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Post by John on Jul 29, 2019 19:04:39 GMT -5
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5:27-30
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?" Luke 9:23-25
"And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother." Luke 18:18-20
"So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:33
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46
"Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." John 15:14
"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Romans 6:20-22
"WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Romans 6:1,2
"BEHOLD, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 1 John 3:1-10
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Post by John on Jul 29, 2019 19:12:38 GMT -5
For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, and unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:26-31
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world, through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." 2 Peter 2:20-22
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Corinthians 9:27
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Post by John on Jul 29, 2019 19:21:34 GMT -5
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Corinthians 6:9.10
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Galatians 5:19-21
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Revelations 3:5
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." Exodus 32:33
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Post by John on Jul 29, 2019 19:23:25 GMT -5
I got the ball rolling. Feel free to add to this list of scriptures that show that we cannot continue living in sin after we get saved if we expect to make it to heaven.
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Post by John on Jul 29, 2019 19:46:16 GMT -5
Did you notice a glaring hole in my list of scriptures? I didn't even post from the Book of James. It is time to correct that now. James 2:14-26.
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 29, 2019 20:08:54 GMT -5
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Eze 3:16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Eze 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
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Post by Giller on Jul 29, 2019 21:12:31 GMT -5
Rom 8:12-13 (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
This is speaking to the brethren, that if the brethren shall live after the flesh, they shall die !!!!!!!
And it tells for the brethren to mortify these deeds done through the body, and mortifying these deeds through the Holy Spirit of God.
We (the brethren) are to mortify these deeds through the Spirit of God.
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Post by Giller on Jul 29, 2019 21:44:33 GMT -5
Rom 8:12-14 (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
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Post by justinadams on Jul 30, 2019 6:14:23 GMT -5
There are many hand-me-down doctrines that I have heard of. I do not know of this particular 'heresy'. However, I have been saddened when someone that professed a belief in Yeshua, then a week later changed their mind.
In my mind, being saved by a belief on the Lord Yeshua is a first step. After that I have noticed that the Holy Spirit tends to pile on the Grace for a while, giving the new convert room enough to consider their ways and repent. To bring such an one to a 'place of repentance' is a God thing and NOT a man thing.
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Post by John on Jul 30, 2019 6:20:30 GMT -5
There are many hand-me-down doctrines that I have heard of. I do not know of this particular 'heresy'. However, I have been saddened when someone that professed a belief in Yeshua, then a week later changed their mind. In my mind, being saved by a belief on the Lord Yeshua is a first step. After that I have noticed that the Holy Spirit tends to pile on the Grace for a while, giving the new convert room enough to consider their ways and repent. To bring such an one to a 'place of repentance' is a God thing and NOT a man thing. It comes from false teachers like Yankee Arnold, Renee Roland and Gene Scott.
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Post by John on Jul 30, 2019 6:50:27 GMT -5
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good of God, and the powers of the world to come. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
Like with every other false doctrine, "faith plus nothing" has their own spin for this passage, but even in my Bible, the header says this is "a command for Christians not to apostatize." It is clearly speaking of people that were once saved who have fallen away to the point of no return where God no longer deals with them.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 30, 2019 7:23:20 GMT -5
here is one that will take some thinking on.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
other versions read... ye shall possess. it goes along with this one too:
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
and these verses in "context" are oh so timely for us today.
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Post by justinadams on Jul 30, 2019 11:07:11 GMT -5
There are many hand-me-down doctrines that I have heard of. I do not know of this particular 'heresy'. However, I have been saddened when someone that professed a belief in Yeshua, then a week later changed their mind. In my mind, being saved by a belief on the Lord Yeshua is a first step. After that I have noticed that the Holy Spirit tends to pile on the Grace for a while, giving the new convert room enough to consider their ways and repent. To bring such an one to a 'place of repentance' is a God thing and NOT a man thing. Hebrews: Additionally, having studied Hebrews extensively, this letter is primarily aimed at Judaic people that turn back to their old way under persecution. In the text the writer repeatedly refers to this kind of falling away and "putting Yesuha to an open shame". It is NOT to be taken any other way and especially as a doctrine that sin removes Salvation. It is ALL the writer is concerned with and he repeatedly tells his Jewish and Israeli brothers to stick to their faith and their belief in Christ and to make sure they assemble with other believers. This is to support each other in this terrible time when property was seized and there was considerable uncertainty in their persecuted assemblies.
