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Post by frienduff on Aug 16, 2019 16:27:22 GMT -5
I got a triva question , after I make this simple statement . I guarantee if the Vatican , and Kenneth Copeland , rick warren , emergent , all inclusive , social gospel and all on that path were to see this site they would label it with one word .
Now before I say the word they would have that in common . And what else do they have in common . Now ponder this . The word would be , THIS IS A HATE SIGHT . and the other thing in common they have is ......THEY ALL FALSE . The world and them have much in common and its the lambs they both hate and will not and do not tolerate . Now what did JESUS say when men shall speak evil of you . And what did he say when men shall speak well of you . Exactly . WE IN GOOD COMPANY . IF THE WORLD HATED JESUS , THEN IT WILL HATE HIS OWN as well . But if the world approves of us and the false leaders approve of us ...........NOT GOOD NEWS my friends , ITS NOT GOOD NEWS AT ALL .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 16:46:20 GMT -5
Butero is making some good points. Those who believe in OSAS are singling out some scriptures while ignoring or twisting others to try and make them fit their belief. One things I would like to say about God's righteousness being imputed to us....we still do need His imputed righteousness after coming to faith. There is a matter of sins committed in ignorance, as well as iniquity in the heart/soul that believers may not yet be aware of to be able to repent of those things and be healed....so while I agree the sins of the past are forgiven, there are sins/iniquities present that God graciously chooses to not count against us while we work out our salvation. There is a reason why we have judges and not just written laws than anybody can look up and decide accordingly....that is so the judge can hear all the facts and exercise their discretion/judgment and not just decide solely by the unmerciful letter of the law. Eg, there was a time when a man would be sentenced to hard labour for life for poaching a rabbit to feed his starving family...and by the letter of the law this was right.....but seeing through a lens of grace and mercy there would be more leniency. God is our judge and only He knows all the facts of each individual case and how far He is willing to let a matter go, or whether He will either overlook a thing or drop the hammer. It's why if we judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world...when we judge ourselves it means that with the mind we are serving Him and hating our faults and that He is willing to count that it is no longer we who sin but sin living in us, while we endeavour in sincerity to deal with whatever the problem is we are facing. The Lord has mercy on us in our predicaments and it certainly is good news for us that He is longsuffering....but if we were to take that for granted or abuse it then expect it to end sooner rather than later for neither is God mocked. The law even said , if a thief steals because he is hungry , despise him not . BUT for sure he will repay four fold etc when he is caught . BUT NOT to despise such a one . It also if the poor come to your fields to let them . IN fact in the law it said , do not GLEAN , leave some for the poor . Man is the one who took things out of the law and outta text too . God would never have been opposed to anyone hunting rabbits . THAT is man . Folks gotta eat . Man has made some wacked out laws that are not in accordance at all with HOW GOD sees things . Let us also keep the mindset , Let not inquity be once named among you . The early church did , And we will too .
I'm not really sure if I understand the difference between sin and iniquity or if they are the same thing. I have tended to think of sin as being the outworking of inner iniquity....so iniquity would be the inner types of things in the heart/soul, like pride, greed, malice, covetousness, fear, jealousy, etc. And sin is what the flesh acts out that comes from iniquity. But I don't know for sure if that is quite right or whether the two terms are used interchangeably in scripture.
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Post by John on Aug 16, 2019 16:55:19 GMT -5
The law even said , if a thief steals because he is hungry , despise him not . BUT for sure he will repay four fold etc when he is caught . BUT NOT to despise such a one . It also if the poor come to your fields to let them . IN fact in the law it said , do not GLEAN , leave some for the poor . Man is the one who took things out of the law and outta text too . God would never have been opposed to anyone hunting rabbits . THAT is man . Folks gotta eat . Man has made some wacked out laws that are not in accordance at all with HOW GOD sees things . Let us also keep the mindset , Let not inquity be once named among you . The early church did , And we will too .
I'm not really sure if I understand the difference between sin and iniquity or if they are the same thing. I have tended to think of sin as being the outworking of inner iniquity....so iniquity would be the inner types of things in the heart/soul, like pride, greed, malice, covetousness, fear, jealousy, etc. And sin is what the flesh acts out that comes from iniquity. But I don't know for sure if that is quite right or whether the two terms are used interchangeably in scripture. There is a difference in sins in your heart and sins acted out. When it comes to willful sins, they will begin in the heart, but as for the difference between iniquity and sin, I am not sure there is any difference. I think they are the same thing.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 16, 2019 16:56:10 GMT -5
I have tended to think of sin as being the outworking of inner iniquity...And sin is what the flesh acts out that comes from iniquity. But I don't know for sure if that is quite right or whether the two terms are used interchangeably in scripture. I believe iniquity is any unrighteous act (in God's eye).
“All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.” - 1 John 5:17
An iniquity cannot be forgiven while it is adopted as a lifestyle (which is idolatry).
