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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 25, 2019 11:02:31 GMT -5
As a full time carer, I get very little, and the amount I get barley pays the bills etc. I try to give what I have (if I have it to give). I love this piece of scripture that our Lord did not look upon percentages rather from what came from the heart (Luke 21:1-4 King James Version (KJV) 1And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had..) She offered all she had.
The rich offered much, but only a tiny fraction of what they had.
The widow gave ALL she had. That was 100%.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 25, 2019 11:06:18 GMT -5
As a full time carer, I get very little, and the amount I get barley pays the bills etc. I try to give what I have (if I have it to give). I love this piece of scripture that our Lord did not look upon percentages rather from what came from the heart (Luke 21:1-4 King James Version (KJV) 1And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury. 2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites. 3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all: 4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had..) She offered all she had.
The rich offered much, but only a tiny fraction of what they had.
The widow gave ALL she had. That was 100%.
Not that giving all you have is an indication of something. Without love it means NOTHING to God.
“And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my
body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.” - 1 Corinthians 13:3
It is not about giving, it is about doing it with love.
“So let each one give as he purposes in his heart,
not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.” - 2 Corinthians 9:7
Blessings!
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 25, 2019 11:11:46 GMT -5
Not that giving all you have is an indication of something. Without love it means NOTHING to God. “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my
body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.” - 1 Corinthians 13:3
It is not about giving, it is about doing it with love.
“So let each one give as he purposes in his heart,
not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.” - 2 Corinthians 9:7
Blessings!
“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?” - Romans 11:35“If I were hungry, I would not tell you;
For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.” - Psalm 50:12“For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.” - Romans 11:36
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 11:20:42 GMT -5
The freedom we have in Christ is the freedom to exceed the requirements of the letter of the Law. Jesus said our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.
Money is called "substance" in scripture...the giving of our substance, because we have laboured with our time and energy to obtain it....it seems to have value in God's eyes that goes beyond the number written on it.
Our whole life belongs to God now, our life is not our own but we were bought with a price. Everything we have and are belongs to Him, so whatever resources we have at our disposal is for the kingdom of God....we are just His stewards. By all means use it to pay for our needs, but really the rest should be considered earmarked for God's service.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 25, 2019 11:26:22 GMT -5
Not that giving all you have is an indication of something. Without love it means NOTHING to God. “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my
body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.” - 1 Corinthians 13:3
It is not about giving, it is about doing it with love.
“So let each one give as he purposes in his heart,
not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.” - 2 Corinthians 9:7
Blessings!
“...For the Lord does not see as man sees;
for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7
This is exactly what so many in the church needs to stop doing: Judging things by appearance.
Many wolves have gained VIP access and control in the church because of this:
Lack of discernment.
People who judge things by appearance, and by this, sometimes they reject the wheat and embrace the tare.
“And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!” - Mark 13:37
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PG4Him
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Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 25, 2019 11:28:52 GMT -5
i do not buy we pay a tithe so God will give the preacher man a word and feed us meat in the sermon. if anyone can prove it by scripture i will repent When a tree begins with a crooked root, it can only grow crooked limbs. The tithe doctrine leads to more and more absurd conclusions. Now we’re told pastors won’t teach us anything interesting because the heavens are shut up of knowledge because people won’t part with their money.
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2019 11:35:36 GMT -5
i do not buy we pay a tithe so God will give the preacher man a word and feed us meat in the sermon. if anyone can prove it by scripture i will repent When a tree begins with a crooked root, it can only grow crooked limbs. The tithe doctrine leads to more and more absurd conclusions. Now we’re told pastors won’t teach us anything interesting because the heavens are shut up of knowledge because people won’t part with their money. Ministers that won't preach, teach or pray for you unless you tithe are hirelings.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 25, 2019 11:39:55 GMT -5
Now we’re told pastors won’t teach us anything interesting because the heavens are shut up of knowledge because people won’t part with their money. Gifts do not operate because of money, they are manifested by faith, working through love.
I believe people should just ask - ministry need money and collaboration - and that help must come from a heart that gives joyfully.
If they focused more on love, it would work like this:
“Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul;
neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.” - Acts 4:32
If God does not keep your ministry running, nothing in this world will (and even if it does, what does it profit if God is not there?).
