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Post by John on Sept 26, 2019 13:35:09 GMT -5
True, but they have an obligation to stand firm against false doctrine when they see it. If that is not the case, they may as well accept seeker friendly false teaching. It is no more damaging than rebellion.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 26, 2019 13:35:37 GMT -5
Sister watchful , I don't care what the pope and his sold out protestant leaders say about you . I LOVES YA SISTER . GET SOME REST . I think folks are shooting past one another on some things . Just get some rest sister . Let us always point to JESUS . AND on that note , butero , watchful and all , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD > Oh yes, for sure we are talking past each other.....one is talking apples and the other is talking oranges. If the word of God abides forever and never passes away, I would like to know how we can possibly take a carnal view and read it as talking about temporal things. For example that false prophetess and her children long ago passed away, 2000 years ago....so how can we read that verse literally today, since it is an eternal word? I remember Jesus reproving His disciples for thinking He was talking about bread. And just to add that there is a big difference between threatening and warning in the spirit.....warning in the spirit still leaves a person free to choose, it just helps them to be willing to choose right.....whereas threatening is of the flesh and forces a person against their will to do the will of the one threatening. But I am not sure the carnal mind will be able to perceive the difference with that either. I know what you mean about threats though . the way Kenny and benny and folks use threats to get tithes or etc , YEAH THAT IS ALL A DEAD END DEATH TRAP . IF by threats you mean like those belialers do .
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Post by frienduff on Sept 26, 2019 13:39:54 GMT -5
True, but they have an obligation to stand firm against false doctrine when they see it. If that is not the case, they may as well accept seeker friendly false teaching. It is no more damaging than rebellion.
I will see that truth and raise you one on it . NOT ONLY do they have an obligation to stand firm against false sound doctrine . IF THEY DONT , GOD GONNA COME AGAINST THEM TOO . OH YES , read revelation . I aint changing for no man . ME NO SEEKER FRIENDLY , I shall warn by grace and encourage by grace . And all the tatics and schemes of men , I will flush down the commode where they belong . I told us all , and I for surely meant it , I GOTTA GO OUT the way I GOTTA GO OUT . And conforming to mens ideals , YEAH THAT AINT IT . BY grace I have long known what this is going to cost me and others who remain the solid , pure and holy path of RIGHTEOUSNESS in JESUS . And we better armour up and say as did paul , I KNOW afflictions abide me , YET I AM NOT MOVED one ounce of course . WE ON A STEAM ROLLING LOCOMATIVE END TIME HEAD ON CRASH WITH THE TOTAL BETRYAL TRAIN COMING RIGHT AT US ALL . LET NO MAN have any fear , TO LIVE IS CHRIST , TO DIE IS GAIN . HANDS UP , HANDS UP AND PRAISE THE LORD . HE will be our strength and without HIM can we do nothing , BUT IN CHRIST all things are POSSIBLE TO HE OR TO SHE WHO DOES BELEIVE .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 26, 2019 13:42:12 GMT -5
Tithing is a perfect example of this. Using an ostensibly true Bible teaching to intimidate people into giving you money. It’s easy for us to say, well those lambs should’ve had enough discernment to know better, but lambs are under orders to learn from experienced teachers. We can’t tell lambs to obey church authority and then say it’s their problem when the pastor teaches them something hurtful.
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Post by John on Sept 26, 2019 13:48:51 GMT -5
Tithing is a perfect example of this. Using an ostensibly true Bible teaching to intimidate people into giving you money. It’s easy for us to say, well those lambs should’ve had enough discernment to know better, but lambs are under orders to learn from experienced teachers. We can’t tell lambs to obey church authority and then say it’s their problem when the pastor teaches them something hurtful. This is one of those topics where a lot of issues have to be worked through. When it comes to things like tithing, I never believed we had to give 10 percent to one church to obey God, but when I was in a denomination that required it, I did it and as Pastor enforced it, because we agreed to it. We weren't obeying because of convictions on tithing but because of convictions about obeying those with the rule over us.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Sept 26, 2019 13:54:57 GMT -5
If I joined a church that expected tithes, I would do it out of respect. I wouldn’t pretend to join just so I can go around preaching against their statement of faith. But again, in our modern culture, people do that all the time under the so-called spiritual cover of evangelism.
