the divorce . YOU BET . But would it be adultery if I remarried , YOU BET . If one sins they have to confess it and repent of it . We all agree on that . But willfull sin is sin that has no sacrifice for sins so long as one remains in it and refuses to repent of it . Thus notice JESUS said , ITS ADULTERY IF they REMARRY . notice paul says , so she will be called an adulteress if she is married to another man so long as her first husband lives . WILLFULL SIN , not repented of , for we know no adulterer or ess will see the Kingdom of GOD . THUS the solution , TERMINATE the marriage not recognized by GOD but seen only as Adultery in the eyes of WHOM nothing is hidden , GOD . Folks forget the REPENT part aint just saying OH LORD me so sorry , its the REPENTED OF THE VERY DEED ITSELF as in CEASE to do the evil and learn to do the GOOD . If a Christian man or women got a divorce , evil as that is , They can be forgiven , BUT MUST REMAIN SINGLE . cannot remarry or as long as they in that marriage , ITS ADULTERY ONLY . And they can say ten thousand times a day from morning till midnight , WE SO SORRY , but it wont matter , THEY must cease that marriage to be restored in the EYES of the LORD . That goes with any sin. If a gay man , came to CHRIST , but then returned to the pit of that act and was with another man , He could feel sorry all day , BUT the fact remains HE AINT FORGIVEN lest he repent , cease the act . SORROW , or GODLY SORROW works to REPENTANCE . FEELING THE SORROW is not enough IF its true godly sorrow , THEN IT LEADS TO TOTAL REPENTANCE . If its oh , me so sorry LORD yet they remain in the sin , that is the sorrow of death only .
Let me understand what you are saying... So, if a man is married and cheats on his wife... they divorce and he remarries a woman that has never been married before... he is committing adultery the whole time he is supposedly married to the second wife and she is too? Then, you are saying that marriage has to be dissolved even if there are children involved? Everyone is committing adultery in this second marriage? Dezi, I don't agree with that position. If a man cheated on his wife, and his wife put him away for adultery, that marriage is dissolved, as far as I am concerned. The decision to divorce him is up to her. She doesn't have to put him away, and if she chooses not to, he is not free to divorce her. Still, if the marriage is dissolved because of adultery, it is dissolved. How can you commit adultery again if you are not married? That is my opinion, but as you have seen, we don't all see eye to eye on this. That is why I highly recommend that you carefully study all the scriptures yourself to see what fits.
I didn't really take what Frienduff said the way you did, so I am not sure we really disagree.
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Post by joseph on May 30, 2019 13:29:01 GMT -5
No, the decision to divorce is not "up to her" IF she is a slave of righteousness, child of Yahuweh, born again believer.
No, according to the Bible, a marriage is NOT dissolved by nor because of adultery.
Rather than "carefully study all the scriptures yourself to see what fits" , which DOES NOT WORK (as it is in and from the flesh),
ASK YAHUWEH (God) FOR WISDOM, FOR TRUTH, (which is ALWAYS TOTALLY in line with all Scripure) and rely on Him and trust Him totally, every day, for all things, in every thing.
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Post by joseph on May 30, 2019 13:32:41 GMT -5
What we should all know is simply this . I will use me as an example . Me and my wife got a divorce , and later I came to Christ . So was I forgiven for the divorce . YOU BET . But would it be adultery if I remarried , YOU BET . If one sins they have to confess it and repent of it . We all agree on that . But willfull sin is sin that has no sacrifice for sins so long as one remains in it and refuses to repent of it . Thus notice JESUS said , ITS ADULTERY IF they REMARRY .
notice paul says , so she will be called an adulteress if she is married to another man so long as her first husband lives . WILLFULL SIN , not repented of , for we know no adulterer or ess will see the Kingdom of GOD . THUS the solution , TERMINATE the marriage not recognized by GOD but seen only as Adultery in the eyes of WHOM nothing is hidden , GOD . Folks forget the REPENT part aint just saying OH LORD me so sorry , its the REPENTED OF THE VERY DEED ITSELF as in CEASE to do the evil and learn to do the GOOD . If a Christian man or women got a divorce , evil as that is , They can be forgiven , BUT MUST REMAIN SINGLE . cannot remarry or as long as they in that marriage , ITS ADULTERY ONLY . And they can say ten thousand times a day from morning till midnight , WE SO SORRY , but it wont matter , THEY must cease that marriage to be restored in the EYES of the LORD . That goes with any sin. If a gay man , came to CHRIST , but then returned to the pit of that act and was with another man , He could feel sorry all day , BUT the fact remains HE AINT FORGIVEN lest he repent , cease the act . SORROW , or GODLY SORROW works to REPENTANCE . FEELING THE SORROW is not enough IF its true godly sorrow , THEN IT LEADS TO TOTAL REPENTANCE . If its oh , me so sorry LORD yet they remain in the sin , that is the sorrow of death only .
AMEN. What Jesus says Himself, and through His Apostles also, is TRUTH. Not to be changed today by anyone, nor by any culture, nor by any force of men or of demons.
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Post by John on May 30, 2019 13:57:51 GMT -5
Once again we see how everyone's opinion differs to one degree or another. All of this is the result of disagreeing over what to do when people failed to follow God's plan from the start of one marriage that lasts till death do you part. Do things God's way all along, we don't have to try and solve messes.