I like the idea of each one doing their part in announcing the kingdom of God instead of concentrating things in a single building (if you understand me).
Blessings!
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Post by frienduff on Aug 25, 2019 17:31:17 GMT -5
That widow lady gave everything she had . WITH TOTAL JOY and HOPE IN THE LORD . HANDS UP and PRAISETHE LORD . Time to turn this place into a praise fest unto the LORD .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 25, 2019 17:32:39 GMT -5
The freedom we have in Christ is the freedom to exceed the requirements of the letter of the Law. Jesus said our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees. Money is called "substance" in scripture...the giving of our substance, because we have laboured with our time and energy to obtain it....it seems to have value in God's eyes that goes beyond the number written on it. Our whole life belongs to God now, our life is not our own but we were bought with a price. Everything we have and are belongs to Him, so whatever resources we have at our disposal is for the kingdom of God....we are just His stewards. By all means use it to pay for our needs, but really the rest should be considered earmarked for God's service. SOUND it OUT SISTER , SOUND IT OUT . TO the LORD BE ALL GLORY , to the LORD be all PRAISE .
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Post by frienduff on Aug 25, 2019 17:44:29 GMT -5
i do not buy we pay a tithe so God will give the preacher man a word and feed us meat in the sermon. if anyone can prove it by scripture i will repent When a tree begins with a crooked root, it can only grow crooked limbs. The tithe doctrine leads to more and more absurd conclusions. Now we’re told pastors won’t teach us anything interesting because the heavens are shut up of knowledge because people won’t part with their money. EXACTLY . A GOOD TREE WONT PRODUCE BAD FRUIT , and a bad tree does not produce good fruit . IF we are NOT OF CHRIST , then we are OF THE BAD TREE . Their is no inbetween . IN TRUTH we are either TRULY OF CHRIST or we DO NOT KNOW HIM and are NOT OF HIM . And notice , all these hirelings have long fled , they made deals with ROME man and are selling the flocks out . They know what is coming . KENNETH DOES . HE SURE DOES . And he said the reformation IS OVER and that some folks need to get with the program , OR THEY BETTER .............it was the way he said they BETTER and then GIGGLED and stopped . THEY KNOW a ONE WORLD RELIGION IS the GOAL and they KNOW that everyone that does not submit to it , well lets just say they know they wont be loved and accepted by society and the one world govt . They are not dumb men . They are not stupied , THEY KNOW exactly WHAT POPE francis and others have been doing , AND THEY want to sit as kings at the table of this ONE WORLD POWER REOIGION . Lets keep it real . THEY have been given promises . Behind closed doors they have been . THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN AND the love of money IS the ROOT OF ALL EVIL .
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 11:28:29 GMT -5
This was the thread I started to discuss tithing. I got sidetracked with other topics, but there is a lot more that can be added to this thread.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 21:17:29 GMT -5
We know that tithing pre-dates the law of Moses, as Abraham paid tithes. What led to his doing that? Was it something that men had been doing all along? You can go back to Cain and Abel. What made them offer sacrifices to God? I don't see scripture where God commanded it of them, so why did they do it? We also know that Jesus told the Pharisees that tithing was something they were doing that was right, but that they omitted the weightier matters of the law. Still, this was before the cross, and the Levitical Priesthood was still in operation. I can totally see the arguments that tithing was only to support the Temple under the Old Covenant, but what purpose did Abraham paying tithes serve? There was no Levitical Priesthood at the time. That is the same question that is often raised about the Sabbath Day. It pre-dates the Law of Moses, but through what is said in Hebrews, we do see that a physical Sabbath was a type and shadow of something else, the rest we enter into when we come to saving faith in Christ. Back to tithes.
I don't see Abraham being commanded to tithe, yet he did, and it doesn't say gave an offering. It specifically mentions tithes (10 percent). Why a tithe? Is it an eternal truth? Has man always owed God 10 percent of whatever they have? That is the question in my mind. There is no reference to tithing in the epistles, but there is before the law of Moses, in the Law of Moses, and mentioned by Jesus as something the religious leaders did right. Is failure to pay tithes a sin? Is not paying tithes robbing God? Can you pay tithes using currency? You can in the sense you can give 10 percent of your earnings, but does God want 10 percent of your pay check? How about the storehouse? Is that your local church? What if you don't have a local church? There is a lot to consider here, and I just want to come to the truth, because my interest is in pleasing God.
