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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 16, 2019 12:24:02 GMT -5
So Ive been on the fence of the issue of whether to believe OSAS or not.
But today a worthy member who is a big supporter of OSAS presented me with a quote that was clearly Hyper-Grace.
The quote said you can live like the devil and still be saved.
But that can't be right. The New Testament says do not be deceived about that sort of thing.
The Lord seems to be showing me not to trust the words of preachers and teachers who rely on OSAS because the Bible supports making every effort to obey, not simply resting on Hyper-Grace.
It's true that we are saved by God's grace. I was saved by God's grace but God calls us to Holiness. It is an effort to obey but without Holiness, no one will see the Lord.
The Spirit shows us what needs to be done, and then we make every effort to do it.
Even though my journey to understand salvation has mostly been like searching around in the dark, occasionally, I find clues.
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Post by John on Jul 16, 2019 12:33:46 GMT -5
That is what they mean when they say faith plus nothing, and many are living like the devil. I am glad you see through it.
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Post by joseph on Jul 16, 2019 12:59:22 GMT -5
So Ive been on the fence of the issue of whether to believe OSAS or not. .... Even though my journey to understand salvation has mostly been like searching around in the dark, occasionally, I find clues. Think of it this way perhaps, for simplicity, honesty, and truth. If you don't believe in unicorns, does that mean you are lost ? No. If you believe in unicorns, does that mean you are deceived ? Yes. If you don't believe in osas , does that mean you are lost ? No. If you believe in osas, does that mean you are deceived ? Yes. Therefore, should we worry about any of the doctrines of men (or of demons) ? No. Believing something that is false does mean being deceived. Those doctrines and teachings that are false are not even discussed, except momentarily to dismiss them, in the meetings of Ekklesia who have experiential knowledge of salvation in union with Jesus. At times, even the Ekklesia are deceived, and thus for a time might 'discuss' false teachings and false doctrines until the LIGHT SHINES IN (JESUS and the FATHER REVEALS THE TRUTH to them) ........ SEEK SEEK SEEK SEEK SEEK SEEK ....... JESUS SAYS SEEK............ what ? false doctrines ? no. false teachings ? no. THE TRUTH ? YES YES YES ! AMEN! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- RE "...journey to understand salvation ..mostly like searching around in the dark" Yes. This is the truth for all people. They are only able, mostly, to search around in the dark. We are all surrounded by 'dark' society.. in the dark... Even on Christian sites/ forums/ in churches/ Bible studies/ sunday schools/ universities/ Bible Seminaries(sometimes called 'cemeteries' by those who were saved even after going through one) The false information vastly outnumbers the truth on earth, in this world we all live in. And it (all the false information) must soundly be rejected, renounced, given up) ..... Jesus said this to those who wanted to be His disciples, and this continues today. (but is not obeyed by many, only a few)
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Post by John on Jul 17, 2019 12:03:26 GMT -5
While believing in a false doctrine like OSAS may not mean you aren't saved, it is still dangerous in that it effects how we believe and behave. Telling people that to enter into God's rest is faith in OSAS is a lie. Telling people repentance isn't necessary to get saved is false. Claiming Christians can't go an hour without committing willful sins, leaving us slaves to the devil and claiming Jesus started the heretical OSAS doctrine and Paul started the faith plus nothing lie is not only slanderous, but those trusting in those things will often wind up in hell when they practice that perversion of grace. Those that teach it have blood on their hands.
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Cletus
Senior Member
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Post by Cletus on Jul 17, 2019 20:52:13 GMT -5
the bible tells us there will be a great falling away/great apostasy. how can a great number of believers fall from grace if its not possible, and how then did God lie to us in the bible?
osas is heresy.
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Jul 18, 2019 12:31:54 GMT -5
the bible tells us there will be a great falling away/great apostasy. how can a great number of believers fall from grace if its not possible, and how then did God lie to us in the bible? osas is heresy. Can I ask what kind of church you go to? So many churches teach OSAS. Especially the ones I've been to.