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 16, 2019 17:02:18 GMT -5
Iniquity stems from inequality in English. It describes a type of sin that leads to injustice, or something we know is unnaturally wrong. Any action that displeases God is sin, but sins that violate common sense are iniquities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 18:55:33 GMT -5
Thank you for your input everyone....I looked it up and it does seem that sin and iniquity can mean the same thing in scripture.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 16, 2019 20:52:13 GMT -5
The law even said , if a thief steals because he is hungry , despise him not . BUT for sure he will repay four fold etc when he is caught . BUT NOT to despise such a one . It also if the poor come to your fields to let them . IN fact in the law it said , do not GLEAN , leave some for the poor . Man is the one who took things out of the law and outta text too . God would never have been opposed to anyone hunting rabbits . THAT is man . Folks gotta eat . Man has made some wacked out laws that are not in accordance at all with HOW GOD sees things . Let us also keep the mindset , Let not inquity be once named among you . The early church did , And we will too .
I'm not really sure if I understand the difference between sin and iniquity or if they are the same thing. I have tended to think of sin as being the outworking of inner iniquity....so iniquity would be the inner types of things in the heart/soul, like pride, greed, malice, covetousness, fear, jealousy, etc. And sin is what the flesh acts out that comes from iniquity. But I don't know for sure if that is quite right or whether the two terms are used interchangeably in scripture. OH dear sister who is loved . Lets rest our minds IN THE LORD . They are the same thing . Something I learned early on . Lets just keep all things real black and white simple . Like for example , you know how some folks war over pre destination , or tulip , or whatever and mince words and etc . I got one solution . jUST KEEP it all simple . WE need only PREACH JESUS . . Inquity and sin , the same thing . And everything is real simple . Some folks wrestle over stuff we just not need worry about . All we need to do is preach JESUS as the means o salvation and preach and remind on all things HE and the apostles said . Now , you leap up and praise the LORD .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2019 6:16:35 GMT -5
I'm not really sure if I understand the difference between sin and iniquity or if they are the same thing. I have tended to think of sin as being the outworking of inner iniquity....so iniquity would be the inner types of things in the heart/soul, like pride, greed, malice, covetousness, fear, jealousy, etc. And sin is what the flesh acts out that comes from iniquity. But I don't know for sure if that is quite right or whether the two terms are used interchangeably in scripture. OH dear sister who is loved . Lets rest our minds IN THE LORD . They are the same thing . Something I learned early on . Lets just keep all things real black and white simple . Like for example , you know how some folks war over pre destination , or tulip , or whatever and mince words and etc . I got one solution . jUST KEEP it all simple . WE need only PREACH JESUS . . Inquity and sin , the same thing . And everything is real simple . Some folks wrestle over stuff we just not need worry about . All we need to do is preach JESUS as the means o salvation and preach and remind on all things HE and the apostles said . Now , you leap up and praise the LORD .
I just had never searched those two terms out before in order to be sure and hadn't even really quite realized before that I wasn't sure. It's best to find a thing out from the start and avoid heading off on a wild goose chase or confusing others by applying wrong terminology to what you're trying to say. Preachers preach and God bless them, we need the plumbline of God's word, but just that people also often need to be ministered to and supported concerning some of these deeper issues, or work them out for themselves with the help of the Lord. Taking into account that it isn't everyone's area of gifting, however, one of God's problems with the shepherds in Ezekiel was that they didn't bind up the wounded sheep. It takes the power of the Lord and His light to deal with some of these inner things and for whatever reasons, it can take time before a person gets to a place of receiving it....it just seems to be a fact of life and a necessary thing that a person may need to dig and work their way out of the mud and murk into the light, in whatever given areas of the soul that is stuck in bondage or stronghold....part of working out one's salvation, and we don't want to negate the very real pain and need that people may be dealing with in the meantime.
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Post by frienduff on Aug 17, 2019 6:40:16 GMT -5
You are loved dear sister watchful . Be ever encouraged in the Lord . He will work on us all and ensure that we grow . Let us all be heeding Him and the sound doctrine and continue to grow in the grace of the LORD which He does supply . OH let us rejoice in HIM and be always watchful in all things . Praise the Holy LORD .
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Post by John on Aug 18, 2019 18:03:00 GMT -5
I want to cover another passage from those who hold to OSAS, that can come across rather convincing. It is from John 6:35-40
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believed not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Boy, that one really seems to be strong evidence for OSAS! Jesus will not cast out those who come to him. It is the Father's will that Jesus will lose none that He sends to him. It is God's will that those that see the Son and believe on Him may have everlasting life, and Jesus will raise him up at the last day. While it is God's will that Jesus would lose none, we already have an example where Jesus did lose one, and he admits that is the case. Jump over to John 17:12...
