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Post by solid on Sept 2, 2019 20:06:10 GMT -5
To me, just preach the whole Bible. Don't neglect anything in it. I agree. That is what we are told to do. If we preach the whole counsel of the Word of God, everything won't be Jesus loves you messages. There will be warnings in many of them.
Some think preaching against sin and about anything negative turns people off, but it used to work. What changed?
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 20:15:50 GMT -5
I agree. That is what we are told to do. If we preach the whole counsel of the Word of God, everything won't be Jesus loves you messages. There will be warnings in many of them.
Some think preaching against sin and about anything negative turns people off, but it used to work. What changed? I actually think that something has changed in people's attitudes. Notice what it says in 2 Timothy 4:1-5...
I CHARGE thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
The Bible speaks of a time when people will not endure sound doctrine. I believe that time is now. I saw something taking place back in the 90s, and the attitudes in the church changed drastically. I don't even recognize the church anymore it is so different, and I don't mean for the good. God still has a remnant that want the truth, but the majority will not only reject the truth, but they will persecute those that bring it. Look at how those in the truth were done at another message board. They can't endure sound doctrine over there. Look at that garbage you get from the mega-church Pastors! They don't preach about things that matter. It is all prosperity and blessings all the time, no matter how you live.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Sept 2, 2019 20:16:04 GMT -5
I really didn’t base my comments on the condition of the mainstream church. To me this is not about comparing ourselves to Sodom. I’m saying the old saints had a totally different definition of preaching in love, one that seems hard to even a devout holiness person today. After I got saved, for many years I thought I was pretty serious about holiness — until I read the Bible with no modern doctrinal assumptions. Since then I’ve continued to know Christians who consider themselves conservative yet are worldly in comparison to other generations. We’ve lost a great deal of knowledge and power. Even in the best churches. Supposing we do want to draw people to God (only) based on love. Not speaking truth in love, but literally saying nothing other than “God loves you.” That’s what Cletus is looking for. No explanation of sin, no comments on what Jesus saved us from, just getting people saved on the basis that God loves them. Is this biblically possible? It is not Biblically possible. It leads to false conversions where no repentance takes place. No repentance means no salvation occurred.
DING DING DING... WE HAVE A WINNER!!!
this is a big part of why i began this thread. False gospel = False Jesus = false salvation.
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Post by 4hizglory37 on Sept 2, 2019 20:17:45 GMT -5
I think a lot of the preaching today in trying to reach people are based on methods, rather than the leading of the Spirit, some are into numbers, some are into the 5 or 7 step plan, whatever steps their is in their method, it is all about the next big strategy session, or brain storming their way into the next big thing. It is a bunch of fads. This totally grieves my heart. Even when I am on the sites for Worship music, they talk about how to use the worship music to get more people to come to church. It is no longer praising and worshipping the Father and total focus on Him! They don't invite the Holy Spirit to lead them in the service, it is all about how to please men rather than God. It is horizontal worship rather than vertical worship. It is sadly all about the numbers.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 20:21:20 GMT -5
I think a lot of the preaching today in trying to reach people are based on methods, rather than the leading of the Spirit, some are into numbers, some are into the 5 or 7 step plan, whatever steps their is in their method, it is all about the next big strategy session, or brain storming their way into the next big thing. It is a bunch of fads. This totally grieves my heart. Even when I am on the sites for Worship music, they talk about how to use the worship music to get more people to come to church. It is no longer praising and worshipping the Father and total focus on Him! They don't invite the Holy Spirit to lead them in the service, it is all about how to please men rather than God. It is horizontal worship rather than vertical worship. It is sadly all about the numbers. Everything is about numbers, money and power to control your life. It is not about God anymore.
