PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Jul 11, 2019 13:27:46 GMT -5
Father God could not be the God He is without a Son of His own nature. He isn’t our Father because He created us, and He didn’t become Father by birthing Jesus or adopting us. To say He became a Father is to say there was a time when He wasn’t Father, and that is impossible. Did Jesus call Him Father because He eternally was so, or because this fatherhood thing was a new phenomenon? Our redemption story is so amazingly important that we changed the actual nature of an eternal God? Or do you think Father is a figure of speech? Is He really adopting us? Into His family? If He has no divine Son, then what family is there? You mean just a chosen man who kinda-sorta became His Son? That’s not much of a family, and it doesn’t promise us much of an adoption. That’s not how good Fathers operate.
His Son was eternally with Him, as a real Son He loved and cherished, long before we were a blip on the radar. To say otherwise is to say our God suddenly started loving, sacrificing, and having a family around the time that we showed up.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jul 11, 2019 13:57:13 GMT -5
Did Jesus call Him Father because He eternally was so, or because this fatherhood thing was a new phenomenon? I believe it is because He is the Father (Creator) of all things.
“...Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?” - Hebrews 12:9
“...These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God...” - Revelation 3:14
“...God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.” - Genesis 1:3
“Your word is a lamp to my feet
And a light to my path.” - Psalm 119:105
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” - John 1:14
“Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying,
“I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”” - John 8:12
I believe that God - The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit... are precisely the same Spirit just in different forms and authority.
“For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell...” - Colossians 1:19
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?
The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.” - John 14:10
Blessings!
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Post by joseph on Jul 11, 2019 14:02:46 GMT -5
Mankind corrupted the image of God throughout all society, for thousands of years.
We all were born and grew up in a society that is evil, death dealing, an enemy of God.
Learning the truth is rare, as "few find the narrow road to life".
As Jesus Proclaimed in Prayer Openly our loud: "The Heavenly Father Reveals Salvation to little children, and hides it from the educated.... for thus it was His Good Pleasure so to do".....
His Word Declares His Majesty and His Power and His Glory and the Reality as He Pleases, and He REJOICES OVER US WITH SONG AND WITH DANCING, as He is Well-pleased so to do. As He Chose To Do, as He Chooses To Do. As His Word Says.
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Post by justinadams on Jul 11, 2019 17:18:44 GMT -5
Father God could not be the God He is without a Son of His own nature. He isn’t our Father because He created us, and He didn’t become Father by birthing Jesus or adopting us. To say He became a Father is to say there was a time when He wasn’t Father, and that is impossible. Did Jesus call Him Father because He eternally was so, or because this fatherhood thing was a new phenomenon? Our redemption story is so amazingly important that we changed the actual nature of an eternal God? Or do you think Father is a figure of speech? Is He really adopting us? Into His family? If He has no divine Son, then what family is there? You mean just a chosen man who kinda-sorta became His Son? That’s not much of a family, and it doesn’t promise us much of an adoption. That’s not how good Fathers operate. His Son was eternally with Him, as a real Son He loved and cherished, long before we were a blip on the radar. To say otherwise is to say our God suddenly started loving, sacrificing, and having a family around the time that we showed up. We cannot be sure how long the spirit sons of God were around, but Job tells us they shouted for joy at the creation. Psalm 82 and Deut. 32 tells us how some of them let God down badly and were cast down to eventually 'die like men'. There are many more passages, but it seemed that the Lord wanted to create humans in His image - like Him in character and freedom and creativity etc. Let us make man in our image... He wanted a 'blended' family. The story is long and involved, but God had already thought of 'family' before creation. Since for spirit beings, time is not extant, even if we knew how long in earth years, it would probably blow our minds away...
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Post by justinadams on Jul 12, 2019 13:37:26 GMT -5
Mankind corrupted the image of God throughout all society, for thousands of years. We all were born and grew up in a society that is evil, death dealing, an enemy of God. Learning the truth is rare, as "few find the narrow road to life". As Jesus Proclaimed in Prayer Openly our loud: "The Heavenly Father Reveals Salvation to little children, and hides it from the educated.... for thus it was His Good Pleasure so to do"..... His Word Declares His Majesty and His Power and His Glory and the Reality as He Pleases, and He REJOICES OVER US WITH SONG AND WITH DANCING, as He is Well-pleased so to do. As He Chose To Do, as He Chooses To Do. As His Word Says. It was not only mankind. Spirits that sinned with mankind and taught them all kinds of horrors and then misled the nations and caused them to sacrifice to them (pagan deities). They played a huge part in all this. See psalm 82 and Deut. 32 and Is. 14 and many other references to 'the sons of God'. Yes mankind was real dumb, bit the evils that came from outside were far more wicked - that is why there in NO forgiveness for them and 'they will die like men'.
