PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 1, 2019 12:26:25 GMT -5
This continues our discussion on the thread yesterday. The cool music seeker-friendly model thrust upon the church to supposedly attract young seekers is despised and rejected by young seekers.
Professional research discussed in this podcast confirms that only a tiny minority of young people think church isn’t cool enough. When asked why they don’t attend, that excuse is nowhere near the top. To the contrary, young people are avoiding church because they think it has little to do with worshiping God. The number one reason wasn’t even that they don’t believe in God; the number one reason is that they‘re looking for God and can’t find Him there.
The time is long past for us to believe the seeker-friendly model is about popularity. They have this data, and they refuse to change. We must accept that these people are on a mission to bankrupt the church.
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Post by Giller on Oct 1, 2019 13:37:12 GMT -5
Hmmm interesting data.
How many people were polled in this data?
Was it only among believers or all kinds of millennials?
Well I do praise God for the ones who are genuinely seeking the Lord.
But I also know because of the people I know, that some people really do like a social gospel, though it seems to be mostly people who have been in church circles for a while, though.
But anyhow, we do know that the bible says it will get worse and worse, and people will harden their hearts towards God and his ways.
There are many who will acknowledge God, but do not want his ways.
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Post by Giller on Oct 1, 2019 13:38:24 GMT -5
Although in truth, in what is called church, most of those ways are not his ways anyways.
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2019 7:04:23 GMT -5
Hmmm interesting data. How many people were polled in this data? Was it only among believers or all kinds of millennials? Well I do praise God for the ones who are genuinely seeking the Lord. But I also know because of the people I know, that some people really do like a social gospel, though it seems to be mostly people who have been in church circles for a while, though. But anyhow, we do know that the bible says it will get worse and worse, and people will harden their hearts towards God and his ways. There are many who will acknowledge God, but do not want his ways. The poll was done by Barna, so I feel pretty confident that it is accurate. They did say 8 percent did want church to be more up to date, so you likely will encounter some that like the seeker friendly model. That is 8 out of 100, but it wasn't the main reason millennials quit going to church. I believe them when it says 39 percent say they can find God elsewhere.
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2019 7:13:29 GMT -5
I will tell you that I stopped going to church because God wasn't there, not because I could find Him elsewhere. God is everywhere. He is here in my truck. In order to justify the seeker friendly, casual and cross dress mess as well as having doughnuts and coffee and even beer in the sanctuary in some churches, they had to downplay the building. It was no longer special or holy. It could be a Moose Lodge. The church was the people. Once you have drilled that into the people long enough, why be surprised when they don't see the need to attend a building?
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2019 7:29:03 GMT -5
This may seem strange to some, but when I log in here at Narrow Way, I feel like I am entering a church, a Holy place. It is not like a 24 hour service. Those take place on Wednesday and Thursday night, but it is God's house, and as people come and go, it is like having brothers and sisters and visitors drop by. It is continuous fellowship, and it more real to me than any physical church I have attended since the mid 80s. I think local meetings have value, but only when they are real. If all I want is to be entertained with lights, fog and loud music, I don't need a church for that.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 2, 2019 7:37:52 GMT -5
When you look at the two men in the podcast, what do you see? Bright, affluent millennials complaining about the loud music and the uninspired preaching. They ended the video by calling on the church to cry out for God’s presence. They also said exactly what we’ve been saying here — “four songs and a sermon once a week” does not an ekklesia make.
These guys are striving for a Christian body that gets into God’s presence and then disciples for Him daily. You can certainly hear the establishment in them, but they have real complaints.
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2019 7:48:19 GMT -5
I attended two churches for a period of time as a visitor, one a Bible Methodist Church and one an Independent Baptist Church. Both were conservative. I never felt God's presence at either place. I was going because everyone made me feel like I should go somewhere. The Bible Methodist was somewhere I could go where they still preached truth, but I don't need church for that. I have a Bible. I have felt God here in a more real way than in any church building. I feel His presence all the time in our prayer meeting.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 2, 2019 8:21:58 GMT -5
John you said something super important that this video also touched on. Any Christian who is motivated to learn can learn outside the system. You can get the Bible for free on your phone. You can access 2,000 years worth of teaching on the internet. Why should I give an hour of my time to a lazy preacher when I could be listening to John Bunyan or Watchman Nee? Why should I sit through four songs of monotonous, unimaginative U2 wannabe rock music when Keith Green, Sandy Patti, and other legends are one YouTube click away?
What’s a local gathering good for? Actual group worship in God’s presence, daily exhortation, accountability, and role models. Those are precisely what the system doesn’t provide.
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Post by frienduff on Oct 2, 2019 8:31:25 GMT -5
When you look at the two men in the podcast, what do you see? Bright, affluent millennials complaining about the loud music and the uninspired preaching. They ended the video by calling on the church to cry out for God’s presence. They also said exactly what we’ve been saying here — “four songs and a sermon once a week” does not an ekklesia make. These guys are striving for a Christian body that gets into God’s presence and then disciples for Him daily. You can certainly hear the establishment in them, but they have real complaints. Yes , you can still certainly heart the establishment in them , but they have genuine complaints .
