PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 1, 2019 16:39:54 GMT -5
is this going to take place during normal service time? like worship and preaching and prayer time? If so...
This happened on the main church stage during formal service times. You can see the footage on YouTube.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 1, 2019 17:25:56 GMT -5
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Eph 4:14-15 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Jde 1:21-23 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Col 4:6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. My thoughts on this is that it appears from scripture that Jesus and the apostles had more than one gear and evangelized, preached/taught according to the specific needs of the people..…as known by God and led by the Holy Spirit. Those gears included a whole range of things from simple instruction, to reproof, to comfort, admonishments, encouragements, warnings, healing, deliverance, etc. Severity in terms of preaching seemed to have been mostly reserved for the erring leaders of Jesus day who were leading the people astray and rejecting He who came in the name of the Lord. I don't think anyone is suggesting all messages must be negative. The question is whether the Bible teaches all messages should be positive? Clearly it does not. Look at Stephen's message and Peter's message in Acts, and Jesus' sermon on the mount. But I pretty much agree with you about different messages for different groups and times based on the leading of the Holy Spirit.
Heres where we better all be on guard . So let me sum it up very simple . every dire warning to every promise , every rebuke to every honoring , ITS all POSITIVE . Folks need to relearn what negative versus positive really is . Anything , Anything that feeds the flesh is NEGATIVE . ANYTHING that feeds the spirit the soul of a man Now matter how dire hard even the rebuke is , no matter how chastened even , ITS POSITIVE . Let us relearn what negative versus positive really is . An uncorrected church , IS TOTAL NEGATIVE , and unfed bible focused total Negative . What is positive and negative , TOO has been changed to pander to EMOTIONS . Its like everything is being pandered these days to serve one god above all , SELF . And that is what GOT SATAN cast out of heaven . I never again want to ever once hear from anyone that sharp rebukes , necessary reminders daily of what is good and to constanly avoid evil IS NEGATIVE . ITS ALL POSITIVE . say it with me everyone , ITS ALL POSITIVE . CONSTANT reminders are what by grace I will be sounding out
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Post by frienduff on Sept 1, 2019 17:27:42 GMT -5
These churches are flat out tanked real bad . Its went from bad , to worse , to now VILE man . Guess what , THAT IS A POSITIVE REMINDER .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 1, 2019 17:33:39 GMT -5
Some folks are seasonal . When the season starts changing SO DO THERE EMOTIONS . We gotta keep them emotions in check . We have to be here for one another more than ever . Always exhorting , always remninding always stirring up by way of remembrance the pure ways , the pure path , the pure gospel always exhorting . Let me give a hint about what paul was once writing . REMEMBER when he said FOR ME its not grievous to remind you of these things But for you IT IS NEEDFUL . BEWARE OF ............ See the lovey lovey aint grievious to souls . PAUL was talking about the dangers , he was constantly warning about dangers and not to be partakers of those who teach or practice things contrary . FOLKS don't like these reminders ,for the same reason they don't like being reminded we are in the last days . THEY TOO BUSY LIVING FOR SELF and don't want those reminders . Because true reminders will convict folks in sin . AND THOSE whose life is a flesh entertain me , WONT be liking the pure reminders . THE TO DO and NOT TO DO , IS TERMENED LEGALISTIC . BUT THE live for oneself is termed GODS BEST FOR YOU . I just have to keep things real . Folks we all agree its gotten quite bad , GUESS what , ITS ABOUT TO MORPH even far worse. YEP . KEEP THE HOPE ON JESUS and living HOLY in HIM and BY HIM . If that bores folks , then they are DEAD SPIRTUALLY but very alive FLESHLY .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 1, 2019 18:28:26 GMT -5
Frienduff you are right brother. Anything that feeds our spirit is positive. When God brings conviction, it’s not a time to weep, but a time to rejoice, for He has freed us from the fetters of another sin. Last Wednesday when He moved so powerfully in Bible study, He brought a word for repentance, but it felt as refreshing as a cool rain. Nothing God has for us is negative.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Sept 1, 2019 18:59:30 GMT -5
is this going to take place during normal service time? like worship and preaching and prayer time? If so...
