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Post by John on Sept 25, 2019 17:48:42 GMT -5
Sister this answer spooked me , it did . spooked me real bad . Do you want to know why . ITS the way every one who has held onto a belief that is false , answers . ALWAYS ye just have to spiritually understand it . IF you have no answer , then rethink what you think you know . DO it . Because I can explain to folks why I believe and how I believe on any subject that I do believe . You know I love you and you know I don't think YOU ARE FALSE at all . BUT I am telling you I have delt with mega false ones and they answer JUST like you did , in other words they cant , BUT HEY we need to just trust and heed their spiritual knowledge . SISTER , you loved , but be careful . TRY your best to explain this . IF not , leave it be and don't teach it .
Brother, I HAVE been trying to explain the last two or three days..... (whether i have done it well or not is another question, but I have tried)....I just don't think I can say anything more that I haven't already said. It's a matter of understanding. Do we truly believe that Jesus exercises authority the way the princes of this world do?....that He comes in an attitude of DEMANDING obedience and exercises force? Does He violate His own word.....that He asks His followers not to be like that, while He Himself is like the princes of this world? That there is no difference between the authority wielded by fallen man and that of Christ? That He will rule and reign in the millennium in the same manner as the fallen rulers of this world do? We think He needs to, somehow? Do YOU believe that? All one has to do is go back and read the Old Testament and see how God rules, how he demands obedience. That was long before men ever came to positions of power. Jesus said that he is I AM, meaning God, the same God that gave Moses the 10 Commandments and demanded obedience throughout the Old Testament. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. We see what God did to Ananias and Sapphira in the New Testament, as well as Herod. We see that Jesus will come back and conquer the earth in a military battle and rule over it. Yes, He will demand obedience and exercise force. We see this in the Bible. Jesus came on a mission his first time to die on a cross. The next time he returns as a conquering King.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 17:53:50 GMT -5
I don't think so brother......it is not something perceived by the carnal mind but with the mind of Christ. Sister this answer spooked me , it did . spooked me real bad . Do you want to know why . ITS the way every one who has held onto a belief that is false , answers . ALWAYS ye just have to spiritually understand it . IF you have no answer , then rethink what you think you know . DO it . Because I can explain to folks why I believe and how I believe on any subject that I do believe . You know I love you and you know I don't think YOU ARE FALSE at all . BUT I am telling you I have delt with mega false ones and they answer JUST like you did , in other words they cant , BUT HEY we need to just trust and heed their spiritual knowledge . SISTER , you loved , but be careful . TRY your best to explain this . IF not , leave it be and don't teach it .
Why do we always need to look at everything through the lens of the false? Are the things of God spiritually discerned or are they not? Good then...I have said nothing wrong. And I'm sure not asking or expecting anyone to trust anything on my say-so.....golly NO....but am hoping to provoke a seeking of the LORD for what they need.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 25, 2019 18:18:09 GMT -5
Sister this answer spooked me , it did . spooked me real bad . Do you want to know why . ITS the way every one who has held onto a belief that is false , answers . ALWAYS ye just have to spiritually understand it . IF you have no answer , then rethink what you think you know . DO it . Because I can explain to folks why I believe and how I believe on any subject that I do believe . You know I love you and you know I don't think YOU ARE FALSE at all . BUT I am telling you I have delt with mega false ones and they answer JUST like you did , in other words they cant , BUT HEY we need to just trust and heed their spiritual knowledge . SISTER , you loved , but be careful . TRY your best to explain this . IF not , leave it be and don't teach it .