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2019 17:04:02 GMT -5
The churches that tend to be the worst for teaching OSAS are Baptist. Pentecostal and Wesleyan churches are for the most part not teaching OSAS.
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Jul 18, 2019 17:09:33 GMT -5
The churches that tend to be the worst for teaching OSAS are Baptist. Pentecostal and Wesleyan churches are for the most part not teaching OSAS.
The Pentecostal churches around here are basically teaching OSAS.
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2019 17:18:16 GMT -5
The churches that tend to be the worst for teaching OSAS are Baptist. Pentecostal and Wesleyan churches are for the most part not teaching OSAS.
The Pentecostal churches around here are basically teaching OSAS. I guess they are all different. I know the Pentecostal Holiness Church is basically full gospel Wesleyan. I know the Church of God doesn't teach OSAS. The false OSAS doctrine seems to be spreading. It is what people want to believe.
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Post by John on Jul 18, 2019 17:18:47 GMT -5
The churches that tend to be the worst for teaching OSAS are Baptist. Pentecostal and Wesleyan churches are for the most part not teaching OSAS.
The Pentecostal churches around here are basically teaching OSAS. Thanks for sharing that. I wasn't aware of it.
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Post by frienduff on Jul 18, 2019 17:28:10 GMT -5
the bible tells us there will be a great falling away/great apostasy. how can a great number of believers fall from grace if its not possible, and how then did God lie to us in the bible? osas is heresy. Having DAMANATION because they have cast off their FIRST FAITH . AKA the faith THEY HAD IN THE BEGINNING . OOPSY , YES IT CAN HAPPEN and paul , peter and all knew it could . For when they have BEGAN to WAX wanton against CHRIST ....................... they started out with the right FAITH , but then wax wanton . And wait till you see what I found in Hebrews a long time ago . But as of late it really stuck out . TAKE HEED BRETHREN , lest their be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in DEPARTING From the Living GOD . But exhort one another DAILY , WHILE it is called today , unless any of YOU be hardned through the deceitfulness of sin . FOR we are made Partakers of CHRIST , IF IF IF IF we hold the BEGINNING of our CONFIDENCE , steadfast to the ......................................E N D . OOPS . Its like I keep telling Ol BB and others , WE GOTTA remain faithful to CHRIST , TO THE END . Aint no midway , almost all the way , BUT TO THE END . Now , todays version would say , OH PAUL that's not possible once we saved we always saved . rather odd that paul and others sure did lots of warnings and lots of IFS were in those warnings .
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Post by frienduff on Jul 18, 2019 17:34:09 GMT -5
Cletus asks a good question . lets read what paul says concerning GRACE . Be looking diligently , lest any man FAIL OF the GRACE OF GOD . How do we fall , we take heed unto error and sin . Beware brethren, unless you too be led away with the ERROR of the wicked and fall from your own steadfastness , GOTTA hold the beginning of our confidence IN HIM , STEADFAST to the end . Better we learn doctrine and HEED THE SPIRIT . for many have and many more will fall away in the days to come . Its going to get very delusional and the falling away will go massive in both number and in the level of darkness . We nigh the end . whether its believed or not , WE are nigh the end , that final climatic hour battle . And the signs are all around .
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Cletus
Senior Member
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Post by Cletus on Jul 18, 2019 17:42:43 GMT -5
Cletus asks a good question . lets read what paul says concerning GRACE . Be looking diligently , lest any man FAIL OF the GRACE OF GOD . How do we fall , we take heed unto error and sin . Beware brethren, unless you too be led away with the ERROR of the wicked and fall from your own steadfastness , GOTTA hold the beginning of our confidence IN HIM , STEADFAST to the end . Better we learn doctrine and HEED THE SPIRIT . for many have and many more will fall away in the days to come . Its going to get very delusional and the falling away will go massive in both number and in the level of darkness . We nigh the end . whether its believed or not , WE are nigh the end , that final climatic hour battle . And the signs are all around . either we say grace is a magical license to sin... or THE POWER to change us. listen close to the wordsof teaCHERS THESE DAYS FOR THE BIBLE TELLS US THOSE THAT HAVE AN APPEARANCE OF HOLINESS BUT DENY THE POWER... STAY AWAY FROM THEM.
