Understanding Predestination & Election
Jul 28, 2019 20:52:24 GMT -5
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Post by John on Jul 28, 2019 20:52:24 GMT -5
Last week, I was talking to sister Naomi in the Shoutbox about predestination and election, and how the Lord showed me the connection between that and what some see as contradictions in scripture between those who hold to OSAS and those that do not. I was at WCF debating with people on this subject for over a decade, and was solidly on the side that OSAS was a lie that was leading people into hell. I had a lot of scriptures to back me up. On the other side was the group that was solidly on the OSAS side, and they had scriptures to back them up. Something I noticed was that both sides expected that you should take the verses they used exactly as written, the most plain interpretation, but when they were faced with defending their position by having to deal with the scriptures the other side used, they got very creative in the way they explained them. It was far from the plain meaning. Much of the time, they would fail to answer arguments set before them and just go off with their own favorite verses. I was honest enough to admit this, because I was seeking the truth. I took the matter to the Lord. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is our teacher into all truth, so I asked, and out of nowhere, the answer was imparted to me, predestination and election, something I had never considered because I had rejected it years ago. I was amazed, and I knew I couldn't have come up with this on my own. It was the furthest thing from my mind.
How does that work in practical terms? There is an elect, but we don't have any way of knowing who they are. Calvinists suppose they are the people that simply have a desire towards God. That makes them the elect. The OSAS crowd supposes they are the people that "believe." They say a sinner's prayer and are born again. Some go so far as to say "faith plus nothing." If they just have faith, they are the elect. In both cases, they claim they are sealed and cannot ever be lost because they are born again, and they say you can only be born again once. They both have one thing in common. They are the elect in their own mind. None of them are ever among a class of people that is not really saved. They see others as deceived, but not them. They are the elect. It doesn't work that way.
For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14
What does that mean? It means that the call to be saved has gone out all over the world, and whosoever will may come to the Lord to be saved. God isn't going to turn away someone who sincerely wants salvation. You don't need to think within yourself that you are not of the elect, so it is no use. If you have heard the call, and most in the world have heard the message of the gospel, you can make the choice to respond and accept Jesus into your heart to be your Lord and Savior, and he will save you. At that moment, you are saved. If you were to die at that instant, you would go to heaven. Here is where it gets interesting. You may be saved, but not of the elect.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10,11
I just did a message on that passage, and what it says is true. If you follow what it teaches, you will never fall. God won't cast you aside because you are not of the elect, however, if you are not of the elect, you won't do those things, or you may for a time, but you will fall away. You won't make your calling and election sure. You won't be a doer of the Word. You will go back into sin and die in your sins. In a practical sense in this life, you can be saved and lost and saved again, but God is our creator, and he is all knowing. He knows the beginning from the end. Back before the foundation of the world, he knew you, and he knew you would accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and he knows what state your life will be in when you die, so in his mind, you are the elect or your are not. You are saved or you are lost, and nothing can change that. Those who he created that are the elect, the Father has presented to his Son, and they are already saved. That is God's reality, but not ours. We aren't privy to that knowledge, so we are told to make our calling and election sure. We are given the road map to heaven, and even if God knows the beginning from the ending, we are still responsible for our actions. If we want to make it to heaven, we have to enter the race through faith in Christ, and we have to finish the race.
One way I have described this is that God has given us His Word, the 66 books of the Bible. This book contains a lot of information about things all the way back to the first couple, Adam and Eve through the new heaven and new earth. It only lists certain people in it, but in God's book, every event, every person who has ever existed or will ever be is included. Our story has been written, and in God's mind, it is settled, down to this evening when I am writing this post. In our reality, we don't know what is up ahead. We are making decisions day by day, but the elect will be saved. That is settled in the mind of God, but only God knows who they are. In our reality, we must choose to walk with God or walk according to the flesh. If we choose to take up our cross and follow Jesus Christ, the good shepherd, he will lead us to the straight gate and eternal life. If we choose to follow after the flesh, we will arrive at the broad gate, which leads to eternal damnation.
