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Post by Giller on Jul 13, 2019 8:47:11 GMT -5
When I just mention the faith plus nothing saying, I am meaning of speaking against this saying.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 13, 2019 12:22:56 GMT -5
Yep faith without works Is dead . Folks don't realize that works actually PERFECT OUR FAITH . WHO we obey IS WHOSE WE ARE . And that cannot be denied .
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Post by Giller on Jul 14, 2019 8:57:22 GMT -5
Jas 2:17 (17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 (18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:22 (22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
The question is, is how is faith made perfect by works?
Is it because works is the means by which we are saved?
Absolutely not.
As Ephesians says, not of works lest any man should boast.
But rather, if true faith is exercise, it will bring in the results of Christ's works in us, and through us.
Now we do not get faith by works, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God, but rather works will come as a result of our faith being put to action.
True biblical faith will have actions to it.
And the way faith is made perfect by works, is not in the sense that works saves us, but rather that works will result from true godly faith being placed in Christ's finished work.
So in the sense of works being the result of faith, in that way it brings faith to be made perfect, for it brings in the end result sort of speak, and we can always go deeper in faith.
Jas 2:14 (14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
When we walk in the sanctification process, it brings a change in us, and will eventually result in works, saving faith has results to it.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 14, 2019 9:20:57 GMT -5
The question is, is how is faith made perfect by works? “...by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.” - Deuteronomy 19:15
That means, you can say whatever you want but is the fruit of your actions and your words that will confirm who you serve indeed.
“...Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” - James 2:18
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” - Luke 6:46
There are many hypocrite people who say 'Lord, Lord' but their hearts are far from Him.
Because, if you needed to do something you did not know how and I tell you:
Go and do this or that and you will succeed.
Will not you obey it?!
“...Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?” - Hebrews 12:9
“And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”” - Luke 10:28As Ephesians says, not of works lest any man should boast. Some people use this verse in Ephesians to justify their wicked and careless behavior.
But what this verse means is that we are saved by grace through faith, and we were dead in our sins when we believed and received forgiveness.
That means we were sinners that were living in sin when we were called. None of us was right with God when He called us.
“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off
have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” - Ephesians 2:13
“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked
according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience...” - Ephesians 2:1-2
Blessings in Jesus' name!
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Post by frienduff on Jul 14, 2019 12:48:57 GMT -5
The question is, is how is faith made perfect by works? “...by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.” - Deuteronomy 19:15
That means, you can say whatever you want but is the fruit of your actions and your words that will confirm who you serve indeed.
“...Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” - James 2:18
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” - Luke 6:46
There are many hypocrite people who say 'Lord, Lord' but their hearts are far from Him.
Because, if you needed to do something you did not know how and I tell you:
Go and do this or that and you will succeed.
Will not you obey it?!
“...Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?” - Hebrews 12:9
“And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”” - Luke 10:28As Ephesians says, not of works lest any man should boast. Some people use this verse in Ephesians to justify their wicked and careless behavior.
But what this verse means is that we are saved by grace through faith, and we were dead in our sins when we believed and received forgiveness.
That means we were sinners that were living in sin when we were called. None of us was right with God when He called us.
“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off
have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” - Ephesians 2:13
“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked
according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience...” - Ephesians 2:1-2
Blessings in Jesus' name!Say it again letters , say it again . Who knows this lil exhortation , might just find its way to WCF.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 14, 2019 15:57:11 GMT -5
i have a lot more peace now that i have decided to no longer strive with false teachers.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 14, 2019 16:03:34 GMT -5
Cletus you mean something like this?
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 14, 2019 16:14:31 GMT -5
Cletus you mean something like this? LoLz.
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Post by John on Jul 15, 2019 9:48:55 GMT -5
I don't think that would do our computer or head much good.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 16, 2019 12:35:20 GMT -5
Even though it's probably frustrating to keep debating OSAS, I get a lot out of reading the conversations.
I've been taught to in the past that if I wanted to obey God more, I had to rest in God's grace. But the Bible doesn't say that.
I've been taught Hyper-Grace.
Honestly, it's hard to imagine all those preachers and teachers teaching this are all promoting false teaching.
Right now I'm still not understanding OSAS vs Non OSAS but I'm a bit shocked at how Hyper-Grace is being taught every-where.
