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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2019 13:18:56 GMT -5
When JESUS prayed in the garden . WHO DID HE PRAY for and WHO did HE NOT PRAY FOR . JESUS prayed for the desciples and for all who would come to faith through their word . I PRAY NOT FOR THE WORLD . HE SAID THAT TOO . HE said that . While it is true GOD desires none to perish . And HE WILL warn men and church TO REPENT . When GOD says Jacob have I loved but Essau have I hated . He really does depise evil works and those who reject Him , CHRIST , and correction . Leave them BE , EVERY PLANT that my FATHER has not planted , shall be rooted up . They the blind leading the blind . Let us simply focus on Christ , sound bible doctrine . Everthing that also the apostels wrote . Every warning , every promise , every mention of repent or else . Let it all be taken serious and embrace and loved . FOR EVERY WORD of GOD is as the pure dripping of the most rich flowing honey known . FEAST on them words and have big fat bellies of WORD EATEN TRUTH . TIME IS RUNNING OUT and the DELUSION will take any and all in its web that is not in the lambs book of life . The strong delusion will be believed and many will be damned . Let the last days church GO OUT as did the early church , FAITHFUL TO , TRUSTING IN and OBEDIANT UNTO THE HOLY LORD . SHOWING the PROOF of their love .
Oh no doubt God despised the works of Esau, and showed disfavor towards him, but nevertheless he still gave all a chance to come to him. And also we cannot ignore the verse that says to hate mother and father, yet another scripture explains it as saying to not love them more than God. THE TRUTH IS , HIS DESIRE is that NONE WOULD PERISH . JESUS said HE will not come back , TILL the entire gospel has been preached round the whole world . GOD gave the chance , its on men that rejected JESUS . JESUS did not pray for those who would reject HIM . That is what I was pointing out . HIS prayer was FOR all beleivers through all ages . And again I agree , GOD desires none to perish . YOU are right . But REJECT GOD , REJECT the SON or follow another version of JESUS that rejects the biblical one , OH DEAR THE DAY OF THE LORD will be a day of great wailing and weeping .
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2019 13:20:16 GMT -5
I do see your point on the Jesus being the friend of publicans and sinners thing, I just reread it, and never saw it that way before. Mat 11:19 (19) The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. It actually was a false accusation, because we know that Jesus was not a winebibber, and a gluttonous man, and it seems that they were saying that he was a friend of publicans and sinners, in a negative way, to were he would enjoy getting gluttonous with them, getting drunk with them, which is not the case. I never knew that it was used in a negative way when Jesus being a friend of publicans and sinners was said. But on other topics, I truly do believe that God loves the world as the bible says he does, and that he would that none would perish, but that all should come to repentance, which he gives a chance to all to come to repentance, which requires to show some type of love, for God is love. But if people reject his love, reject his salvation, then they will ultimately face God's wrath , and go to hell. Now concerning the this verse: Psa 5:5 (5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Are you saying that all sinners are workers of iniquity? Or just the ones who are not willing to repent right away? Because you gave an answer, but it is not quite clear to me. And also we have to remember that not every you plant a seed right to, is at that moment ready to repent. And it is by the Spirit of God that we show love towards other people, even in the realm of loving your enemies, it is Christ flowing through us, and God showing love through us. I agree that John 3:16 means God loves the world, but I don't think we take that the same way.
The other question is a bit tricky because God already knows who will ultimately get saved. With that in mind, God hates all sin and those who will never come to Jesus to be saved.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 10, 2019 13:20:33 GMT -5
So on that note , I BELEIVE EVERYONE KNOWS what TIME IT IS . ITS REJOICING IN THE LORD TIME . But as I have often said and so love to keep saying.................THE TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD is at all times .
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2019 13:30:44 GMT -5
Eph 5:11 (11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Now of course the bible says to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
2Co 6:14 (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
We are not to have fellowship with them.
