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Post by Giller on Aug 30, 2019 19:03:18 GMT -5
There are certain other things of late that have concerned me, which is what a certain preacher or preachers said.
And I am not sure of how they take it now, or if they gave some thought to it, but I know they have been corrected concerning this issue.
What I heard a certain preacher say, was that it is not the resurrection that saved us, but the cross.
Now on one hand, yes it is the cross that atoned for our sins, and not the resurrection, but in saying that, that does not mean that the resurrection did not have some play in our salvation, for it did.
And in truth, the resurrection and the cross work together, you cannot have one without the other.
And at that time this preacher said, show scriptures that the word says that the resurrection saves us, well here they are:
Rom 10:9 (9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1Pe 1:3 (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
I have mentioned things like this to him, i pray that he takes heed.
Although i have noticed that they mention the resurrection more now, and do not recall them mentioning these things as of late.
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Post by Giller on Aug 30, 2019 19:49:50 GMT -5
An another thing that is truly of concern, and is in big error, is this saying of not having a sin conscience, which is popular in hyper faith and hyper grace ministries, but also seems to be making way in many seeker sensitive ministries.
What they say is that if you think positive enough and quote good scriptures, this will override the sin conscience, but the truth is, is we need to be conscience of what sin is.
Paul did not mention these next verses for nothing:
1Th 4:3 (3) For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
1Th 5:22 (22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.
The only way to abstain from all appearance of evil, is you first have to know what is evil.
Now on the other hand, we do not look to the law for our salvation, but look to Christ, but nevertheless we still need the law to convict us from sin, and so we are aware of what the wrong path is.
And we obey God's word, or you can say his laws, not out of a panicked heart, or meritorious heart, but out of a careful, caring, loving heart.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Aug 30, 2019 20:26:56 GMT -5
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. — 1 Corinthians 15:17-21
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Post by Giller on Aug 30, 2019 21:14:30 GMT -5
It is important to study the words atone, saved, born again and so forth, and see what the word of God associates these words with.
Here is a verse on atoning for sin:
Rom 5:9-11 (9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. (11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
And in many old testament verses on atonement it required the death of a lamb, well under the new it required the death of the Lamb (Jesus).
Jesus atoned for our sins, by his death on the cross.
And thus we were reconciled to God.
And because of the cross, and now resurrection life (through the resurrection), we can have victory over sin.
The resurrection, and the cross, work together, and each have their place and part in our salvation.
Were one is the other will be also.
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Post by Giller on Aug 30, 2019 21:16:01 GMT -5
I like the verse that says we overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb, and the word of our testimony.
It mentions 2 things here.
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Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 31, 2019 5:53:22 GMT -5
...It’s never quite been explained how spiritually dead people in darkness can worship God in spirit and truth... They cannot. One can only worship God in truth if they know the truth.
“You worship what you do not know...” - John 4:22
“But the hour is coming, and now is,
when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth...” - John 4:23
One thing I have seen in many churches is that people (even the lost) are almost forced to worship by hearing things like:
Why are you so shy?! They won't go to heaven. Now jump, jump, jump.
Do not be cold! Worship, worship, worship.
A forced worship from the heart of an unbeliever in darkness means nothing, it would be better if they behaved sincerely.
I believe we should not force people to worship in any way (believers or unbelievers).
Worship must flow from the heart that sincerely loves the Lord, otherwise it means nothing and is just vain worship.
And I would like to add that worship does not mean to go to church and/or meet some believers, speak tongues, manifest some power, do a miracle, cast out some demons, etc.
“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
And then I will declare to them,
‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” - Matthew 7:22-23
God wants sincere worshipers, who are willing to worship in spirit and truth, 24 hours a day. “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love... I am nothing.” - 1 Corinthians 13:1,2
“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge,
and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” - 1 Corinthians 13:2
How you live, how you treat people, how you behave when you misbehave, God is seeing all.
And is your attitude being of a true worshiper?
“Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity,
but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
“He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.” - 1 John 4:8
“Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love...” - Ephesians 5:1-2
There are people who think that to worship God simply means to shout praises to His name, sing aloud, etc.
God is looking for true worshipers, shouting praises to His name without love for whom He truly is means nothing to Him.
