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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 12:01:09 GMT -5
God offers his message to all.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 12:03:25 GMT -5
To me, just because God knows everything, the lives we live is not an illusion for all things truly do happen in real time.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:03:45 GMT -5
So you do believe God writes the script and chooses our lives for us, and then we go through the pretense of pretending to choose it ourselves as some sort of illusion. OK. I just wanted to make sure I understand. We aren't pretending anything. It is real life to us.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:05:51 GMT -5
God offers his message to all. The message of salvation went out to the whole world, even to Judas Iscariot. Anyone will be saved if they turn to the Lord and keep following him.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:07:53 GMT -5
To me, just because God knows everything, the lives we live is not an illusion for all things truly do happen in real time. All things happen to us in real time, but time was created for us and our existence.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 11, 2019 12:09:33 GMT -5
So you do believe God writes the script and chooses our lives for us, and then we go through the pretense of pretending to choose it ourselves as some sort of illusion. OK. I just wanted to make sure I understand. We aren't pretending anything. It is real life to us.
If we’re deceived into thinking we can choose what we’re really not choosing, it is a pretense. We may be deceived about the pretense, but it’s a pretense at the end of the day. Again, if this is what you believe, I’m not trying to talk you out of it. I’m just trying to be clear on it.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 12:19:48 GMT -5
Well to me, if all things is just an illussion, then there is nothing that is genuine.
And Candance sort of beat me to it, but I was also thinking about the word pretense.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 12:24:22 GMT -5
1Ti 1:5 (5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
An illussion cannot truly provide for someone to truly serve God with a genuinely pure heart, it has got to be real, God is into realness.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:25:20 GMT -5
We aren't pretending anything. It is real life to us.
If we’re deceived into thinking we can choose what we’re really not choosing, it is a pretense. We may be deceived about the pretense, but it’s a pretense at the end of the day. Again, if this is what you believe, I’m not trying to talk you out of it. I’m just trying to be clear on it. I guess in a way you could say that. Peter really believed he could not deny the Lord 3 times, even though Jesus said he would. I guess that was a deception in his mind. It depends how you look at it. Peter never questioned Jesus about how he would die for his faith. Maybe he learned his lesson? I don't feel deceived when I was told to make my calling and election sure.
I will say this in all sincerity. I have had people tell me what I said was wrong, but only one has made a serious attempt to do so. The one person who tried was Shiloh in the Soap Box at Worthy, and George has since removed the thread. If Shiloh had proven me wrong, you can bet it would still be there. But all things must match up with scripture. I am not above that, so if you see scriptural holes in what I am saying, I will consider them. If you are content just understanding what I believe, that is okay too.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:27:33 GMT -5
1Ti 1:5 (5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: An illussion cannot truly provide for someone to truly serve God with a genuinely pure heart, it has got to be real, God is into realness. My love for and loyalty to God is genuine, but that is only possible because the Father saw fit to reveal Christ to me.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 11, 2019 12:38:34 GMT -5
It would be better for election teachers to come out and say that God makes certain people for the purpose of destroying them. Just be honest. It’s what Paul taught in Romans 9. Vessels of destruction created for such a purpose. No dog and pony show that God is somehow executing justice for their crimes. No kabuki theater that they chose to disobey Him and are being held responsible for their actions. It’s best to just be honest and say that God created them to smash them. I have more respect for election teachers who stick to this rather than doing mental acrobatics about responsibility for crimes we don’t choose.
It isn’t my job to oppose you on such a big doctrine. I’ve mentioned several times to before that it wears me out to deliberate doctrinal theories, and plus I’m not supposed to correct the men over me. I keep letting my flesh put me back into theoretical debates here. Time to be firm on that. No mas.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 12:45:32 GMT -5
1Ti 1:5 (5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: An illussion cannot truly provide for someone to truly serve God with a genuinely pure heart, it has got to be real, God is into realness. My love for and loyalty to God is genuine, but that is only possible because the Father saw fit to reveal Christ to me.
Oh I do not doubt your love for God, just for me nothing is an illusion.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:50:55 GMT -5
It would be better for election teachers to come out and say that God makes certain people for the purpose of destroying them. Just be honest. It’s what Paul taught in Romans 9. Vessels of destruction created for such a purpose. No dog and pony show that God is somehow executing justice for their crimes. No kabuki theater that they chose to disobey Him and are being held responsible for their actions. It’s best to just be honest and say that God created them to smash them. I have more respect for election teachers who stick to this rather than doing mental acrobatics about responsibility for crimes we don’t choose. It isn’t my job to oppose you on such a big doctrine. I’ve mentioned several times to before that it wears me out to deliberate doctrinal theories, and plus I’m not supposed to correct the men over me. I keep letting my flesh put me back into theoretical debates here. Time to be firm on that. No mas. They are being created for destruction. Judas Iscariot was, but they still did the evil deeds. Whether Judas was created a vessel for destruction or not, he still betrayed the Lord, and he is being punished for his betrayal, even if he was created for that purpose. The only alternative to what I am saying that works is to say God really doesn't know what we will do, so Judas could have chosen not to betray the Lord, making God a liar. But of course, God has created some for destruction and some for eternal life, but it is still based on behavior. I never sympathized with Freddie Kruger because someone chose to make him a villain. Even though he was made thus, I still was happy to see him get what was coming to him. That is how I look at it.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor? Romans 9:18-21
Paul knew everyone would ask this question, so he went ahead and answered it, yet they still ask it.
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Post by John on Sept 11, 2019 12:53:27 GMT -5
My love for and loyalty to God is genuine, but that is only possible because the Father saw fit to reveal Christ to me.
Oh I do not doubt your love for God, just for me nothing is an illusion. In our world, it is reality, so that is not surprising. It is not an illusion for me either as I get up and face each new day and each new decision. I was speaking from the standpoint of how God already knows everything I will do and say before it happens.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 11, 2019 13:13:18 GMT -5
Paul only answers the question of why God destroys them. Can we find fault in God for destroying who He wants to destroy? No, He may create people for destruction if He pleases, and there is naught we can do about it. This has nothing to do with whether or not that person is being handed justice. Paul says nothing about justice being executed in Romans 9. He only addresses the issue of whether God can do whatever God wants to do.
Do we find fault in God for doing such a seemingly heartless thing? No, we may not. This is a far cry from whether these people are being held responsible in some sort of criminal justice sense. At least Westboro Baptist has that part right on Romans 9. God creates the. vast majority of the human race for the express purpose of hating them, opposing them, defeating them, and sending them to hell. We dare not say this is heartless of Him because we dare not question God.
See I keep getting sucked into this?? I need to stop! I will let you get the last word.
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