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2019 12:53:37 GMT -5
Both sides believe we are saved by grace through faith in Christ. The OSAS side claims that when you get saved, any sin you did: past, present and future are automatically under the blood of Jesus, so you could be a rapist or even a serial killer and go to heaven just because you believe Jesus is the Son of God. The non-OSAS side believe when we get saved, all past sins are washed away, and things we do without meaning to sin are under the blood, but a true believer will not continue to live like the devil. That shows you really are not a person of faith. If you continue in sin without repenting, you were never really saved or you will lose your salvation.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Aug 11, 2019 21:46:01 GMT -5
BB and those he promotes are false teachers. Faith plus nothing is a lie! It does not agree with scripture. Paul never said that. Jesus never said that. None of the other Apostles ever said that. It is a lie! I seriously doubt that anyone teaching that really knows the Lord. They may claim they do, but I stand in doubt of them, if for no other reason than they are teaching people things contrary to sound doctrine, that if practiced, will send them to hell. God will not overlook the damage people like BB are doing. They will have to give account for the souls that are eternally damned because they believed their lies, and didn't bother to repent. Keep sounding the warnings. Someone may be listening.
That is true. We look at them as deceived, and sometimes think that because of that, they will get a pass, but that is not so. They are not just harming themselves with their false doctrine, but they are taking others down with them, and they will have to answer to God for that. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. I don't know of any scripture that says faith plus nothing.
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Post by John on Aug 11, 2019 22:49:18 GMT -5
BB and those he promotes are false teachers. Faith plus nothing is a lie! It does not agree with scripture. Paul never said that. Jesus never said that. None of the other Apostles ever said that. It is a lie! I seriously doubt that anyone teaching that really knows the Lord. They may claim they do, but I stand in doubt of them, if for no other reason than they are teaching people things contrary to sound doctrine, that if practiced, will send them to hell. God will not overlook the damage people like BB are doing. They will have to give account for the souls that are eternally damned because they believed their lies, and didn't bother to repent. Keep sounding the warnings. Someone may be listening.
That is true. We look at them as deceived, and sometimes think that because of that, they will get a pass, but that is not so. They are not just harming themselves with their false doctrine, but they are taking others down with them, and they will have to answer to God for that. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. I don't know of any scripture that says faith plus nothing. Many years ago, I heard a preacher tell of a man who had a vision of hell. He was noticing there was a man walking through the flames, grabbing one person after another by the hair, lifting them up, and then dropping them back down into the fire. He asked what this man was doing, and he was told that he was looking for the man who told him that his soul was right with God and he had nothing to fear. A lot of people are going to have blood on their hands for telling people they don't need to repent of their sins to be saved, and while all unsaved people go to hell, the Bible seems to indicate the punishment is greater for some than for others. I believe that people that turn people away from repentance will be tormented far worse than those who just continued in their own sinful lifestyle without dragging others down with them.
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Post by solid on Aug 12, 2019 14:16:40 GMT -5
That is true. We look at them as deceived, and sometimes think that because of that, they will get a pass, but that is not so. They are not just harming themselves with their false doctrine, but they are taking others down with them, and they will have to answer to God for that. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. I don't know of any scripture that says faith plus nothing. Many years ago, I heard a preacher tell of a man who had a vision of hell. He was noticing there was a man walking through the flames, grabbing one person after another by the hair, lifting them up, and then dropping them back down into the fire. He asked what this man was doing, and he was told that he was looking for the man who told him that his soul was right with God and he had nothing to fear. A lot of people are going to have blood on their hands for telling people they don't need to repent of their sins to be saved, and while all unsaved people go to hell, the Bible seems to indicate the punishment is greater for some than for others. I believe that people that turn people away from repentance will be tormented far worse than those who just continued in their own sinful lifestyle without dragging others down with them. Real vision or a story making a point, if you defend sin as ok, I believe you will share in the punishment of those that believed the lies and went to hell.
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Post by John on Aug 12, 2019 14:20:17 GMT -5
Many years ago, I heard a preacher tell of a man who had a vision of hell. He was noticing there was a man walking through the flames, grabbing one person after another by the hair, lifting them up, and then dropping them back down into the fire. He asked what this man was doing, and he was told that he was looking for the man who told him that his soul was right with God and he had nothing to fear. A lot of people are going to have blood on their hands for telling people they don't need to repent of their sins to be saved, and while all unsaved people go to hell, the Bible seems to indicate the punishment is greater for some than for others. I believe that people that turn people away from repentance will be tormented far worse than those who just continued in their own sinful lifestyle without dragging others down with them. Real vision or a story making a point, if you defend sin as ok, I believe you will share in the punishment of those that believed the lies and went to hell. I think so too.
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