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
What you are reading about here is a fulfillment of Bible prophecy. The Father gave his Son Jesus 12 Apostles, and none were lost but one that was prophesied would be lost, the betrayer of the Lord, Judas Iscariot. Judas was among those the Father gave to His son, and this is proof that even if Jesus will not cast away any that come to him, you can walk away if you choose to. But there is a bigger point here. That is the question as to who the Father gave to His son. He did not give His son every person who claims to believe in Jesus. He gave to His son those who are His elect. God knew who they would be before the foundation of the earth. Just like He knew Judas would be ultimately lost, God knows who will endure to the end and who will not. He is not sitting on the edge of his throne wondering whether you will choose the right or wrong path. He knows, but you do not know. You may think you do, as Peter did regarding betraying the Lord, but you don't know till you are tested.
What is causing the confusion for OSAS believers is that they do not understand that the elect, and those the Father gave His son, is not everyone that prays a sinner's prayer or claims to believe. It is those who continue. Jesus had a large number following him for a period of time, but many left him and never returned after he told them things they considered too hard to bear. Surely they thought they were destined to eternal life, but they were not. They were part of the believers that followed Christ for a while, but they abandoned him. It is not those that enter the race that will make it to heaven, but those that finish the race.
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777
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Post by 777 on Aug 19, 2019 4:26:27 GMT -5
I agree. It causes serious error if you do not understand who Jesus is speaking of. It is not every person who just claims to believe in Jesus, but it is those that God the Father chose. When it comes to the false OSAS doctrine, everyone thinks they are among that group because of an act they did in accepting Jesus as their Savior. While doing that is necessary, it does not guarantee they are among the group that will ultimately be saved.
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Post by John on Aug 19, 2019 6:20:06 GMT -5
I agree. It causes serious error if you do not understand who Jesus is speaking of. It is not every person who just claims to believe in Jesus, but it is those that God the Father chose. When it comes to the false OSAS doctrine, everyone thinks they are among that group because of an act they did in accepting Jesus as their Savior. While doing that is necessary, it does not guarantee they are among the group that will ultimately be saved. That is why we must make our calling and election sure.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 19, 2019 16:39:01 GMT -5
That is why we must make our calling and election sure. “...do not become sluggish,
but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” - Hebrews 6:12
“who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness,
obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword,
out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.” - Hebrews 11:33
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Post by John on Aug 19, 2019 20:24:00 GMT -5
Here is a passage I use to show that continuing to live in sin will keep you out of heaven whether you have been saved or not. I am also going to tell you the lame responses I get from the OSAS believers that attempt to rebut it. I Corinthians 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
If you will notice, Paul says that people that live in a lifestyle of sin will not inherit the kingdom of God, and he names examples of sins. It makes no exceptions for those who have been saved. What the OSAS crowd has countered with is verse 11, where it says, "such were some of you." They claim this is not speaking to Christians, because it makes that statement, but that only works if you aren't doing those things anymore. How does it apply to anyone still committing those sins? It clearly doesn't. He is speaking to Christians, and when Paul says, "such were some of you," he is indicating they stopped doing those things, not that they were now free to live in those sins and remain saved. The other answer I have seen a couple of times is a claim that you can have no inheritance in the kingdom of God and still be saved. That is so absurd, it is laughable. If you have no inheritance in the kingdom of God, where will that leave you, living on the streets in heaven and a beggar? It is just craziness.
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Post by John on Nov 16, 2019 13:28:40 GMT -5
I have been involved in my fair share of OSAS debates over the years. They become filled with emotions, scare tactics, claims that hermeneutics don't support this or that view, catch phrases repeated at nauseum, accusations against others for being prideful or not believing God. It goes on and on. What I am not seeing is real substance and simply discussing scripture. It is not a valid argument to claim my view must be wrong because it contradicts a scripture you hold to. It may just as easily be said that your scripture must not mean what you say because it contradicts my scripture.
Here is what I am willing to do. The official position of Narrow Way Forums is that OSAS is a false doctrine. Anyone promoting it is in opposition to our Statement of Faith, and their posts may be removed. That goes for all areas including the Visitor's Forum. Here is what I am willing to try. Anyone can post in this section, including visitors. If you can have a civil discussion that avoids the tactics I mentioned, I will discuss this with you. Keep in mind that the KJV Bible is what we go by, not Greek and Hebrew manuscripts. You may use other translations, but if it contradicts the KJV Bible, we revert back to that as the final authority. Endorsements of preachers who support one view or the other are not allowed and will be removed, as will video links or links to other web-sites.
One other thing. Continually repeating the same scriptures over and over wont be allowed. If you want to discuss a scripture, do it and move on. Make it count, but leave out emotional appeals or personal attacks. Posts will be edited or removed at our discretion if these guidelines aren't followed. If your view has substance, you should welcome this opportunity.
This topic was brought up in the forums, and done in a way that violates our rules. As such, it was removed. If anyone wishes to discuss it using these ground rules in this single thread, feel free.
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