PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Aug 30, 2019 18:01:41 GMT -5
This is to continue our discussion about “carnal Christians” and what Paul really meant by that term.
We have two groups of people to consider here. First are those who practice sinful lifestyles and/or wicked deeds. The second group are Christians who do not practice wickedness but remain humanistic in their thinking and doctrine.
On the first group, Paul made it clear that those who practice evil are not Christians. He didn’t say they were works in progress. He didn’t say they were in the faith but maybe a bit immature. Those who practice works of darkness don’t even qualify to be called Christians...
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. — Ephesians 5:5-7
Paul didn’t call them baby Christians. He called them children of disobedience who have no lot with Christ.
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. — 1 Timothy 5:8
But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan. — 1 Timothy 5:11-15
Again, Paul didn’t say these rebellious actions were the work of a carnal Christian. He said these people have lost the faith and turned to Satan.
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. — Titus 2:4-5
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this verse taught in church.
If you can find a verse where Paul even hinted that works of unrighteousness were to be tolerated or overlooked in baby Christians, I’d like to see it.
In the next post we’ll look at the second group, which is actually where we see references to Christians in their flesh.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Aug 30, 2019 18:19:10 GMT -5
Among the children of light who have put off sinful behaviors, there are some with good intentions who come up with religious-sounding ideas in their fleshly minds. They’re not deliberately sinning, but they’re wrong in their doctrine. Paul identified this as a major source of false doctrines, and it’s here he warned that carnal thinking can lead a righteous man astray...
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind — Colossians 2:18
These were not children of disobedience addicted to the world — they were devoutly religious but trapped in fleshly minds.
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. — Colossians 2:20-23
Again we see fervent religious devotion incorrectly focused on material things.
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? — 1 Corinthians 3:3-4
Denominational divisions based on loyalty to a man is carnal thinking. These Christians were enthusiastic in their faith, but they were misguided.
Thus we see that carnality within a “Christian” is a matter of carnal thinking on spiritual things. To suggest that Paul would say a Christian can be deliberately sinful is to blatantly put words in Paul’s mouth. His comment about Corinthians being carnal had nothing to do with works of darkness. They were immature, they were imperfect, but they were not children of disobedience.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Aug 30, 2019 18:44:19 GMT -5
Then we have the issue of the lukewarm church...
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. — Revelation 3:15-16
People who deliberately practice unrighteousness are not neutral. There’s nothing neutral about being wicked. Jesus knew them, and they were in the faith, but they were sort of inert or inactive. They were not as effective as they thought. None of this suggests they were children of darkness. To say that workers of unrighteousness qualify for this is to add words to the text.
We know that Paul already made it clear the children of darkness have no lot with Christ.
|
|
|
Post by 2fw8212a on Aug 30, 2019 20:39:20 GMT -5
“Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
“The Lord knows those who are His,” and,
“Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”” - 2 Timothy 2:19
“For all who do such things,
all who behave unrighteously, are an abomination to the Lord your God.” - Deuteronomy 25:16
“Therefore do not be partakers with them.” - Ephesians 5:7
|
|
|
Post by John on Aug 31, 2019 12:54:01 GMT -5
This is to continue our discussion about “carnal Christians” and what Paul really meant by that term. We have two groups of people to consider here. First are those who practice sinful lifestyles and/or wicked deeds. The second group are Christians who do not practice wickedness but remain humanistic in their thinking and doctrine. On the first group, Paul made it clear that those who practice evil are not Christians. He didn’t say they were works in progress. He didn’t say they were in the faith but maybe a bit immature. Those who practice works of darkness don’t even qualify to be called Christians... For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. — Ephesians 5:5-7 Paul didn’t call them baby Christians. He called them children of disobedience who have no lot with Christ. But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. — 1 Timothy 5:8But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan. — 1 Timothy 5:11-15Again, Paul didn’t say these rebellious actions were the work of a carnal Christian. He said these people have lost the faith and turned to Satan. That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. — Titus 2:4-5I don’t think I’ve ever heard this verse taught in church. If you can find a verse where Paul even hinted that works of unrighteousness were to be tolerated or overlooked in baby Christians, I’d like to see it. In the next post we’ll look at the second group, which is actually where we see references to Christians in their flesh. I couldn't agree more, and it took me by surprise to learn that anyone called sinners like that "carnal Christians." I have never heard anyone do that, but then again, I haven't been sitting under a Pastor in a physical church since the 90s. The church has undergone a lot of changes since then, and not for the good. Those who are continuing in open willful sins will not make it to heaven. They are not to be excuses.