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Cletus
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Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Sept 2, 2019 20:22:43 GMT -5
I think a lot of the preaching today in trying to reach people are based on methods, rather than the leading of the Spirit, some are into numbers, some are into the 5 or 7 step plan, whatever steps their is in their method, it is all about the next big strategy session, or brain storming their way into the next big thing. It is a bunch of fads. This totally grieves my heart. Even when I am on the sites for Worship music, they talk about how to use the worship music to get more people to come to church. It is no longer praising and worshipping the Father and total focus on Him! They don't invite the Holy Spirit to lead them in the service, it is all about how to please men rather than God. It is horizontal worship rather than vertical worship. It is sadly all about the numbers. what i have noticed that grieves me is a good many of the songs being put out today have the false gospel being promoted today in them. you have to listen close to the lyrics, but a good many do.
i just change the song when its vertical. (aint nobody got no time for that)
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Post by 4hizglory37 on Sept 2, 2019 20:25:25 GMT -5
It used to be that the power of God was present at church meetings and people would turn out for that reason. In a powerless church, I guess this is the new way to get people to come.
It is so sad that that statement is so true! The Church today, is weak, on life support! just like in the Book of Revelations Revelations 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. The present Church is the result of the preachers not speaking on repentance, holiness, righteousness, and ONLY speaking that God is love! The Lord is all those things and He is not one without the others. The Lord will send that cleansing fire, it ain't gonna be pretty or pleasant, but Oh we so need that cleansing fire to purify us and refine us! Get ready Saints!!!! We truly are gonna be washed in the Blood of the Lamb when we stand firm in our faith to the end, enduring with patience! PRAISE THE LORD!!!!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 20:33:40 GMT -5
This totally grieves my heart. Even when I am on the sites for Worship music, they talk about how to use the worship music to get more people to come to church. It is no longer praising and worshipping the Father and total focus on Him! They don't invite the Holy Spirit to lead them in the service, it is all about how to please men rather than God. It is horizontal worship rather than vertical worship. It is sadly all about the numbers. what i have noticed that grieves me is a good many of the songs being put out today have the false gospel being promoted today in them. you have to listen close to the lyrics, but a good many do.
i just change the song when its vertical. (aint nobody got no time for that)
Thank you for mentioning that Cletus. It is such an important thing that you brought up. They are preaching a false gospel more and more in the songs.
I used to be a huge promoter of southern gospel music back in the 80s. I even ran a southern gospel internet station for a while, and had listeners from all over the world, even places like Israel. I still like good southern gospel, but I don't listen to southern gospel radio stations like I once did because of the messages in the songs, and I don't promote it anymore like I once did. They are preaching the false grace message in many of the songs. To me, that is more dangerous than secular radio in that we expect gospel songs to be good and edifying and truthful. We don't expect them to be preaching false doctrine to us in the words of the songs. At least with the secular music, we know that is worldly. We aren't looking to it for truth.
One song in particular I remember that had the false gospel message in it was called, "You Are Loved." I forget the name of the group, but the song went so far as to have a person calling on God to forgive them for some sin, only to have God say they did nothing wrong. It goes on like, You are loved beyond your failures, you are loved beyond your past, something like that. Horrible message in a catchy song. I won't promote that stuff. If I was running a gospel station today, I would have to carefully listen to the lyrics of every song to weed out false messages like that. We really are in a war. It is the children of the flesh and their "faith plus nothing" lie against the children of promise.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 20:38:53 GMT -5
It used to be that the power of God was present at church meetings and people would turn out for that reason. In a powerless church, I guess this is the new way to get people to come.
It is so sad that that statement is so true! The Church today, is weak, on life support! just like in the Book of Revelations Revelations 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked. The present Church is the result of the preachers not speaking on repentance, holiness, righteousness, and ONLY speaking that God is love! The Lord is all those things and He is not one without the others. The Lord will send that cleansing fire, it ain't gonna be pretty or pleasant, but Oh we so need that cleansing fire to purify us and refine us! Get ready Saints!!!! We truly are gonna be washed in the Blood of the Lamb when we stand firm in our faith to the end, enduring with patience! PRAISE THE LORD!!!!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!!! We are not living right, we are not preaching the whole Word of God, and we are not following the Biblical order for how the church is to operate. It is no wonder we have no power. We can't manufacture the power of God. God will move as He chooses to, but I do believe that if we will return to the Bible, and actually follow it, God will see our faith and will begin to pour out his Spirit and his blessings upon us. The people today are trying to get God to move among disobedient children preaching a false gospel. They think if they just jump up and down and repeat praise and worship choruses enough, God will overlook the sin and rebellion and move on them and bless them anyway. It doesn't work that way. They can get numbers, but they can't get a real move of God.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 21:22:43 GMT -5
I only meant that the Lord is sovereign and to be prepared to be overruled by Him if He wants to go in another direction than the person had planned. Even in that comment, I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean he may overrule your pre-conceived idea that it is wrong to violate God's Word in some way, or do you mean he may overrule you when it comes down to plans you made involving an avenue of ministry or a major purchase or something like that?