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Post by Giller on Jun 1, 2019 22:53:15 GMT -5
In studying Matthew 5:21-44, over and over again, which one aspect of it speaks of divorce, it seems that some of the main things covered, is how Christ mentions verses from the old testament, and how he corrects certain errors of the Scribes and Pharisees, and in some cases, the things mentioned afterwards, are not mentioned under the old covenant, yet in certain cases, they are mentioned , but in a limited form, thus, Christ truly bringing these things up to a higher standard, in the new covenant, which you will see if you read things carefully.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jun 2, 2019 9:35:11 GMT -5
Christ truly bringing these things up to a higher standard, in the new covenant... "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." - John 1:17
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Post by John on Jun 2, 2019 11:15:41 GMT -5
In studying Matthew 5:21-44, over and over again, which one aspect of it speaks of divorce, it seems that some of the main things covered, is how Christ mentions verses from the old testament, and how he corrects certain errors of the Scribes and Pharisees, and in some cases, the things mentioned afterwards, are not mentioned under the old covenant, yet in certain cases, they are mentioned , but in a limited form, thus, Christ truly bringing these things up to a higher standard, in the new covenant, which you will see if you read things carefully. Is Jesus raising the standard, or did the religious leaders lower it? I believe that Jesus is telling us God's heart, how he really feels and how he meant things all along.
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Post by Giller on Jun 2, 2019 13:08:02 GMT -5
In studying Matthew 5:21-44, over and over again, which one aspect of it speaks of divorce, it seems that some of the main things covered, is how Christ mentions verses from the old testament, and how he corrects certain errors of the Scribes and Pharisees, and in some cases, the things mentioned afterwards, are not mentioned under the old covenant, yet in certain cases, they are mentioned , but in a limited form, thus, Christ truly bringing these things up to a higher standard, in the new covenant, which you will see if you read things carefully. Is Jesus raising the standard, or did the religious leaders lower it? I believe that Jesus is telling us God's heart, how he really feels and how he meant things all along.
I think that no doubt the religious leaders in some fashion were lowering the bar, but also I think in the realm of Jesus showing us how he feels all along, and raising the standard, I believe it is both.
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Post by joseph on Jun 6, 2019 16:54:05 GMT -5
What we should all know is simply this . I will use me as an example . Me and my wife got a divorce , and later I came to Christ . So was I forgiven for the divorce . YOU BET . But would it be adultery if I remarried , YOU BET . If one sins they have to confess it and repent of it . We all agree on that . But willfull sin is sin that has no sacrifice for sins so long as one remains in it and refuses to repent of it . Thus notice JESUS said , ITS ADULTERY IF they REMARRY . notice paul says , so she will be called an adulteress if she is married to another man so long as her first husband lives . WILLFULL SIN , not repented of , for we know no adulterer or ess will see the Kingdom of GOD . THUS the solution , TERMINATE the marriage not recognized by GOD but seen only as Adultery in the eyes of WHOM nothing is hidden , GOD . Folks forget the REPENT part aint just saying OH LORD me so sorry , its the REPENTED OF THE VERY DEED ITSELF as in CEASE to do the evil and learn to do the GOOD . If a Christian man or women got a divorce , evil as that is , They can be forgiven , BUT MUST REMAIN SINGLE . cannot remarry or as long as they in that marriage , ITS ADULTERY ONLY . And they can say ten thousand times a day from morning till midnight , WE SO SORRY , but it wont matter , THEY must cease that marriage to be restored in the EYES of the LORD . That goes with any sin. If a gay man , came to CHRIST , but then returned to the pit of that act and was with another man , He could feel sorry all day , BUT the fact remains HE AINT FORGIVEN lest he repent , cease the act . SORROW , or GODLY SORROW works to REPENTANCE . FEELING THE SORROW is not enough IF its true godly sorrow , THEN IT LEADS TO TOTAL REPENTANCE . If its oh , me so sorry LORD yet they remain in the sin , that is the sorrow of death only .
Let me understand what you are saying... So, if a man is married and cheats on his wife... they divorce and he remarries a woman that has never been married before... he is committing adultery the whole time he is supposedly married to the second wife and she is too? Then, you are saying that marriage has to be dissolved even if there are children involved? Everyone is committing adultery in this second marriage? As written in Scripture, without changing anything, yes to the last question. Continuing , but not to make an excuse, repenting of the sin depends on Yahuweh and what He directs, in harmony with all Scripture. Only a few find out, that repentance may not mean committing sin again by committing another sin of divorce, adding sin to sin. Also few ever find out that yes, they must needs repent, just as Scripture says - after all, they sinned, and without repentance is no forgiveness... Thus many many in the churches are living every day in adultery, and those who agree with them as if it is okay, or those who are silent when they know sin was committed, will share the same judgment as those who sinned and who did not repent receive (this is true of any sin perhaps , not just adultery)...... so a church full of people watching a couple live in sin and not even saying anything to them, rather staying quiet about that, will share the consequences of the sin, each and every one who God holds accountable according to His Written Word, with perfect judgment and justice.
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