Why do we always need to look at everything through the lens of the false? Are the things of God spiritually discerned or are they not? Good then...I have said nothing wrong. And I'm sure not asking or expecting anyone to trust anything on my say-so.....golly NO....but am hoping to provoke a seeking of the LORD for what they need. They are spiritually discerned . But after spiritually discerning them I can then by the same spirit explain it as well . Sister no one is saying you are false at all . Maybe this will make it easier to explain . What difference do you see between fleshly and spiritual leadership. Because in truth they can appear the same and yet are not . I guess an example would help . SO here goes . JUST because I am huge on warning , exhorting and ensuring that folks obey Christ , keep HIS sayings and the pattern of the apostels , who rebuked and had unrepentant ones cast out , DONT Mean I am doing this BY the FLESH . ITS BY THE SPIRIT I warn . Its easy to see the difference , even with those who profess a false humility . THE difference between FLESHLY leadership or SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP is .............WHO IS GETTING EXALTED . EXACTLY . Is it the man OR GOD ALONE . ITS easy to discern one who follows CHRIST and does by the SPIRIT . OH they gonna be dog serious against sin and error , BUT THEY WONT BE pointing to exergis or hermes or anything , BUT JESUS . THAT IS THE KEY and that is the SECRETE . WHO are we pointing too when we DO as we DO . Do I often sound grave and serious , YEP , but always I say READ ONLY BIBLES , OBEY JESUS , FOLLOW HIM , HEED THE SPIRIT DO I warn against any errors , YES , but who am I pointing too . JESUS . I say IF WE WOULD WALK in the SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . YET most folks attack and say , SO you don't sin EHHHH . YET I did not say , IF I JUST WALK , to WALK , I SAID if we would FOLLOW JESUS , THE SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . SPIRITUAL is way different than fleshly , THOUGH they can appear quite the same at times . I mean fleshly can be waners too , AND YET who do they point too . DO they accuse , OR is it just because they truly do have a real genuine FEAR for those in SIN . But spiritual leaders , WILL for sure and for certain LAY DOWN GROUND RULES . But this age don't like that word very much . BUT THOSE RULES , BELONGED TO JESUS FIRST and THEN THE APOSTELS . Folks don't like BEING TOLD what to do , ME THINKS THEY Don't like beingreminded about all that is coming and even now is , THEY had rather just sit in a artificial peace land and put big DO NOT DISTURB my false security name tags on . Well , if they think that's gonna change old frienduff and have me try and change my approach to suit their name tag, OH DEAR They got another thing coming . FOR by grace I have been a doing the same thing for years and I got no plans to work outside THE GRACE OF GOD and pander to men . YOU LOVED SISTER . I KNOW YOU DONT EITHER . SO HANDS UP and PRAISE THE LORD .
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Post by John on Sept 25, 2019 18:38:32 GMT -5
Have you considered how Christ deals with the churches in Revelation? Did you notice what he said about the church in Thyatira, and how he was going to deal with a false prophetess if she didn't repent? Jesus speaking said, "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts; and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." Does that sound like Jesus is saying obedience is optional? That was Revelation 2:21-23
Notice what Jesus says about the future. Revelation 2:26-27 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father." Does this sound like Jesus is going to be gently asking for obedience?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 18:47:33 GMT -5
Why do we always need to look at everything through the lens of the false? Are the things of God spiritually discerned or are they not? Good then...I have said nothing wrong. And I'm sure not asking or expecting anyone to trust anything on my say-so.....golly NO....but am hoping to provoke a seeking of the LORD for what they need. They are spiritually discerned . But after spiritually discerning them I can then by the same spirit explain it as well . Sister no one is saying you are false at all . Maybe this will make it easier to explain . What difference do you see between fleshly and spiritual leadership. Because in truth they can appear the same and yet are not . I guess an example would help . SO here goes . JUST because I am huge on warning , exhorting and ensuring that folks obey Christ , keep HIS sayings and the pattern of the apostels , who rebuked and had unrepentant ones cast out , DONT Mean I am doing this BY the FLESH . ITS BY THE SPIRIT I warn . Its easy to see the difference , even with those who profess a false humility . THE difference between FLESHLY leadership or SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP is .............WHO IS GETTING EXALTED . EXACTLY . Is it the man OR GOD ALONE . ITS easy to discern one who follows CHRIST and does by the SPIRIT . OH they gonna be dog serious against sin and error , BUT THEY WONT BE pointing to exergis or hermes or anything , BUT JESUS . THAT IS THE KEY and that is the SECRETE . WHO are we pointing too when we DO as we DO . Do I often sound grave and serious , YEP , but always I say READ ONLY BIBLES , OBEY JESUS , FOLLOW HIM , HEED THE SPIRIT DO I warn against any errors , YES , but who am I pointing too . JESUS . I say IF WE WOULD WALK in the SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . YET most folks attack and say , SO you don't sin EHHHH . YET I did not say , IF I JUST WALK , to WALK , I SAID if we would FOLLOW JESUS , THE SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . SPIRITUAL is way different than fleshly , THOUGH they can appear quite the same at times . I mean fleshly can be waners too , AND YET who do they point too . DO they accuse , OR is it just because they truly do have a real genuine FEAR for those in SIN . But spiritual leaders , WILL for sure and for certain LAY DOWN GROUND RULES . But this age don't like that word very much . BUT THOSE RULES , BELONGED TO JESUS FIRST and THEN THE APOSTELS . Folks don't like BEING TOLD what to do , ME THINKS THEY Don't like beingreminded about all that is coming and even now is , THEY had rather just sit in a artificial peace land and put big DO NOT DISTURB my false security name tags on . Well , if they think that's gonna change old frienduff and have me try and change my approach to suit their name tag, OH DEAR They got another thing coming . FOR by grace I have been a doing the same thing for years and I got no plans to work outside THE GRACE OF GOD and pander to men . YOU LOVED SISTER . I KNOW YOU DONT EITHER . SO HANDS UP and PRAISE THE LORD .
It's not anything to do with you frienduff.....we're talking about Jesus here. And addressing two issues in particular....whether His character and approach is to "demand" obedience from us and whether His kingship and authority is the same as the world's. No one is saying that we shouldn't be obedient and nor am I saying that Christ has no authority.....God forbid. No I don't believe you can explain spiritual things with carnal logic.....Jesus didn't. Iv'e done my best here and am just out of things to say on this for now, unless the Lord gives me more. Oh okay, maybe one little thing more.......is our obedience a checklist of do's and don'ts out of fear of punishment (old way of the letter....ministry of death).....or is it based on better things like love and for His sake, because He is worthy, for the sake of righteousness and His kingdom etc (new way of the spirit....life). As a man thinks so is he....if we think Jesus demands obedience and is standing over us threatening to beat us on the head with an iron pole for disobeying then it might be we are missing the point and not serving Him as we should...which is faith working through love...and without faith it is impossible to please Him.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 25, 2019 18:51:19 GMT -5
They are spiritually discerned . But after spiritually discerning them I can then by the same spirit explain it as well . Sister no one is saying you are false at all . Maybe this will make it easier to explain . What difference do you see between fleshly and spiritual leadership. Because in truth they can appear the same and yet are not . I guess an example would help . SO here goes . JUST because I am huge on warning , exhorting and ensuring that folks obey Christ , keep HIS sayings and the pattern of the apostels , who rebuked and had unrepentant ones cast out , DONT Mean I am doing this BY the FLESH . ITS BY THE SPIRIT I warn . Its easy to see the difference , even with those who profess a false humility . THE difference between FLESHLY leadership or SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP is .............WHO IS GETTING EXALTED . EXACTLY . Is it the man OR GOD ALONE . ITS easy to discern one who follows CHRIST and does by the SPIRIT . OH they gonna be dog serious against sin and error , BUT THEY WONT BE pointing to exergis or hermes or anything , BUT JESUS . THAT IS THE KEY and that is the SECRETE . WHO are we pointing too when we DO as we DO . Do I often sound grave and serious , YEP , but always I say READ ONLY BIBLES , OBEY JESUS , FOLLOW HIM , HEED THE SPIRIT DO I warn against any errors , YES , but who am I pointing too . JESUS . I say IF WE WOULD WALK in the SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . YET most folks attack and say , SO you don't sin EHHHH . YET I did not say , IF I JUST WALK , to WALK , I SAID if we would FOLLOW JESUS , THE SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . SPIRITUAL is way different than fleshly , THOUGH they can appear quite the same at times . I mean fleshly can be waners too , AND YET who do they point too . DO they accuse , OR is it just because they truly do have a real genuine FEAR for those in SIN . But spiritual leaders , WILL for sure and for certain LAY DOWN GROUND RULES . But this age don't like that word very much . BUT THOSE RULES , BELONGED TO JESUS FIRST and THEN THE APOSTELS . Folks don't like BEING TOLD what to do , ME THINKS THEY Don't like beingreminded about all that is coming and even now is , THEY had rather just sit in a artificial peace land and put big DO NOT DISTURB my false security name tags on . Well , if they think that's gonna change old frienduff and have me try and change my approach to suit their name tag, OH DEAR They got another thing coming . FOR by grace I have been a doing the same thing for years and I got no plans to work outside THE GRACE OF GOD and pander to men . YOU LOVED SISTER . I KNOW YOU DONT EITHER . SO HANDS UP and PRAISE THE LORD .