We're getting our wires crossed. Never mind brother....I think our side conversation is cluttering up the thread at this point so let's just leave it here. Probably my short answer (which was just meant to kindly answer Cletus' question more directly) wasn't short enough and I'm sorry for the confusion. I tried to delete it but unfortunately it doesn't remove it where it was quoted. So there we are. You have a good night.
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Post by John on Sept 2, 2019 21:28:10 GMT -5
Even in that comment, I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean he may overrule your pre-conceived idea that it is wrong to violate God's Word in some way, or do you mean he may overrule you when it comes down to plans you made involving an avenue of ministry or a major purchase or something like that?
We're getting our wires crossed. Never mind brother....I think our side conversation is cluttering up the thread at this point so let's just leave it here. Probably my short answer (which was just meant to kindly answer Cletus' question more directly) wasn't short enough and I'm sorry for the confusion. I tried to delete it but unfortunately it doesn't remove it where it was quoted. So there we are. You have a good night. That is okay Watchful. I am not going to press you on it, but I was reading what you said and couldn't be sure of your meaning. I didn't even know if I agreed or disagreed because I wasn't sure what you meant. If you just want to leave it here, I am okay with that. You have a good night too.
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Cletus
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Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Sept 2, 2019 21:43:33 GMT -5
ok. I can roll with this... more than one gear.
what i am looking for is also one. one example. a single time in the bible anyone used Gods love alone to draw them in. So, if they had more than one gear surely we can find that "sweet spot" and do like mazda. (zoom zoom)
where is the scriptural evidence of even one account of the tactic just preach about Gods love deployed?
No question the church is not doing things right nowadays, I was just trying to look at scripture without respect to what anyone else is doing. The Lord warned me some years ago to not look back at Sodom, because that breeds self-righteousness and error in itself. No question that some are saved by compassion, so yes the love of God certainly is often a necessary part of evangelism. Not in a syrupy fleshly way, but the way of the Holy Spirit. I believe the whole gospel needs to be preached in love, and some are saved by fear as well. We just need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bathwater on both sides, and that's kind of where I stand on this issue in general. Indeed. and this is why i am asking others if they can provide even one scripture that shows this... I stand on Gods Word.
out of two forums... not just this one... not one has shown even one scripture to show a single solitary example where one of Gods chosen has used this only preach love method to draw them in. The idea of this tactic is the root of quite a few false teachings.
The closest i can come to what i ask is when Jesus was at Jacobs well and spoke with the Samaritan woman. He didnt preach repentance that we know of... but he also didnt just speak of Gods love... He told her "all she ever did" and so because of this believed. we do not know if the womans 5 husbands all died or not sowe cant say she is guilty of adultery. the man she is with at the time Jesus spoke to her is not her husband. todays time for a conservative christian would say the woman is living in sin, living with someone she is not married to. i was young and dumb once. I know what happens when a man and woman live together. but anyway, Jesus didnt use the tactic of only Gods love here. Now repentance was also not preached and Living water was discussed. at least not in the passage in John 4... however it goes on later to say this:
Joh 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. Joh 4:40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. Joh 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word; Joh 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. Joh 4:43 Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
now in all fairness scripture says he stayed there for two days. The passage leaves much to be desired as far as knowing what all Jesus did actually say while there. Based on what I read God had a plan... when Jesus tells the woman to go tell the man.. and then He ends up staying for two days. I do not think its wise to build a foundation of how we reach the lost based off of well Jesus didnt say anything about repentance here. Jesus preached more about hell than heaven. Jesus went around saying repent for the kingdom is at hand. who was the audience then? was it pharassies? regular everyday jews? who did He say that to?
and lets also just take a moment to acknowledge that if the testimony that got all these Samaritans to believe on Jesus was... He told me all I ever did... at some point the thought surely would cross their mind... you mean, He knows about when i did ... (insert sinful act here) ...too? oh my. let me not do that again.
so i am still not seeing just preach Gods love alone in this passage.