I can go through the Bible and show many examples of God's foreknowledge and how this works in a practical sense. You have God telling how the children of Israel would go into Egypt for a period of time and how they would grow into a great people and then be led into the land of Canaan before it happened. You have God making the future go a certain way by bringing about the 7 good years and 7 years of famine to elevate Joseph. You have God setting up Pharaoh and choosing to harden his heart until God wanted him to finally let the children of Israel go. It goes on and on. I had a lengthy soap box debate with Shiloh357 a while back at WCF on this topic, but George removed the entire thread because I had defeated Shiloh357, and that wasn't supposed to happen, so it was covered up. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, and I will try to explain it better.
How does that work in practical terms? There is an elect, but we don't have any way of knowing who they are. Calvinists suppose they are the people that simply have a desire towards God. That makes them the elect. The OSAS crowd supposes they are the people that "believe." They say a sinner's prayer and are born again. Some go so far as to say "faith plus nothing." If they just have faith, they are the elect. In both cases, they claim they are sealed and cannot ever be lost because they are born again, and they say you can only be born again once. They both have one thing in common. They are the elect in their own mind. None of them are ever among a class of people that is not really saved. They see others as deceived, but not them. They are the elect. It doesn't work that way.
For many are called, but few are chosen. Matthew 22:14
What does that mean? It means that the call to be saved has gone out all over the world, and whosoever will may come to the Lord to be saved. God isn't going to turn away someone who sincerely wants salvation. You don't need to think within yourself that you are not of the elect, so it is no use. If you have heard the call, and most in the world have heard the message of the gospel, you can make the choice to respond and accept Jesus into your heart to be your Lord and Savior, and he will save you. At that moment, you are saved. If you were to die at that instant, you would go to heaven. Here is where it gets interesting. You may be saved, but not of the elect.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10,11
I just did a message on that passage, and what it says is true. If you follow what it teaches, you will never fall. God won't cast you aside because you are not of the elect, however, if you are not of the elect, you won't do those things, or you may for a time, but you will fall away. You won't make your calling and election sure. You won't be a doer of the Word. You will go back into sin and die in your sins. In a practical sense in this life, you can be saved and lost and saved again, but God is our creator, and he is all knowing. He knows the beginning from the end. Back before the foundation of the world, he knew you, and he knew you would accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and he knows what state your life will be in when you die, so in his mind, you are the elect or your are not. You are saved or you are lost, and nothing can change that. Those who he created that are the elect, the Father has presented to his Son, and they are already saved. That is God's reality, but not ours. We aren't privy to that knowledge, so we are told to make our calling and election sure. We are given the road map to heaven, and even if God knows the beginning from the ending, we are still responsible for our actions. If we want to make it to heaven, we have to enter the race through faith in Christ, and we have to finish the race.
One way I have described this is that God has given us His Word, the 66 books of the Bible. This book contains a lot of information about things all the way back to the first couple, Adam and Eve through the new heaven and new earth. It only lists certain people in it, but in God's book, every event, every person who has ever existed or will ever be is included. Our story has been written, and in God's mind, it is settled, down to this evening when I am writing this post. In our reality, we don't know what is up ahead. We are making decisions day by day, but the elect will be saved. That is settled in the mind of God, but only God knows who they are. In our reality, we must choose to walk with God or walk according to the flesh. If we choose to take up our cross and follow Jesus Christ, the good shepherd, he will lead us to the straight gate and eternal life. If we choose to follow after the flesh, we will arrive at the broad gate, which leads to eternal damnation.
I can go through the Bible and show many examples of God's foreknowledge and how this works in a practical sense. You have God telling how the children of Israel would go into Egypt for a period of time and how they would grow into a great people and then be led into the land of Canaan before it happened. You have God making the future go a certain way by bringing about the 7 good years and 7 years of famine to elevate Joseph. You have God setting up Pharaoh and choosing to harden his heart until God wanted him to finally let the children of Israel go. It goes on and on. I had a lengthy soap box debate with Shiloh357 a while back at WCF on this topic, but George removed the entire thread because I had defeated Shiloh357, and that wasn't supposed to happen, so it was covered up. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, and I will try to explain it better.