The main passage everyone likes to use to say we are in sin if we don't tithe is from Malachi. If it wasn't for this passage, the accusations of being a thief and being cursed would not be thrown around, but are those accusations valid? Lets examine the passage from Malachi 3:7-12
Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return? Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.
The typical preacher today will say that under the New Covenant, the temple has been replaced by the local church. The priests are replaced by the Pastor. As such, whatever church you are a member of is your storehouse. They will say that you owe God 10 percent of whatever you make, and that you have to bring it to your local church or you are robbing God and cursed with a curse. They further claim that if you pay your tithes to the local church, God will open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
I can see the logic in this. I can see how a sincere local Pastor can believe this to be true. What we are seeing however is Preachers becoming rich off of the backs of the congregation and their tithes. We see them living in mansions, flying around on private jets, and never being satisfied. They always want bigger and better and they expect the congregation to pay for it. It is no wonder that people don't want to tithe to them.
Furthermore, they will preach about tithing and church attendance, while calling anyone that preaches against weightier mattes of the law legalists and Pharisees. What do they call what they are doing when they preach that if you don't tithe, you are a thief and your Christianity is in vain? I feel like we need to forget about these poor excuses for ministers of God and look at the tithe objectively. To me, if we are to give tithes and offerings, it is to God, not men. It does not have to go to a single church, especially if that church is misusing the money, but it goes to God. Who does the Bible say is being robbed? The Pastor? The church? No. It says God is being robbed. Under the New Testament, it never states that the Temple has become your local church. That is just a presumption. We need to consider if tithing is an eternal truth, based on Abraham paying tithes, it being in the Law of Moses, and re-affirmed by Jesus, or if it ended when we came up under the New Covenant. Also, is it 10 percent of whatever we have, or just food?
In addition to looking at this post, what I hope to do is go back to all references in scripture of people tithing and examine the circumstances. I haven't done that yet. Thanks to Candance for bringing this up again. As I told her, I got sidetracked and forgot about this thread, and this is an important topic and something we need to at least try to resolve.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 21:20:20 GMT -5
There are a few things about tithe I would like to point out... We know they had money as far back as Abraham because he used money to purchase a field: And he spake unto Ephron in the audience of the people of the land, saying, But if thou wilt give it, I pray thee, hear me: I will give thee money for the field; take it of me, and I will bury my dead there. — Genesis 23:13Yet the Bible went out of its way to forbid paying tithes with money: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. —Deuteronomy 14:25-27There’s not one sentence in Scripture, Old or New, where the concept of tithe transitioned to money. Money for alms, yes. Money to meet a need, yes. Money for tithe, no. People who worked in business and didn’t own a farm were never expected to “tithe money.” Churches need funds, and Christians should give, but tithe was irrelevant. Tithes was a handy concept that came with a simple 10% math problem. I believe it started as Letters said — we need people to give money in a way that’s easy to manage, here’s this law based on giving 10%, voila. I did want to address this. I do not see this scripture as forbidding anyone to tithe money. I agree with you that I haven't found any scripture that says to tithe currency, though I haven't taken the time to look that closely into it yet, but I don't take this to be saying that God explicitly says we cannot tithe our income.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 2, 2019 21:46:50 GMT -5
The typical preacher today will say that under the New Covenant, the temple has been replaced by the local church. The priests are replaced by the Pastor. As such, whatever church you are a member of is your storehouse. They will say that you owe God 10 percent of whatever you make, and that you have to bring it to your local church or you are robbing God and cursed with a curse. They further claim that if you pay your tithes to the local church, God will open the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it. This is primarily what makes me question the modern tithe doctrine. We must accept fuzzy logic that pastors became Levites, church buildings replaced the temple, and seasonal tithe of crops became weekly tithe of all income. None of this is in Scripture. It may seem intuitive on the surface, but it was invented out of thin air. I have more respect for teachers who at least use the Abraham thing. But even then, when Hebrews says Abraham tithed to one greater than Levi, there’s a conspicuous absence of any call to continue the tradition.
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