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Post by joseph on Jul 12, 2019 14:24:24 GMT -5
Mankind corrupted the image of God throughout all society, for thousands of years. We all were born and grew up in a society that is evil, death dealing, an enemy of God. Learning the truth is rare, as "few find the narrow road to life". As Jesus Proclaimed in Prayer Openly our loud: "The Heavenly Father Reveals Salvation to little children, and hides it from the educated.... for thus it was His Good Pleasure so to do"..... His Word Declares His Majesty and His Power and His Glory and the Reality as He Pleases, and He REJOICES OVER US WITH SONG AND WITH DANCING, as He is Well-pleased so to do. As He Chose To Do, as He Chooses To Do. As His Word Says. It was not only mankind. Spirits that sinned with mankind and taught them all kinds of horrors and then misled the nations and caused them to sacrifice to them (pagan deities). They played a huge part in all this. See psalm 82 and Deut. 32 and Is. 14 and many other references to 'the sons of God'. Yes mankind was real dumb, bit the evils that came from outside were far more wicked - that is why there in NO forgiveness for them and 'they will die like men'. Scripture gives many warnings not to be carried away with any winds of doctrine (there are many , many, today) . In Scripture, it is NOT written, that that is why there is no forgiveness for them. There is no indication ever that Yahuweh nor Yahushua ever planned to help the fallen angels ever, at all; rather that they were always destined for the lake of fire - there was never any secret future or otherwise that Yahuweh did not always know.
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Post by justinadams on Jul 12, 2019 16:17:59 GMT -5
It was not only mankind. Spirits that sinned with mankind and taught them all kinds of horrors and then misled the nations and caused them to sacrifice to them (pagan deities). They played a huge part in all this. See psalm 82 and Deut. 32 and Is. 14 and many other references to 'the sons of God'. Yes mankind was real dumb, bit the evils that came from outside were far more wicked - that is why there in NO forgiveness for them and 'they will die like men'. Scripture gives many warnings not to be carried away with any winds of doctrine (there are many , many, today) . In Scripture, it is NOT written, that that is why there is no forgiveness for them. There is no indication ever that Yahuweh nor Yahushua ever planned to help the fallen angels ever, at all; rather that they were always destined for the lake of fire - there was never any secret future or otherwise that Yahuweh did not always know. You seem to have misunderstood, I did NOT imply anything of the sort I.E. that God would 'help them'. See Jude and Peter as well. Read psalm 82. The sons of God, the members of His high council, messed up big time. Study well and see the outcome of the members of the high council that misled the nations that God had put them in charge of. Read Deut. 32 and other mentions such as Is. Even Job mentions that God did not trust them very much. It is not a fable, it is in the texts I have given you. Please go and study them well.
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Post by John on Jul 15, 2019 6:36:01 GMT -5
It appears this conversation has gotten sidetracked from talking about the Trinity to a general discussion about a multitude of things people believe we were taught wrong about. The question is how long has God been a Father and does God the son have a beginning?
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Post by justinadams on Jul 15, 2019 11:37:24 GMT -5
It appears this conversation has gotten sidetracked from talking about the Trinity to a general discussion about a multitude of things people believe we were taught wrong about. The question is how long has God been a Father and does God the son have a beginning?
The God-head comprises persons with no beginning. The 'divine man' is the express image of the Father (seen often in the Tanach) for He and the Father are ONE. He is seen described throughout the Tanach in various ways; Yeshua (Ya is Salvation) is NONE create with the Father and the Spirit. They are all non-create with no beginning and no end. They are all GOD.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 29, 2019 19:51:44 GMT -5
I believe God and Jesus were with each other from the beginning. John 1 talks about the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.
The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
That means Jesus and God were always together, so God has always been Father.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 30, 2019 8:07:49 GMT -5
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. a new thing?... i think not. HE IS THAT HE IS... and HE does not change.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Aug 6, 2019 20:18:54 GMT -5
I believe God and Jesus were with each other from the beginning. John 1 talks about the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. That means Jesus and God were always together, so God has always been Father. That is what the Bible teaches. God has always been, and I believe God has always existed in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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Post by John on Aug 7, 2019 8:39:34 GMT -5
I believe God and Jesus were with each other from the beginning. John 1 talks about the Word of God. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. That means Jesus and God were always together, so God has always been Father. That is what the Bible teaches. God has always been, and I believe God has always existed in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I agree. Jesus was the fourth man in the fire in Daniel, though he wasn't known by that name at the time.
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Post by letmebefrank on Nov 11, 2019 16:11:22 GMT -5
I will throw this little bit out>> When did the Jews Want to stone GodJesus when He walked this earth and preached?? there is a certain something that drove them over the bend!! WHAT did he Say???
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Post by letmebefrank on Nov 11, 2019 19:27:02 GMT -5
There are only two places in John where the Jews wanted to kill Jesus with stones. Both of these occur after Jesus spoke and made a claim about Himself. The first was in John 8:58-59, and the second was in John 10:30-33. Enjoy
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