For the real answer , all we need to do is exactly what JESUS said to do . SIMPLY GO ye and preach the gospel . Simply exhort the church by the spirit and sound doctrine . Simply understand that in no way should we try and ponder or pander HOW to reach , rather Just speak truth and remember what JESUS said . Rememeber what JOHN said too and paul . And they knew something real simple and clear . Those who hear us are of GOD those who do not are not . The early church never went out and tried to find out HOW to get anyone into church . That is all man means and it will fail every time . They simply preached JESUS , warned of judgment , spoke of righteousness and pointed to JESUS . Has anyone ever heard the phrase of what defines insanity , its doing the same thing over and over , expecting a different result . So even while the barna study and these guys might be exposing the wicked , they in essence do the same thing . How so , they trying to figure out HOW to get folks into church by talking to the lost and reasoning with the lost of what could get them in church . ALL we need do , and its simple , All we need to do , is do as JESUS said , GO Ye and proclaim the gospel to all nations , baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son and Holy Ghost , and TEACHING them to observe all things HE SAID . THIS is exactly what pual , james and others did . PONDER that . they spoke of coming judgment , JUST LIKE JESUS DID they pointed to JESUS as savoir , JUST AS JESUS DID , and they exhorted the church ON ALL of his teachings daily , JUST LIKE JESUS DID . ITS THAT SIMPLE . THAT is the solution and its the answer . JESUS is all we need . HE never pandered , if folks rejected him , HE said they the blind leading the blind , leave them be every plant which my Father has not planted WILL be rooted up . HE said those who hear shall be saved and those who don't shall be damned . HE said those who reject you , shake the dust off your feet , if they don't hear you , they don't hear me , if they don't hear me they don't hear HIM who sent me . All we need to do is simply SPEAK TRUTH and let the cards fall where they do . its truly that simple . ANd keep His pattern in all things . The pattern for edfication and correction , the pattern for all things HE did teach and say . ITS REALLY just that simple .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 2, 2019 8:36:53 GMT -5
Hmmm interesting data. How many people were polled in this data? Was it only among believers or all kinds of millennials? Well I do praise God for the ones who are genuinely seeking the Lord. But I also know because of the people I know, that some people really do like a social gospel, though it seems to be mostly people who have been in church circles for a while, though. But anyhow, we do know that the bible says it will get worse and worse, and people will harden their hearts towards God and his ways. There are many who will acknowledge God, but do not want his ways. The poll was done by Barna, so I feel pretty confident that it is accurate. They did say 8 percent did want church to be more up to date, so you likely will encounter some that like the seeker friendly model. That is 8 out of 100, but it wasn't the main reason millennials quit going to church. I believe them when it says 39 percent say they can find God elsewhere.
Barna forgot to ask the most essential question . I would have asked the thirty nine , OKAY WHERE DO YOU FIND GOD , is in in new age , is it in etc Because I am telling us , that most folks who think they found GOD , have not . This generation is big on finding GOD everywhere , BUT THE BIBLE . And that spells DISASTER . They follow anything and think oh its GOD .
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Post by frienduff on Oct 2, 2019 8:46:02 GMT -5
I attended two churches for a period of time as a visitor, one a Bible Methodist Church and one an Independent Baptist Church. Both were conservative. I never felt God's presence at either place. I was going because everyone made me feel like I should go somewhere. The Bible Methodist was somewhere I could go where they still preached truth, but I don't need church for that. I have a Bible. I have felt God here in a more real way than in any church building. I feel His presence all the time in our prayer meeting.
This place is the next best thing to actually meeting n person . But I tell and remind us all , that the best worship is in person . I mean even instead of typing our prayers , WE could be as one on our knees , praying it directly to GOD in person and communicating in person . There is a need for local gatherings . ITS JUST don't gather with what is false to just have a gathering . Instead have unity and fellowship with those WHO CALL upon the LORD in SPIRIT and in TRUTH , who actually LOVE JESUS IN SINCERITY . Out of all three ways to meet , IN PERSON will always be best , followed second by phone or live chat then followed third by what we do here . What we do here is GOOD and we do with what we have , FOR NOW . But the best will always be in person. If you think about it , Look how well and good it was that pual wrote those letters for the Church , EVEN THOUGH he was not present . But also look what he says , about coming to them in person that he might PERFECT that which is lacking IN THIER FAITH . in person is always the best . But the other two methods are good as well .
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 2, 2019 8:57:18 GMT -5
I fellowship with other Spirit-filled people as often as I can in as many ways as I can. Home visits, phone calls, you name it. In person is definitely best. Phone is second place. This is third place. I still want to move our prayer nights to Skype when we have more people willing/able to do it.
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Post by John on Oct 2, 2019 9:15:11 GMT -5
I fellowship with other Spirit-filled people as often as I can in as many ways as I can. Home visits, phone calls, you name it. In person is definitely best. Phone is second place. This is third place. I still want to move our prayer nights to Skype when we have more people willing/able to do it. I think Skype is a good way to go, and gives a more in person feel to the meeting, but I feel like I would place what we do here ahead of a phone call. More people can be involved at the same time and say precisely what they mean in writing. I like the idea of live prayer meetings in Skype.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on Oct 2, 2019 9:22:33 GMT -5
I fellowship with other Spirit-filled people as often as I can in as many ways as I can. Home visits, phone calls, you name it. In person is definitely best. Phone is second place. This is third place. I still want to move our prayer nights to Skype when we have more people willing/able to do it. I think Skype is a good way to go, and gives a more in person feel to the meeting, but I feel like I would place what we do here ahead of a phone call. More people can be involved at the same time and say precisely what they mean in writing. I like the idea of live prayer meetings in Skype.
Honestly brother, after many, many hours of experience in both, I have to agree with Frienduff that phone study/prayer is better than online. I’ve seen the Lord speak prophecy in phone prayer meetings. If the goal is to talk about doctrine, forums are great. If the goal is to lay hands on someone and seek a word from the Lord, a personal connection at least through voice is essential.
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