I do not think we should preach condemnation. that only pushes people away. but how can we tell someone the "good news" if we give them only part of it. the good news is Christ died for sinners and is risen. many now say repentance is not apart of the gospel. really?
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Zec 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
notice i put OT verses in there too? repentance is not just to the "church age"... it was and is Gods message to all generations. so how is it that it has become popular now that we dont need to preach that... only lets just speak on Gods love alone and that will draw them? you see, the concern for numbers is more than following Christs commands. a good portion of the church has run ahead of God, has said we know better how to evangelist to the lost than you God, has forgotten God and His ways... a good portion of the church is not being led by The Spirit. they are doing their own thing. my purpose in this thread isnt to say this is how we do it or dont do it... my purpose is to show how some are doing it is wrong, they are false, and to plant seeds in some so later they will see it... hey this guy uses this method. my prayer is that peoples eyes will be opened to those who are false.
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Post by 4hizglory37 on Sept 2, 2019 23:47:13 GMT -5
If the Church is not preaching on repentance along with the Gospel of salvation through God's gift of grace, there is and will NEVER BE A CHANGE IN THE LIFE OF THE BELIEVER. People seem to forget that we are called to be holy because God is holy. It does not say in His Word we are called to be love, because He is love. Yes, we need to love others as we love ourselves and love the Father first and foremost but there needs to be repentance.
When the broken come before the Holy Father, He is the One that will bind up their broken hearts, because that is His job not ours!!! He is the One that sets the captives free, not us but by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Our job is to point to Jesus who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We preach the FULL GOSPEL WHICH INCLUDES REPENTANCE, SALVATION THROUGH GRACE.
I can't stand when they even teach the young children that all they have to do is believe and they are saved. They are never told, that you have to repent and through the power of the Holy Spirit and our will, we need to start choosing to turn from our old ways, sins, and start to live for Jesus, to submit to the authority of Christ. There is no more teaching of turning from sins! I guess this goes back to that heresy of the OSAS doctrine that goes along with the "God is love" teaching too.
We gotta start preaching REPENT!!! FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!! AGAIN I SAY, REPENT!!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 6:58:40 GMT -5
No question the church is not doing things right nowadays, I was just trying to look at scripture without respect to what anyone else is doing. The Lord warned me some years ago to not look back at Sodom, because that breeds self-righteousness and error in itself. No question that some are saved by compassion, so yes the love of God certainly is often a necessary part of evangelism. Not in a syrupy fleshly way, but the way of the Holy Spirit. I believe the whole gospel needs to be preached in love, and some are saved by fear as well. We just need to be careful of throwing the baby out with the bathwater on both sides, and that's kind of where I stand on this issue in general. Indeed. and this is why i am asking others if they can provide even one scripture that shows this... I stand on Gods Word.
out of two forums... not just this one... not one has shown even one scripture to show a single solitary example where one of Gods chosen has used this only preach love method to draw them in. The idea of this tactic is the root of quite a few false teachings.