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Cletus
Senior Member
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Post by Cletus on Jul 18, 2019 18:09:55 GMT -5
the bible tells us there will be a great falling away/great apostasy. how can a great number of believers fall from grace if its not possible, and how then did God lie to us in the bible? osas is heresy. Can I ask what kind of church you go to? So many churches teach OSAS. Especially the ones I've been to. i have not asked. i do not think it is a denomination or even claims to be non-denominational. so far best i can tell the people believe we are the body of Christ and desire to be the body, do His will, and worship in Spirit and Truth.
i was working for a man. his next door neighbor asked if he could work me when my then boss was not using me. i began to work for this new guy. turns out he was the pastor of the church. i had not known that he was a pastor for around a month until we got to speaking on deeper things of the LORD one day concerning being used of God. he casually mentioned he was a pastor. I am skeptic of preachers so i went to the home group a few times first and i like what i hear. the collection plate is in the back, never passed around either. its a small church.
my advice, dont look at the sign in front of the church. look for The Holy Spirit to DRAW you to a church. either by being led or like you feel your spirit being pulled to that church when in close proximity. and stay prayed up on fellowshipping and worshiping with believers who desire Spirit and Truth. the whole truth. God invited me to the first church i went to... they preached prosperity and faith teachings there. 3 years i went. then i realized the truth. God dont always work like we think He will. sometimes He will do the opposite of what we think is right or what we want... but He wastes nothing, no opportunity. Be led of the Spirit. let your heart and mind be stayed on Jesus... even when others are drowning in the cares of this life, and "ministries" i learned the truth because God showed me... but he drug me thru some mud to get there. Thank God for the mud... thank God for the mud.
God wants us to be ... wants our hearts to be closely knitted together with those we fellowship with.
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Post by justinadams on Jul 19, 2019 4:32:15 GMT -5
The churches that tend to be the worst for teaching OSAS are Baptist. Pentecostal and Wesleyan churches are for the most part not teaching OSAS.
The Pentecostal churches around here are basically teaching OSAS. This is a really tricky subject and prone to legalistic and literal transliteration. The Tanach speaks of God's designs many times and His exhortations to follow and obey Him Alone. In this day of over literalism, we have lost the art of conversation and allusion. We do not see the writer's points of view and thus are prone to overlook hyperbole. We just cannot understand WORDS anymore and see allegory as FACT and literal fact is taught rather than what was really meant. Unless you get in the Hebrew mindset you will not understand much of scripture. If you are not a student of the Tanach, then studying the New Testament writings will be difficult. The writers read books. Lots of them and one can see in the apostles' turn of phrase how they adopted many of the allegories that books such as Enoch and other writings around the time of Christ. Allegory and metaphor are often the tools of the writer to convey a deeper message. They refer to REAL things and are not make believe. In our modern literal mind-set we have lost the pictorial ability to glean meaning from a metaphor, so we beat people over the head with LITERAL clubs and never really are able to understand THEIR TRUE MEANINGS. We think that 'the pillars of the earth' are REAL and not metaphorical descriptions of our world. Thus our overly literal sacred-cow births the flat earth ideas. One must understand Mesopotamian world-views to see how our God was deliberately 'seated on the clouds' to dispel the Baal ideas which used similar language. Sadly we are so overcome with one dimensional word use that we cannot see the many-sided ideas that words convey. Thus we argue over OSAS. We cannot see the depth of the Lord's Love because we have reduced Him to a shallow set of rules that we only half understand anyway. We want to try and see negative impact in His Positive Words and Works. Think about this please.
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