It's not anything to do with you frienduff.....we're talking about Jesus here. And addressing two issues in particular....whether His character and approach is to "demand" obedience from us and whether His kingship and authority is the same as the world's. No one is saying that we shouldn't be obedient and nor am I saying that Christ has no authority.....God forbid. No I don't believe you can explain spiritual things with carnal logic.....Jesus didn't. Iv'e done my best here and am just out of things to say on this for now, unless the Lord gives me more. Oh okay, maybe one little thing more.......is our obedience a checklist of do's and don'ts out of fear of punishment (old way of the letter....ministry of death).....or is it based on better things like love and for His sake, because He is worthy, for the sake of righteousness and His kingdom etc (new way of the spirit....life). As a man thinks so is he....if we think Jesus demands obedience and is standing over us threatening to beat us on the head with an iron pole for disobeying then it might be we are missing the point and not serving Him as we should...which is faith working through love...and without faith it is impossible to please Him. And this is the beauty of it . you know how dire serious I am right . YET I GOT ALL JOY IN THE LORD . From every dire warning FROM GOD to every promise its all because HE desires us not to perish . ON that note , HANDS UP AND REJOICE IN THE LORD and IN THE LORD REJOICE .
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Post by John on Sept 25, 2019 18:54:51 GMT -5
They are spiritually discerned . But after spiritually discerning them I can then by the same spirit explain it as well . Sister no one is saying you are false at all . Maybe this will make it easier to explain . What difference do you see between fleshly and spiritual leadership. Because in truth they can appear the same and yet are not . I guess an example would help . SO here goes . JUST because I am huge on warning , exhorting and ensuring that folks obey Christ , keep HIS sayings and the pattern of the apostels , who rebuked and had unrepentant ones cast out , DONT Mean I am doing this BY the FLESH . ITS BY THE SPIRIT I warn . Its easy to see the difference , even with those who profess a false humility . THE difference between FLESHLY leadership or SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP is .............WHO IS GETTING EXALTED . EXACTLY . Is it the man OR GOD ALONE . ITS easy to discern one who follows CHRIST and does by the SPIRIT . OH they gonna be dog serious against sin and error , BUT THEY WONT BE pointing to exergis or hermes or anything , BUT JESUS . THAT IS THE KEY and that is the SECRETE . WHO are we pointing too when we DO as we DO . Do I often sound grave and serious , YEP , but always I say READ ONLY BIBLES , OBEY JESUS , FOLLOW HIM , HEED THE SPIRIT DO I warn against any errors , YES , but who am I pointing too . JESUS . I say IF WE WOULD WALK in the SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . YET most folks attack and say , SO you don't sin EHHHH . YET I did not say , IF I JUST WALK , to WALK , I SAID if we would FOLLOW JESUS , THE SPIRIT we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . SPIRITUAL is way different than fleshly , THOUGH they can appear quite the same at times . I mean fleshly can be waners too , AND YET who do they point too . DO they accuse , OR is it just because they truly do have a real genuine FEAR for those in SIN . But spiritual leaders , WILL for sure and for certain LAY DOWN GROUND RULES . But this age don't like that word very much . BUT THOSE RULES , BELONGED TO JESUS FIRST and THEN THE APOSTELS . Folks don't like BEING TOLD what to do , ME THINKS THEY Don't like beingreminded about all that is coming and even now is , THEY had rather just sit in a artificial peace land and put big DO NOT DISTURB my false security name tags on . Well , if they think that's gonna change old frienduff and have me try and change my approach to suit their name tag, OH DEAR They got another thing coming . FOR by grace I have been a doing the same thing for years and I got no plans to work outside THE GRACE OF GOD and pander to men . YOU LOVED SISTER . I KNOW YOU DONT EITHER . SO HANDS UP and PRAISE THE LORD .