|
|
|
Post by John on Aug 31, 2019 13:00:09 GMT -5
Then we have the issue of the lukewarm church... I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. — Revelation 3:15-16
People who deliberately practice unrighteousness are not neutral. There’s nothing neutral about being wicked. Jesus knew them, and they were in the faith, but they were sort of inert or inactive. They were not as effective as they thought. None of this suggests they were children of darkness. To say that workers of unrighteousness qualify for this is to add words to the text. We know that Paul already made it clear the children of darkness have no lot with Christ. I agree, and this shows how different people can be using the same language but mean something entirely different. When I have called someone a carnal Christian, I was never meaning it was a Christian man with a mistress or a woman who is a thief. I was talking about a person who was lukewarm, as was mentioned in Revelation. Of course, denominational loyalties would be carnal, like saying "I am Pentecostal Holiness till I die," or "I am Baptist by conviction." That is carnal. Even when I call myself Pentecostal, I only mean I am full gospel. It is just for clarification. I will leave any group that departs from sound doctrine.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 16:18:43 GMT -5
(I deleted my post...it wasn't going in the same direction as the OP.)
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Aug 31, 2019 23:00:08 GMT -5
Then we have the issue of the lukewarm church... I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. — Revelation 3:15-16
People who deliberately practice unrighteousness are not neutral. There’s nothing neutral about being wicked. Jesus knew them, and they were in the faith, but they were sort of inert or inactive. They were not as effective as they thought. None of this suggests they were children of darkness. To say that workers of unrighteousness qualify for this is to add words to the text. We know that Paul already made it clear the children of darkness have no lot with Christ. The lukewarm is probably the largest number in this age . AND if they repent not , get the worst punishment . WE can see this in the old test too . Remember when God sends I think its Elisha , and HE says , IF you want to serve baal then GO serve HIM , ONLY LEAVE MY NAME OUT OF IT . GOD hates the mix . But GOD always sends a repent or else FIRST . HE tells even the lukewarm to REPENT , to be zealous and repent but if they don't , THEY WILL NO LIKE THAT END .
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Aug 31, 2019 23:01:57 GMT -5
(I deleted my post...it wasn't going in the same direction as the OP.) Okay dear sister . but I was coming here to read it when I seen you had made a post . You are loved dear sister . Maybe you can bring it in another area .
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Aug 31, 2019 23:03:46 GMT -5
“Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal:
“The Lord knows those who are His,” and,
“Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”” - 2 Timothy 2:19“For all who do such things,
all who behave unrighteously, are an abomination to the Lord your God.” - Deuteronomy 25:16“Therefore do not be partakers with them.” - Ephesians 5:7 Well that is right to the POINT . GOOD JOB MY FRIEND OF MANY LETTERS . Even though I know these things , YOU ALL Don't know how much JOY it is , JUST TO HEAR THEM AGAIN . JUST JOYS the heart . But then those are SPIRIT INSPIRED WORDS . THEY SHOULD REJOICE OUR HEARTS . NOW HANDS UP LETTERS . HANDS UP and praise the LORD .
|
|
|
Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 6:11:54 GMT -5
Then we have the issue of the lukewarm church... I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. — Revelation 3:15-16
People who deliberately practice unrighteousness are not neutral. There’s nothing neutral about being wicked. Jesus knew them, and they were in the faith, but they were sort of inert or inactive. They were not as effective as they thought. None of this suggests they were children of darkness. To say that workers of unrighteousness qualify for this is to add words to the text. We know that Paul already made it clear the children of darkness have no lot with Christ. The lukewarm is probably the largest number in this age . AND if they repent not , get the worst punishment . WE can see this in the old test too . Remember when God sends I think its Elisha , and HE says , IF you want to serve baal then GO serve HIM , ONLY LEAVE MY NAME OUT OF IT . GOD hates the mix . But GOD always sends a repent or else FIRST . HE tells even the lukewarm to REPENT , to be zealous and repent but if they don't , THEY WILL NO LIKE THAT END .
I would agree that lukewarm is the condition of the majority in the church today, and they will be spewed out. It is not okay to be half in and half out. We need to choose this day who we are going to serve.
|
|