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Cletus
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Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Sept 26, 2019 17:50:05 GMT -5
just wondering here... the push to draw so many into church... is this apart of the system also? Jesus went out to them... but are we told to bring them to church or to compel them to come to the supper?
am i straining at a gnat here? i kinda think i am not. aND how effctive is this approach, i mean... so many are leaving churches and church attendance is on the decline. statistics show it and my pastor is head of the minesterial alliance where pastors and elders meet every so often and discuss ministry things. churches are declining.
the church i go to now uses very little of the common system, i see so much parallel to scripture on how things are done. and the Power of the Spirit is rich. Many are spoken thru nearly every sunday. even me. when we honor His order its awe inspiring How he moves
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Post by John on Sept 26, 2019 18:04:49 GMT -5
just wondering here... the push to draw so many into church... is this apart of the system also? Jesus went out to them... but are we told to bring them to church or to compel them to come to the supper? am i straining at a gnat here? i kinda think i am not. aND how effctive is this approach, i mean... so many are leaving churches and church attendance is on the decline. statistics show it and my pastor is head of the minesterial alliance where pastors and elders meet every so often and discuss ministry things. churches are declining. the church i go to now uses very little of the common system, i see so much parallel to scripture on how things are done. and the Power of the Spirit is rich. Many are spoken thru nearly every sunday. even me. when we honor His order its awe inspiring How he moves I personally believe that the closer we get to following God's order, the more we will be blessed. I have never thought about how people were invited to join local churches. I assumed from reading the Bible that the Apostles would go out and preach outdoors to people that had never heard the gospel. When people accepted Jesus, they seemed to just automatically join themselves with the other Christians in that area and they formed a church. That is what it looks like to me.
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777
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Post by 777 on Sept 26, 2019 20:47:08 GMT -5
Sister watchful , I don't care what the pope and his sold out protestant leaders say about you . I LOVES YA SISTER . GET SOME REST . I think folks are shooting past one another on some things . Just get some rest sister . Let us always point to JESUS . AND on that note , butero , watchful and all , ITS TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD > Oh yes, for sure we are talking past each other.....one is talking apples and the other is talking oranges. If the word of God abides forever and never passes away, I would like to know how we can possibly take a carnal view and read it as talking about temporal things. For example that false prophetess and her children long ago passed away, 2000 years ago....so how can we read that verse literally today, since it is an eternal word? I remember Jesus reproving His disciples for thinking He was talking about bread. And just to add that there is a big difference between threatening and warning in the spirit.....warning in the spirit still leaves a person free to choose, it just helps them to be willing to choose right.....whereas threatening is of the flesh and forces a person against their will to do the will of the one threatening. But I am not sure the carnal mind will be able to perceive the difference with that either. This doesn't make any sense to me. It was still something that Jesus was doing after the cross, meaning under the New Covenant. It happening 2000 years ago doesn't matter. Of course it must be taken literal.
What is the big difference in threatening and warning in the spirit except for terminology? If I threaten to do this if you do that, or I warn you in the spirit I will do this if you do that, you are still free to choose in either case. You can choose life or death. Carnal mind? What you said doesn't make any sense.
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Post by Giller on Sept 27, 2019 0:40:38 GMT -5
If I joined a church that expected tithes, I would do it out of respect. I wouldn’t pretend to join just so I can go around preaching against their statement of faith. But again, in our modern culture, people do that all the time under the so-called spiritual cover of evangelism. When we were part of some of what is called church, in denominational circles, we would give, and never sought to gather at an assembly just so to speak against things, we sought to be a part of an assembly and in some we would even clean the building, but when we had to stand on the word we had to stand, no compromise, the word of God is the higher authority. God does not go against himself. And we would first check the statement of faith, to make sure it was good, and most of them, statement of faith wise, were fine, just as things progressed, eventually things did not go so well, we started seeing things, and in some cases what was truly happening. And of course some things depending on situation, you could set aside to whatever degree, but some things you cannot.
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Post by Giller on Sept 27, 2019 1:24:07 GMT -5
Each person has to obey God, in their own calling, and in what God says concerning this or that, we need to stand firm on God's word, and yes God gives us leaders, but we have to be careful not to worship our leaders, for this is happening in very high rate.