This happened on the main church stage during formal service times. You can see the footage on YouTube. Yeah. lots of people forget Him on His birthday to. God was saying way back in Ezekiel... "because thou hast forgotten me"
*sigh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 19:55:30 GMT -5
My thoughts on this is that it appears from scripture that Jesus and the apostles had more than one gear and evangelized, preached/taught according to the specific needs of the people..…as known by God and led by the Holy Spirit. Those gears included a whole range of things from simple instruction, to reproof, to comfort, admonishments, encouragements, warnings, healing, deliverance, etc. Severity in terms of preaching seemed to have been mostly reserved for the erring leaders of Jesus day who were leading the people astray and rejecting He who came in the name of the Lord. ok. I can roll with this... more than one gear.
what i am looking for is also one. one example. a single time in the bible anyone used Gods love alone to draw them in. So, if they had more than one gear surely we can find that "sweet spot" and do like mazda. (zoom zoom)
where is the scriptural evidence of even one account of the tactic just preach about Gods love deployed?
No question the church is not doing things right nowadays, I was just trying to look at scripture without respect to what anyone else is doing. The Lord warned me some years ago to not look back at Sodom, because that breeds self-righteousness and error in itself. No question that some are saved by compassion, so yes the love of God certainly is often a necessary part of evangelism. Not in a syrupy fleshly way, but the way of the Holy Spirit. I believe the whole gospel needs to be preached in love, and some are saved by fear as well. We just need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bathwater on both sides, and that's kind of where I stand on this issue in general.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 20:59:56 GMT -5
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Eph 4:14-15 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Jde 1:21-23 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Col 4:6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. My thoughts on this is that it appears from scripture that Jesus and the apostles had more than one gear and evangelized, preached/taught according to the specific needs of the people..…as known by God and led by the Holy Spirit. Those gears included a whole range of things from simple instruction, to reproof, to comfort, admonishments, encouragements, warnings, healing, deliverance, etc. Severity in terms of preaching seemed to have been mostly reserved for the erring leaders of Jesus day who were leading the people astray and rejecting He who came in the name of the Lord. I don't think anyone is suggesting all messages must be negative. The question is whether the Bible teaches all messages should be positive? Clearly it does not. Look at Stephen's message and Peter's message in Acts, and Jesus' sermon on the mount. But I pretty much agree with you about different messages for different groups and times based on the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I wasn't arguing against anything brother or suggesting anything about anything.....I only wanted to bring some of those scriptures forward to get a sense of how the word of God approached things.....as well as my soapbox issue about being balanced and not one-sided on things and throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I've lived long enough to see the cycles, and pendulums swinging wildly from one side to the other. We just need to set our faces like flint, stay the course, not go beyond what is written, and look neither to the right nor the left, regardless of what anyone else is doing. The truth is not relative to what others are doing or not doing, the truth is the truth and just stands the same no matter how the winds are blowing.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 4:38:12 GMT -5
Frienduff you are right brother. Anything that feeds our spirit is positive. When God brings conviction, it’s not a time to weep, but a time to rejoice, for He has freed us from the fetters of another sin. Last Wednesday when He moved so powerfully in Bible study, He brought a word for repentance, but it felt as refreshing as a cool rain. Nothing God has for us is negative. frienduff, I agree with you and Candance. I have never really thought of it like that, even rebukes being positive when God brings them, but you are right. It is doing nothing but harm to people when we keep bringing them messages of blessings when evil is coming because of our sins. It is truth that we need at all times. That is what is profitable for us. Great reminders.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 7:49:24 GMT -5
Frienduff you are right brother. Anything that feeds our spirit is positive. When God brings conviction, it’s not a time to weep, but a time to rejoice, for He has freed us from the fetters of another sin. Last Wednesday when He moved so powerfully in Bible study, He brought a word for repentance, but it felt as refreshing as a cool rain. Nothing God has for us is negative. Amen, He is working all things together for our good. Might not always feel so good at times...Godly sorrow worketh repentance and chastisement does not seem joyous at the time. But His kindness leads to repentance as well....and when He doesnt' treat us as we know we deserve, it breaks our heart (in a good way).