Now in your mind John, can we be a friend to unbelievers, without participating in their ways, or talking their talk, but by remaining as a witness to them?
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Post by Giller on Sept 10, 2019 13:35:23 GMT -5
Oh no doubt God despised the works of Esau, and showed disfavor towards him, but nevertheless he still gave all a chance to come to him. And also we cannot ignore the verse that says to hate mother and father, yet another scripture explains it as saying to not love them more than God. THE TRUTH IS , HIS DESIRE is that NONE WOULD PERISH . JESUS said HE will not come back , TILL the entire gospel has been preached round the whole world . GOD gave the chance , its on men that rejected JESUS . JESUS did not pray for those who would reject HIM . That is what I was pointing out . HIS prayer was FOR all beleivers through all ages . And again I agree , GOD desires none to perish . YOU are right . But REJECT GOD , REJECT the SON or follow another version of JESUS that rejects the biblical one , OH DEAR THE DAY OF THE LORD will be a day of great wailing and weeping .
Oh by the way I agree with you that Jesus did not pray for the whole world, and yet there is an interesting verse said in the epistles: 1Ti 2:1-3 (1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; (2) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. (3) For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; I know that Jesus was limited to a certain area, but the aposltes after Pentecost were not. I know for myself , I just pray for whoever God lays upon my heart, and I know that the whole world will not be saved, for we can see that from scripture.
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2019 13:37:30 GMT -5
Eph 5:11 (11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Now of course the bible says to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. 2Co 6:14 (14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? We are not to have fellowship with them. Now in your mind John, can we be a friend to unbelievers, without participating in their ways, or talking their talk, but by remaining as a witness to them? Yes. We can't reach them if we can't be friends. It may well be that we will be the one to lead them to the Lord.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 10, 2019 14:28:13 GMT -5
Just because people end up in hell doesn’t mean God sent them there through hate. I believe He grieves and mourns for every lost soul that perishes. Remember His compassion for Nineveh. They were outcast from Israel, nowhere near righteous, yet God sent Jonah to spare them.
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? — Jonah 4:11
God felt sorry for these foolish people. We see it in Genesis when He tried to find ten righteous people to spare Sodom. God takes no delight in punishing people. And remember Jesus said it will be better for Tyre and Sidon on judgment day than for apostate Jerusalem. There are indeed varying levels of punishment hereafter.
People sentence their own selves to judgment because they reject Him. The Lord is forced to hate them because they are so vile, but He doesn’t start out hating them. He hates what they become. It’s possible to believe in a real hell while also believing God grieves for those who choose it.
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2019 15:05:57 GMT -5
Just because people end up in hell doesn’t mean God sent them there through hate. I believe He grieves and mourns for every lost soul that perishes. Remember His compassion for Nineveh. They were outcast from Israel, nowhere near righteous, yet God sent Jonah to spare them. And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? — Jonah 4:11 God felt sorry for these foolish people. We see it in Genesis when He tried to find ten righteous people to spare Sodom. God takes no delight in punishing people. And remember Jesus said it will be better for Tyre and Sidon on judgment day than for apostate Jerusalem. There are indeed varying levels of punishment hereafter. People sentence their own selves to judgment because they reject Him. The Lord is forced to hate them because they are so vile, but He doesn’t start out hating them. He hates what they become. It’s possible to believe in a real hell while also believing God grieves for those who choose it. We are 100 percent responsible for our own choices and actions. I do not blame God at all for people rejecting His son and winding up in hell. I just don't necessarily think that some of the scriptures people use prove that God loves everyone no matter what, like John 3:16. I am not totally convinced one way or the other about this topic. I believe that God hates certain things. The Bible says so, but does he hate sinful men and women or even Satan and the fallen angels? I am interested in everyone's thoughts.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 10, 2019 15:13:12 GMT -5
False teachers definitely go around parroting that God is love, but that doesn’t stop it from being true.