There is either the spirit of rebellion to were some may say, we do not need leadership in the church, but also there is the spirit of idolizing our pastors, to were you obey whatever they say, no matter what, regardless if it is contrary to the word or not.
I find many times people put the pastors as higher authorities than the bible.
The bible on one hand says this:
1Pe 5:5 (5) Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
Yes we ought to submit ourselves unto the elder, being full of humility, but also it says to be subject one to another as well.
It says God resisteth the proud, no matter who the proud are, whether it be proud members, or proud pastors.
And here is another scripture:
Eph 5:21 (21) Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
There are many ways of submitting ourselves one to another.
By being sensitive to each others' needs, by being sensitive of how God wants to use such and such a person, for all have gifts of some sort, and God wants to use the whole body of Christ, he wants to use the body of Christ in the gifts of the Spirit, and the leadership must be sensitive in this way, or else they are not being good leaders.
We must have great respect towards our leaders, but also have respect one toward another.
A lot of pastors love the part that says submit to the elders, but I seldom hear preachers mention how we ought to submit ourselves one to another.
Humility seeks not her own way, it seeks the good of others, and no, of course not all are called to feed the flock, only some are, but in saying this, that does not mean that the rest of the body of Christ cannot be used in any, way, shape or form, for some are called to lead in worship, some play guitars, some play the piano, and so on.
Now of course all things must be done decently and in order, and people must be sensitive to the Holy Spirit.
The assembly is not a one man show to were the pastor has control over every single part of the service at all times, now yes you respect him, and he will allow or disallow such and such, and you do not seek to overthrow his authority, but also he must be sensitive to what the holy Spirit is seeking to do, through brother or sister such and such, otherwise it really is not a body ministry.
A body cannot grow unless it works as a body, it really can't.
And if in most cases, through say the leadership, they do not allow the body to be used of God, and the atmosphere becomes oppressive, than i do not want to be a part of that type of atmosphere, or be part of that assembly.
Now I realize no leader is perfect, we all make mistakes, sometimes they may not realize this or that, that is perfectly understandable, but when it becomes oppressive, and remains that way, man that is not good.
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Post by Giller on Sept 27, 2019 1:35:16 GMT -5
But I thank God I am out of the system, and I am never going back.
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Post by frienduff on Sept 27, 2019 6:53:17 GMT -5
just wondering here... the push to draw so many into church... is this apart of the system also? Jesus went out to them... but are we told to bring them to church or to compel them to come to the supper? am i straining at a gnat here? i kinda think i am not. aND how effctive is this approach, i mean... so many are leaving churches and church attendance is on the decline. statistics show it and my pastor is head of the minesterial alliance where pastors and elders meet every so often and discuss ministry things. churches are declining. the church i go to now uses very little of the common system, i see so much parallel to scripture on how things are done. and the Power of the Spirit is rich. Many are spoken thru nearly every sunday. even me. when we honor His order its awe inspiring How he moves Many are now under the guise of this last end time move . SO they will use certain scriptures to ensure their houses are full . The thing is , while its known we should gather , its also known we don't just gather to gather , we don't sit in houses of deceit nor under those who teach it . Gather where the elders , leaders are teaching ONLY the pure pattern and truth the early ones first taught . Unity for unity sake is death UNITY IN JESUS is LIFE . Now hands up Cletus . ANd let all praise the LORD .
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Post by Giller on Sept 27, 2019 10:09:12 GMT -5
And God never created this denominational church system, which is tied to the government.
And here is something my Scottish pastor would say, that if he were to preach another gospel let him be anathema, and mark him.
Paul said this:
Gal 1:8 (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Paul as an apostle had a certain form of authority given to him by God, but the word of God was the greater authority.
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Post by John on Sept 27, 2019 10:18:11 GMT -5
And God never created this denominational church system, which is tied to the government. And here is something my Scottish pastor would say, that if he were to preach another gospel let him be anathema, and mark him. Paul said this: Gal 1:8 (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Paul as an apostle had a certain form of authority given to him by God, but the word of God was the greater authority. I don't believe God wants the church tied to the government, but I don't think church leaders are meaning to do wrong in accepting state recognition. It is just all they know. They fell into a trap. They saw it as necessary for legitimacy and for tax breaks.
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