It's not anything to do with you frienduff.....we're talking about Jesus here. And addressing two issues in particular....whether His character and approach is to "demand" obedience from us and whether His kingship and authority is the same as the world's. No one is saying that we shouldn't be obedient and nor am I saying that Christ has no authority.....God forbid. No I don't believe you can explain spiritual things with carnal logic.....Jesus didn't. Iv'e done my best here and am just out of things to say on this for now, unless the Lord gives me more. Oh okay, maybe one little thing more.......is our obedience a checklist of do's and don'ts out of fear of punishment (old way of the letter....ministry of death).....or is it based on better things like love and for His sake, because He is worthy, for the sake of righteousness and His kingdom etc (new way of the spirit....life). As a man thinks so is he....if we think Jesus demands obedience and is standing over us threatening to beat us on the head with an iron pole for disobeying then it might be we are missing the point and not serving Him as we should...which is faith working through love...and without faith it is impossible to please Him. All we have to do is look to the Bible. I just gave an example from Revelation 2:20-23 where Jesus said that if a false prophetess in the church in Thyatira didn't repent, he would kill her children. That was Jesus speaking. That sounds like threatening to do worse than beat someone over the head with an iron pole. I have lots of scripture to back up my side of this argument. Your arguments are based on feelings, not facts.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 19:24:03 GMT -5
It's not anything to do with you frienduff.....we're talking about Jesus here. And addressing two issues in particular....whether His character and approach is to "demand" obedience from us and whether His kingship and authority is the same as the world's. No one is saying that we shouldn't be obedient and nor am I saying that Christ has no authority.....God forbid. No I don't believe you can explain spiritual things with carnal logic.....Jesus didn't. Iv'e done my best here and am just out of things to say on this for now, unless the Lord gives me more. Oh okay, maybe one little thing more.......is our obedience a checklist of do's and don'ts out of fear of punishment (old way of the letter....ministry of death).....or is it based on better things like love and for His sake, because He is worthy, for the sake of righteousness and His kingdom etc (new way of the spirit....life). As a man thinks so is he....if we think Jesus demands obedience and is standing over us threatening to beat us on the head with an iron pole for disobeying then it might be we are missing the point and not serving Him as we should...which is faith working through love...and without faith it is impossible to please Him. All we have to do is look to the Bible. I just gave an example from Revelation 2:20-23 where Jesus said that if a false prophetess in the church in Thyatira didn't repent, he would kill her children. That was Jesus speaking. That sounds like threatening to do worse than beat someone over the head with an iron pole. I have lots of scripture to back up my side of this argument. Your arguments are based on feelings, not facts. All due respect brother....but you don't understand my arguments so it's hard to say what they're based on. Well, I'm finished with this thread, have a good night.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 25, 2019 21:51:31 GMT -5
Sister watchful , I don't care what the pope and his sold out protestant leaders say about you . I LOVES YA SISTER . GET SOME REST . I think folks are shooting past one another on some things . Just get some rest sister . Let us always point to JESUS . AND on that note , butero , watchful and all , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD >
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2019 8:47:51 GMT -5
Sister watchful , I don't care what the pope and his sold out protestant leaders say about you . I LOVES YA SISTER . GET SOME REST . I think folks are shooting past one another on some things . Just get some rest sister . Let us always point to JESUS . AND on that note , butero , watchful and all , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD > Oh yes, for sure we are talking past each other.....one is talking apples and the other is talking oranges. If the word of God abides forever and never passes away, I would like to know how we can possibly take a carnal view and read it as talking about temporal things. For example that false prophetess and her children long ago passed away, 2000 years ago....so how can we read that verse literally today, since it is an eternal word? I remember Jesus reproving His disciples for thinking He was talking about bread. And just to add that there is a big difference between threatening and warning in the spirit.....warning in the spirit still leaves a person free to choose, it just helps them to be willing to choose right.....whereas threatening is of the flesh and forces a person against their will to do the will of the one threatening. But I am not sure the carnal mind will be able to perceive the difference with that either.