The closest i can come to what i ask is when Jesus was at Jacobs well and spoke with the Samaritan woman. He didnt preach repentance that we know of... but he also didnt just speak of Gods love... He told her "all she ever did" and so because of this believed. we do not know if the womans 5 husbands all died or not sowe cant say she is guilty of adultery. the man she is with at the time Jesus spoke to her is not her husband. todays time for a conservative christian would say the woman is living in sin, living with someone she is not married to. i was young and dumb once. I know what happens when a man and woman live together. but anyway, Jesus didnt use the tactic of only Gods love here. Now repentance was also not preached and Living water was discussed. at least not in the passage in John 4... however it goes on later to say this:
Joh 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did. Joh 4:40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days. Joh 4:41 And many more believed because of his own word; Joh 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. Joh 4:43 Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
now in all fairness scripture says he stayed there for two days. The passage leaves much to be desired as far as knowing what all Jesus did actually say while there. Based on what I read God had a plan... when Jesus tells the woman to go tell the man.. and then He ends up staying for two days. I do not think its wise to build a foundation of how we reach the lost based off of well Jesus didnt say anything about repentance here. Jesus preached more about hell than heaven. Jesus went around saying repent for the kingdom is at hand. who was the audience then? was it pharassies? regular everyday jews? who did He say that to?
and lets also just take a moment to acknowledge that if the testimony that got all these Samaritans to believe on Jesus was... He told me all I ever did... at some point the thought surely would cross their mind... you mean, He knows about when i did ... (insert sinful act here) ...too? oh my. let me not do that again.
so i am still not seeing just preach Gods love alone in this passage.
I do not think we should preach condemnation. that only pushes people away. but how can we tell someone the "good news" if we give them only part of it. the good news is Christ died for sinners and is risen. many now say repentance is not apart of the gospel. really?
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Zec 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
notice i put OT verses in there too? repentance is not just to the "church age"... it was and is Gods message to all generations. so how is it that it has become popular now that we dont need to preach that... only lets just speak on Gods love alone and that will draw them? you see, the concern for numbers is more than following Christs commands. a good portion of the church has run ahead of God, has said we know better how to evangelist to the lost than you God, has forgotten God and His ways... a good portion of the church is not being led by The Spirit. they are doing their own thing. my purpose in this thread isnt to say this is how we do it or dont do it... my purpose is to show how some are doing it is wrong, they are false, and to plant seeds in some so later they will see it... hey this guy uses this method. my prayer is that peoples eyes will be opened to those who are false.
Brother I understand what you are getting at and agree with the gist of what you are saying. The modern day churches are doing it wrong for sure....they are becoming more and more nominal and depending more and more on the flesh rather than the Lord.....relying on psychology, manipulation, man-centred ideas about the gospel, and other methods. The love they preach is one-sided and humanistic. I only wanted to caution against throwing the baby out with the bathwater....not saying anybody is doing that, but just a caution because it is so easy to do.....I've seen cycles like that in churches come and go, and sometimes by the grace of the Lord can discern danger approaching before it gets here, so cautions need to go out to ward things off before they arrive. I would add that the love of God is certainly an important part of the gospel message....it might have got lost in the shuffle but I did mention the passage that says "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever would believe in Him would have eternal life." God IS love, and his love is sometimes healing and comforting and sometimes it is like a father's discipline, and sometimes He does get righteously angry. Just depends on His wisdom and knowledge of what any person needs at any given time, so evangelizing needs to be led by the Spirit. Some might need a fire and brimstone approach and some need an approach based on compassion....that is scriptural...some save by fear, some by compassion. I'm not a preacher or evangelist and don't want to presume, but I believe they should be led by the Spirit and preach a well rounded overall gospel message in love. Speaking the truth in love...so also preaching the gospel in love overall. And just a thought but most people nowadays don't even know what repent means, it's a word that has gone out of usage in our society...so that might need to be preached in words that people can understand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2019 7:00:44 GMT -5
We're getting our wires crossed. Never mind brother....I think our side conversation is cluttering up the thread at this point so let's just leave it here. Probably my short answer (which was just meant to kindly answer Cletus' question more directly) wasn't short enough and I'm sorry for the confusion. I tried to delete it but unfortunately it doesn't remove it where it was quoted. So there we are. You have a good night. That is okay Watchful. I am not going to press you on it, but I was reading what you said and couldn't be sure of your meaning. I didn't even know if I agreed or disagreed because I wasn't sure what you meant. If you just want to leave it here, I am okay with that. You have a good night too.
I should have learned by now not to try and post things when I'm tired, it never comes out right.
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