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 8:23:43 GMT -5
Frienduff you are right brother. Anything that feeds our spirit is positive. When God brings conviction, it’s not a time to weep, but a time to rejoice, for He has freed us from the fetters of another sin. Last Wednesday when He moved so powerfully in Bible study, He brought a word for repentance, but it felt as refreshing as a cool rain. Nothing God has for us is negative. Amen, He is working all things together for our good. Might not always feel so good at times...Godly sorrow worketh repentance and chastisement does not seem joyous at the time. But His kindness leads to repentance as well....and when He doesnt' treat us as we know we deserve, it breaks our heart (in a good way). God is good. He always gives us better than we deserve.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 2, 2019 8:23:46 GMT -5
I really didn’t base my comments on the condition of the mainstream church. To me this is not about comparing ourselves to Sodom. I’m saying the old saints had a totally different definition of preaching in love, one that seems hard to even a devout holiness person today. After I got saved, for many years I thought I was pretty serious about holiness — until I read the Bible with no modern doctrinal assumptions. Since then I’ve continued to know Christians who consider themselves conservative yet are worldly in comparison to other generations. We’ve lost a great deal of knowledge and power. Even in the best churches.
Supposing we do want to draw people to God (only) based on love. Not speaking truth in love, but literally saying nothing other than “God loves you.” That’s what Cletus is looking for. No explanation of sin, no comments on what Jesus saved us from, just getting people saved on the basis that God loves them. Is this biblically possible?
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 8:28:19 GMT -5
I really didn’t base my comments on the condition of the mainstream church. To me this is not about comparing ourselves to Sodom. I’m saying the old saints had a totally different definition of preaching in love, one that seems hard to even a devout holiness person today. After I got saved, for many years I thought I was pretty serious about holiness — until I read the Bible with no modern doctrinal assumptions. Since then I’ve continued to know Christians who consider themselves conservative yet are worldly in comparison to other generations. We’ve lost a great deal of knowledge and power. Even in the best churches. Supposing we do want to draw people to God (only) based on love. Not speaking truth in love, but literally saying nothing other than “God loves you.” That’s what Cletus is looking for. No explanation of sin, no comments on what Jesus saved us from, just getting people saved on the basis that God loves them. Is this biblically possible? It is not Biblically possible. It leads to false conversions where no repentance takes place. No repentance means no salvation occurred.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 2, 2019 9:42:00 GMT -5
I really didn’t base my comments on the condition of the mainstream church. To me this is not about comparing ourselves to Sodom. I’m saying the old saints had a totally different definition of preaching in love, one that seems hard to even a devout holiness person today. After I got saved, for many years I thought I was pretty serious about holiness — until I read the Bible with no modern doctrinal assumptions. Since then I’ve continued to know Christians who consider themselves conservative yet are worldly in comparison to other generations. We’ve lost a great deal of knowledge and power. Even in the best churches. Supposing we do want to draw people to God (only) based on love. Not speaking truth in love, but literally saying nothing other than “God loves you.” That’s what Cletus is looking for. No explanation of sin, no comments on what Jesus saved us from, just getting people saved on the basis that God loves them. Is this biblically possible? We know you did not dear sister . To expose the wicked is simply reminding daily that we do not do the evil they did . There is nothing wrong , and its much needed, in exposing the error of the wicked . Their is no self righteousness in this . IF we think we some great thing , THEN YEAH WE GOT PROBLEMS . But to simply expose error and expound on truth , IS IN DIRE NEED . Examples of wrong thinking . a. I