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2019 15:16:03 GMT -5
False teachers definitely go around parroting that God is love, but that doesn’t stop it from being true. God is love, but He has many other attributes as well.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 10, 2019 15:28:17 GMT -5
False teachers definitely go around parroting that God is love, but that doesn’t stop it from being true. God is love, but He has many other attributes as well.
I didn’t say otherwise...? Only that we shouldn’t let false teachers dictate our understanding of Scripture.
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Post by John on Sept 10, 2019 15:32:05 GMT -5
God is love, but He has many other attributes as well.
I didn’t say otherwise...? Only that we shouldn’t let false teachers dictate our understanding of Scripture. I agree, and sometimes we are guilty of doing that. Ideally, we should simply look to scripture and look for the correct meaning of the text without letting either extreme influence us. Sadly, we are human, and there are times we do allow those voices to effect what we say and do without meaning to.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 0:51:20 GMT -5
Here are verses on who the workers of iniquity are: Mat 7:15 (15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:21-23 (21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now on one hand at least in these verses, it seems to mention the religious or religious leaders as workers of iniquity, but do the workers of iniquity only refer to these? Well no, here is another scripture: Luk 13:22-29 (22) And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. (23) Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, (24) Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (25) When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: (26) Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. (27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. (28) There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (29) And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. Now here Jesus was just speaking to people in cities and villages, and the message was that if one does not strive to enter in at the strait gate, they will not make it, and they will be thrust out, and God will say to them, depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Any one that does not strive to enter in at the strait gate, is an unbeliever, and all these people are workers of iniquity, and even us before we were saved were all workers of iniquity, for all we knew was sin, we were dead in our trespasses, and whatsoever is not of faith is sin. And now I will put scriptures, side by side to each other: Psa 5:5 (5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
| Joh 3:16-17 (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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So if all unbelievers are workers of iniquity, and God says that he so loved the world, and yet he hateth all workers of iniquity, then who does God love in the world, and who does God hate? Or is God capable of having more than one emotion at a time? Can God after a certain manner Love all the people in the world, yet also hate the workers of iniquity? See concerning the workers of iniquity, it is just simply mentioning people that do not strive to enter at the strait gate, it is not mentioning whether at one point they will receive the Lord or not, but just that a worker of iniquity is not presently striving to enter at the strait gate, which at one time, I was one of them. Which at one time, because I was a worker of iniquity, God had some type of hate or disapproval towards me, yet he still showed his love to me, and lead me through people, to him, and saved me, I think God is capable of having both. In what way would God hate the workers of iniquity, because they are human, no absolutely not, but rather because they are not putting their faith in him, to be saved, thus they are rejecting God, so he hates their iniquity, and hates what they have become because of it, but they themselves as being humans, in being made in the image of God, in that realm he loves them. He does not love them because they are in a sinful state, but rather he loves them besides that, because they have been made into his image. Don't tell me that workers of iniquity cannot get saved, for I was one of them, and yet he saved me. Don't tell me that God only shows love to some, and not to all, for his act of sending his Son, for all, was love.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 1:10:34 GMT -5
Psa 5:5 (5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
| Joh 3:16-17 (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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So if God both loves the world, and yet hates workers of iniquity, then can both be true at the same time? And can both be true in their own respect, and in their own way? Because man, the world is the world, I do not know how you can get any other interpretation. And workers of iniquity, comprise of every one that has not put their faith in God, which is a lot of people. And in fact we were all one, at one time. And God is not like us, he is much greater than us. And even in verse 17, of John it describes God not sending his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved, it mentions people of the world needing salvation (might be saved), which are unbelievers, man oh man, the word explains itself. It does not say he only loves some of the world, but that he actually loves the world, even the unbelieving world which needs salvation. People who need salvation is all them that are outside of Christ, which he loves them.
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Post by Giller on Sept 11, 2019 1:17:22 GMT -5
One verse that i like is this:
1Jn 4:19 (19) We love him, because he first loved us.
i do not have any thing specific to say on this verse, but I do like it.
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