“The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord...” - Proverbs 15:8
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Post by frienduff on Aug 31, 2019 8:35:53 GMT -5
There are certain other things of late that have concerned me, which is what a certain preacher or preachers said. And I am not sure of how they take it now, or if they gave some thought to it, but I know they have been corrected concerning this issue. What I heard a certain preacher say, was that it is not the resurrection that saved us, but the cross. Now on one hand, yes it is the cross that atoned for our sins, and not the resurrection, but in saying that, that does not mean that the resurrection did not have some play in our salvation, for it did. And in truth, the resurrection and the cross work together, you cannot have one without the other. And at that time this preacher said, show scriptures that the word says that the resurrection saves us, well here they are: Rom 10:9 (9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 1Pe 1:3 (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, I have mentioned things like this to him, i pray that he takes heed. Although i have noticed that they mention the resurrection more now, and do not recall them mentioning these things as of late. Again it is because the set apart deity of Christ has to be changed . More and more speeches like he rose spiritually not in a physical body are being touted . They have to break down the uniqueness , set apart deity of Christ . Christ must be made to be just like other false prophets were in order for mainstream to go with the flow . In order to achieve their desired goal of all roads lead and God is in all religions . We cant have one being raised from the dead and those who witnessed this , THEN saying WHO he claimed to be . My Lord and my God . No , this would get in the way of all religions being seen as equal . JESUS made some serious claims of WHO HE WAS , and Those witnesses that saw HIM alive AFTER the cross say many things as well . The many do not like ABSOLUTES , because absolutes absolutely get in the way of their desired goal . They come to sow confusion , they come to create doubt , they come to break down the absolute validity of the holy scriptures in order to create ................another image . An image that will serve and give them the desires of their hearts and goals . And what image , or what spirit would be as god and honor the flesh . Satan is being worshipped . We have to come to the childlike trust in GOD , and any child of HIM would trust what that bible says . Because a child of GOD trusts truth . A child of GOD has been born again and now worships in Spirit and in truth and would learn the absolute truth in that bible . Once the enemy causes doubt and distrust , He will cause more doubt and distrust . And he has many men and women doing his work . Giller , we are so far along in the remolding and creation of what folks THINK is God but in truth is simply the one who said , I SHALL BE AS GOD . I straightup have never seen such a connection , a bond , a unity a collective togetherness for the sake of humanity growing as I do today . This is now well advanced and will morph into not only all out worship of satan , but all out hatred against TRUTH and any who would dare even speak it and against any who dare not accept it or go with the flow .
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Post by Giller on Aug 31, 2019 9:34:19 GMT -5
Ya I agree they do a lot of that in the faith movement, which they say Jesus died spiritually.
But concerning the certain preacher I am talking about, they do mention the resurrection, and are against the doctrine of Jesus dying spiritually.
But in that specific preacher saying what he said, he was in some fashion minimizing what the resurrection did for us, which lately they have not mentioned it at all, and have been preaching on the resurrection to some degree.
I just pray they take heed, for the resurrection did have a play in our salvation, which so did the cross, let us never minimize either one.
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Post by John on Aug 31, 2019 10:25:26 GMT -5
Ya I agree they do a lot of that in the faith movement, which they say Jesus died spiritually. But concerning the certain preacher I am talking about, they do mention the resurrection, and are against the doctrine of Jesus dying spiritually. But in that specific preacher saying what he said, he was in some fashion minimizing what the resurrection did for us, which lately they have not mentioned it at all, and have been preaching on the resurrection to some degree. I just pray they take heed, for the resurrection did have a play in our salvation, which so did the cross, let us never minimize either one. There has to be a reason for making light of the importance of the resurrection in our salvation. I suppose a person could not see it as playing a part because of ignorance, but what would cause a minister to go out of his way to make an issue out of it? To go to the point of challenging people to show it matters makes me suspect they have doubts about the Lord's physical resurrection. If you corrected this minister, and he has stopped mentioning it, that is not the same as changing it. Chances are, he still believes what he said originally, but thinks it isn't worth pushing for fear of alienating some.
As a minister, I wouldn't push an issue to that degree unless I felt it was important. I might mention it in passing, but to go to the point of challenging someone to prove me wrong means that I feel like it is important. What is the importance of convincing the congregation that you don't need the resurrection to be saved? That would be troubling to me.
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Post by Giller on Aug 31, 2019 11:55:20 GMT -5
Ya I agree they do a lot of that in the faith movement, which they say Jesus died spiritually. But concerning the certain preacher I am talking about, they do mention the resurrection, and are against the doctrine of Jesus dying spiritually. But in that specific preacher saying what he said, he was in some fashion minimizing what the resurrection did for us, which lately they have not mentioned it at all, and have been preaching on the resurrection to some degree. I just pray they take heed, for the resurrection did have a play in our salvation, which so did the cross, let us never minimize either one. There has to be a reason for making light of the importance of the resurrection in our salvation. I suppose a person could not see it as playing a part because of ignorance, but what would cause a minister to go out of his way to make an issue out of it? To go to the point of challenging people to show it matters makes me suspect they have doubts about the Lord's physical resurrection. If you corrected this minister, and he has stopped mentioning it, that is not the same as changing it. Chances are, he still believes what he said originally, but thinks it isn't worth pushing for fear of alienating some.
As a minister, I wouldn't push an issue to that degree unless I felt it was important. I might mention it in passing, but to go to the point of challenging someone to prove me wrong means that I feel like it is important. What is the importance of convincing the congregation that you don't need the resurrection to be saved? That would be troubling to me.
Ya I agree, and it is troubling to me, just will watch what happens.
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Post by John on Aug 31, 2019 11:57:31 GMT -5
There has to be a reason for making light of the importance of the resurrection in our salvation. I suppose a person could not see it as playing a part because of ignorance, but what would cause a minister to go out of his way to make an issue out of it? To go to the point of challenging people to show it matters makes me suspect they have doubts about the Lord's physical resurrection. If you corrected this minister, and he has stopped mentioning it, that is not the same as changing it. Chances are, he still believes what he said originally, but thinks it isn't worth pushing for fear of alienating some.
As a minister, I wouldn't push an issue to that degree unless I felt it was important. I might mention it in passing, but to go to the point of challenging someone to prove me wrong means that I feel like it is important. What is the importance of convincing the congregation that you don't need the resurrection to be saved? That would be troubling to me.
Ya I agree, and it is troubling to me, just will watch what happens. You showed him the truth. That is more than most would have done. At least he is not continuing to push something that is clearly false.
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