cant believe folks can be this way , I COULD NEVER DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT . YEAH , and RIGHT . the correct response would be while exposing the evil , we know real deep this , WERE IT NOT FOR the GRACE OF GOD , OH WE WOULD BE DOING and LOVING THE SAME EVIL THEY DO . NOW that is RIGHT and TRUE . But to expose evil , to expose the wrong churches , IS GOOD , we do things to ensure that none ever once even consider looking in that direction . ALSO we must increase the doing and performance of doing good . I think we simply must by grace , DO the entire pattern the early church both taught and kept . WAIT , did I just I say I think , NO , I KNOW WE SHOULD . ALSO folks are forgetting something . LOVE is simply doing all things necessary for the welfare of others above ourselves . And to correct IS ALL PART OF THAT . It aint jus about having or giving to those who need physical things , BUT MUCH MORE is GIVING WHAT IS SPIRITUALLY NEEDED . IF love were just about giving goods to the poor , THEN WHY the more paul LOVED was the LESS he was loved . EXACTLY . ITS BECAUSE HIS LOVE CORRECTED MAN . JUST LIKE JESUS DID . TRUE LOVE EXPOSES what is evil and corrects , ensuring the welfare of the soul of the other . Compare the minisitry of JESUS and the apostels to todays examples . TODAY its all focused on feeding the poor , accepting one for who they are , inclusive love YET HOW was the approach of JESUS , WHO WE KNOW IS LOVE , and paul and others WHO WE KNOW FOLLOWED HIM . WHILE HE said and the aposetls did say feed the poor , Most of it was reminders of what .................dangers of error , dangers of sin , warning against false ones GO and sin no more , cut off whatever causes you to err . Reminding daily and often about WALKING AS DID JESUS . CONTINUIN IN HIM , avoiding evil DOING GOOD . And by good that means OBEIDANCE UNTO HIM , UNTO GOD . BEING hearers and DOERS . GO reread all the gosples and the letters and revelations and lets see what the reminders were on . THEN GO THOU and DO LIKEWISE . WE in a serisouly deceptive day and age . TRULY , oh TRULY I have never seen such a delusion and one that grows as does a hurricane over fat very warm waters . And when that hurricane of deception does rise to its full power of delusion , IT WILL STRIKE FULL FORCE against any and all who were not of its clouds .
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Post by 2fw8212a on Sept 2, 2019 9:45:44 GMT -5
I really didn’t base my comments on the condition of the mainstream church. To me this is not about comparing ourselves to Sodom. I’m saying the old saints had a totally different definition of preaching in love, one that seems hard to even a devout holiness person today. After I got saved, for many years I thought I was pretty serious about holiness — until I read the Bible with no modern doctrinal assumptions. Since then I’ve continued to know Christians who consider themselves conservative yet are worldly in comparison to other generations. We’ve lost a great deal of knowledge and power. Even in the best churches. Supposing we do want to draw people to God (only) based on love. Not speaking truth in love, but literally saying nothing other than “God loves you.” That’s what Cletus is looking for. No explanation of sin, no comments on what Jesus saved us from, just getting people saved on the basis that God loves them. Is this biblically possible? It is not Biblically possible. It leads to false conversions where no repentance takes place. No repentance means no salvation occurred.The Spirit operates on truth, and confirms it. Without truth it is not possible for genuine conversion to take place.
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.” - John 6:63
Truth is part of God's love, you cannot have one without the other.
If people want comfort, they must get it from truth otherwise it is just deception.
The Lord will encourage and support all who wants to live and embrace the truth.
“...Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” - Luke 18:8
It is one of the strategies of Satan:
Eliminate truth from preaching so the Spirit will not work and consequently not confirm the word being preached.
Do not be deceived, love without truth is not love at all.
It is like letting your children fall from a cliff just because they found it nice and you let them go just because you wouldn't want them sad.
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