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Post by John on Jul 30, 2019 11:23:21 GMT -5
There are many hand-me-down doctrines that I have heard of. I do not know of this particular 'heresy'. However, I have been saddened when someone that professed a belief in Yeshua, then a week later changed their mind. In my mind, being saved by a belief on the Lord Yeshua is a first step. After that I have noticed that the Holy Spirit tends to pile on the Grace for a while, giving the new convert room enough to consider their ways and repent. To bring such an one to a 'place of repentance' is a God thing and NOT a man thing. Hebrews: Additionally, having studied Hebrews extensively, this letter is primarily aimed at Judaic people that turn back to their old way under persecution. In the text the writer repeatedly refers to this kind of falling away and "putting Yesuha to an open shame". It is NOT to be taken any other way and especially as a doctrine that sin removes Salvation. It is ALL the writer is concerned with and he repeatedly tells his Jewish and Israeli brothers to stick to their faith and their belief in Christ and to make sure they assemble with other believers. This is to support each other in this terrible time when property was seized and there was considerable uncertainty in their persecuted assemblies. The book of Hebrews, like all the other epistles, is written to all Christians. The idea that this book is primarily to this people and that book to another people, is a way people pervert the plain meaning. Hebrews covers many issues. Whether you agree or not, it makes it clear that willful sin can remove you from salvation.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jul 30, 2019 20:24:59 GMT -5
i think if we put hebrews on a finer scale, and then we apply this to our own lives whats really being said is... do not abandon the faith. This epistle was written to wavering Jewish believers that had converted to christianity... as were/did a good many of the early christians... and those whose faith was waivering... they were wondering if they made the right choice to convert to christianity.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
this one verse is a double edged sword... that cuts both ways. to those who abandon the faith... there is no other sacrifice that God accepts thus, if you abandon the faith where is your sacrifice to God that is acceptable?
The gist of Hebrews is really... to remain steadfast in the faith and not to turn from the belief in Jesus Christ... because if and when you do... this is unbelief(as in the provocation quoted in Hebrews 2)...
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
and so what then shall we conclude with such warnings to heed?...
Heb 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
You see according to this passage now that Jesus has died and is risen... and we have heard... the punishment is even worse for those who turn compared to those who been dead in sin and trespass all their "life"
It is a very true thing that our Father is Merciful, and slow to anger, and He does give a span of time to repent, oh yes, and for that I say He is good... but there is a line drawn in the sand... so choose this day whom you will serve. there are only two choices, and to not make a choice is a default choice of sin and death.
a major point of Hebrews is the superiority of Christ, to the law, the prophets, to moses and his works and in his person, to the Aaronic priesthood (which if you read closely it also compares this to Melchisedecian priesthood, which is why i believe its Jesus in the other thread i mentioned this, and it tells how Melchesiedec is superior to the Aaronic priesthood)
and then we get into the new and old covenant sacrifice. again, Christ is superior. and this leads into Hebrews 11... the chapter about OT forefathers of ours who had this faith that was what by it they obtained a good report. yes yes, their faith wrought works... but they believed God. which is what we do in this new covenant. thats why hebrews 11 is misunderstood by osas-ers. they do not understand we can abandon the faith... just like those in the provocation... just like it says in Hebrews 3.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. *** it is that which will appear we hope for, that we believe God for.
and then of course there is... Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
man the author of hebrews (The Holy Ghost) is just chop chop chopping this whole faith plus nothing heresy to bits. aint he? oooweee thems good groceries.
as much as i done spoke on hebrews it just wouldnt be right to not mention this passage...
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Hallelujah
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