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Post by John on Sept 26, 2019 8:57:55 GMT -5
Sister watchful , I don't care what the pope and his sold out protestant leaders say about you . I LOVES YA SISTER . GET SOME REST . I think folks are shooting past one another on some things . Just get some rest sister . Let us always point to JESUS . AND on that note , butero , watchful and all , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD > Oh yes, for sure we are talking past each other.....one is talking apples and the other is talking oranges. If the word of God abides forever and never passes away, I would like to know how we can possibly take a carnal view and read it as talking about temporal things. For example that false prophetess and her children long ago passed away, 2000 years ago....so how can we read that verse literally today, since it is an eternal word? I remember Jesus reproving His disciples for thinking He was talking about bread. And just to add that there is a big difference between threatening and warning in the spirit.....warning in the spirit still leaves a person free to choose, it just helps them to be willing to choose right.....whereas threatening is of the flesh and forces a person against their will to do the will of the one threatening. But I am not sure the carnal mind will be able to perceive the difference with that either. I am not sure a spiritual mind asked that question. That was a threat of severe punishment to that false prophetess in a New Testament church. Repent or else. She could choose to be destroyed. She had free will. We have free will to reject Christ and go to hell.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 26, 2019 9:54:05 GMT -5
Why would it be difficult to come up with concrete examples of spiritual leadership? Scripture does in fact show us the difference between bad worldly leadership and good Christian leadership.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. — John 10:11-13
And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots. And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots. And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants. And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day. — 1 Samuel 8:11-18
If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ — 1 Corinthians 9:12
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. — John 13:13-15
Trying to zero in on the issue of “control” is rather missing the bigger point.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 26, 2019 10:27:10 GMT -5
Basically it all comes down to one idea: leaders who exploit you for their own gain while not making sure you’re taken care of. In a worldly system, all the labor/wealth/gain is taken from the peasants and sucked upward to benefit the top. Worldly leaders are parasites who take whatever they can and give back as little as they can get by with. All of their control revolves around keeping the peasants in line. They use abusive control mechanisms to keep the peasants from revolting.
Controlling people through fake news and social media addiction is just as bad as controlling them by gunpoint. Scripture says the natural condition of man is to be a slave of sin — dominated and controlled by it. Rarely through brute force. Usually through peer pressure, corporate propaganda, keeping with the Joneses, and things of this nature. Because these control devices seem to offer temporary pleasure, they don’t feel like control.
We are in fact told to submit ourselves entirely to the Holy Spirit so He may control our bodies. Our bodies are His temples for His pleasure and His purpose. The closer we are to God, the more we will be overtaken by Him.
The fact is we will all be controlled by something. We are created to be vessels. We can be a vessel of the world or a vessel of God, but one thing we can’t be is a vessel of ourselves. Church shepherds should certainly not try to turn us into vessels of their own agenda... but they should work to hammer us out into vessels of Christ.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 26, 2019 10:48:42 GMT -5
You all know by now that I stand against the pecking order in the mainstream church. That’s why Giller started this thread. The mainstream system wants to conform you into a perpetual baby easily entertained by programs and study groups. Their number one goal is to turn you into a program attender, with the goal of discipleship a distant second. They would rather have baby Christians attending their programs than to have mature Christians who protest the programs. When push comes to shove, the programs come first. And yes, there is a deliberate effort to conform you into being a product of the system.
None of this means it will ever work to be a vigilante or a loose cannon. None of this means we can opt out of being overseen by shepherds and parental figures. i’ve taken heat here in the past for saying the loose cannon thing is unbiblical.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 26, 2019 11:24:21 GMT -5
It’s worth noting that great leaders of the Bible modeled the good shepherd. They were far from hirelings.
And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin―; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. — Exodus 32:31-32
And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life. — Judges 16:30
And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O Lord my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued. — 1 Chronicles 21:17
This behavior was expected of all whom God appointed to lead His people.
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