|
Post by John on Oct 17, 2019 10:01:24 GMT -5
King David got his words and tune from God, and I think that is the example we are to follow. He did not seek the world for any of it. I completely understand what you are saying. There is an anointing behind God-given music, and the secular songs lack that anointing. What you are getting on "Christian radio" is positive entertainment. That is all, and they take advantage of Christians and make them feel like they need to support their material because when the same songs or type of songs are done by secular artists, they are of the devil, but when they sing virtually the same songs but Christianize them, and sometimes they are the exact same songs, they are sanctified.
Don't get me wrong. There are some people out there that I believe are sincere. I believe Brian Free is sincere. I have heard his testimony of getting saved, but he admits he wasn't saved early on while singing southern gospel music. He is one of my favorites to listen to. I also like the McKameys and believe they are for real. I would say the same thing for the original Hinsons and the Whisnants. There are sincere Christians singing gospel music, but they are part of an industry that is about money, and many of their fellow artists are completely secular. The late J.D. Sumner came out and said he was a secular gospel singer. He would even sing Elvis songs and mix them in at his concerts, and churches invited him to sing in their services. He would be happy to do that if you paid him his price. One Pastor asked him if he would come for an offering. J.D. said that of course he would, but here is what he needed to do. Take up an offering, and then another, and then another, and when they had taken enough, he would come. Those were his own words.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Oct 17, 2019 10:12:03 GMT -5
I personally do not believe in this Christianising stuff, God never once says to sanctify worldly things.
But i do believe like you that some people are sincere.
|
|
|
Post by John on Oct 17, 2019 10:41:30 GMT -5
What it boils down to Giller, is that just as the church needs to be reformed, so does gospel music. People like Bill Gaither have come along, and they have increased the popularity of gospel music, but they have compromised in doing so. I saw Bill Gaither promoting a secular album by the Statler Brothers and the Gatlin Brothers, and I am not too certain he didn't do the same thing with the Oak Ridge Boys. Some of that music can't even be called positive.
If someone really wants to change this, it is going to take diligence on the part of those involved in music ministry. If you are a gospel singer, stop worrying about charts and marketing and looking like the world to fit in, and be a minister in song. Make sure all the lyrics are Biblical. If you have song writing abilities, make sure the words to your songs are Biblical. If you are running a Christian station, take the time to listen to the lyrics of every new song on every new cd before you play them. Stop programming by charts. You can see what is popular on the chart, but don't play songs that are not good just because they make it on a chart. If you are a ministry, be a ministry, but if you are just about money and entertainment, stop playing like you are doing all of this for Jesus.
Like I said, if I was going to do another gospel station for ministry, I would do it different than I did in the past. I am not as bothered by the occasional song that someone got from secular and made it Christian, at least on the radio. In church as part of worship, that is another story, but I am very concerned about purely secular songs being played on gospel radio stations and I am even more bothered by false messages in songs. I would keep those things off the air. I wouldn't leave good singers off the playlist because they don't chart and include singers that do chart when they are singing songs that aren't Biblical or when the artists are clearly bad people. There is one guy that is a great singer/songwriter that was involved in a homosexual scandal, and didn't repent as far as I know. I have some of his music from before he was discovered. I wouldn't play any of his solo stuff today, but sadly, he was part of groups that didn't know he was that way and he wrote songs that are sung by those sincere people. The songs are fine. It was just the writer. Each person that makes programming decisions will have a difference of opinion about where to draw the line. My biggest concern is lyrics and making sure we aren't programming secular songs with secular words. I have turned the station off because of those two things. I turned off Joy FM when they played "Back Home Again." It is not because it is a devil song or anything like that. It is not gospel, and I don't tune to gospel radio to hear secular songs. I am kind of getting off a bit here on a rabbit trail, but the main thing is, we need to reform Christian music.
|
|
|
Post by John on Oct 17, 2019 10:59:26 GMT -5
Giller, thank you for this thread. It has really got me thinking about how far off we have gotten when it comes to Christian music. I have become very cynical to the point of just figuring it is time to just abandon gospel music and promoting it, but that is not the right way to go. Why turn this all over to the devil? It need reforming. If we can reform the church, we can reform gospel music by simply refusing to go along with the compromise. It won't be easy, and just like a church that is truly founded on the Bible won't become a mega-church, neither will stations that refuse to compromise have mass appeal, but we need to do the right thing. I need to really seek the Lord further about this, but I thank you for bringing this subject to our attention, and giving us serious food for thought.
|
|
|
Post by Apostle's Instructions on Oct 17, 2019 11:14:09 GMT -5
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
2 Corinthians 6:15-18
|
|
|
Post by Apostle's Instructions on Oct 17, 2019 11:29:41 GMT -5
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 5:18-20
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Oct 17, 2019 12:06:37 GMT -5
Here is a hymn I found that seems to be a part of a reformed hymn book, it is called "Irresistable Grace".
("Irresistable Grace"
I sought You, Lord, but now I see You were the one who was seeking me; I found You, Lord, and then I knew That I was found by You.
Chorus:
You have called me with irresistible grace From before time began. Thank You, Lord, for saving me; On Your grace now I can stand.
I took Your hand when I was weak: Sinking, yet always within Your reach. My feet were firm though on the sea For You took hold of me.
I sought, I walked, because Your grace Long before had fixed my place; And now I love- how can it be? ‘Twas You who first loved me.")
God's grace can be resisted, and I truly feel this is a song that points to once saved always saved doctrine, in the way things are said, and from were it comes from.
Now your place is only fixed in Christ, if you remain in him, it is not permanently fixed, if we fall away from Christ.
Gal 5:4 (4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You can fall from grace, and you can resist the truth, which shows that grace can be resisted, so it is not irresistible grace.
There are more that I found, but this example will suffice.
And in my next post I will share a seems to be modern day hymn that a guy made, which is horrid, and it is actually called "once saved always saved".
|
|
|
Post by solid on Oct 17, 2019 12:25:29 GMT -5
Here is a hymn I found that seems to be a part of a reformed hymn book, it is called "Irresistable Grace". ("Irresistable Grace"
I sought You, Lord, but now I see You were the one who was seeking me; I found You, Lord, and then I knew That I was found by You.
Chorus:
You have called me with irresistible grace From before time began. Thank You, Lord, for saving me; On Your grace now I can stand.
I took Your hand when I was weak: Sinking, yet always within Your reach. My feet were firm though on the sea For You took hold of me.
I sought, I walked, because Your grace Long before had fixed my place; And now I love- how can it be? ‘Twas You who first loved me.")
God's grace can be resisted, and I truly feel this is a song that points to once saved always saved doctrine, in the way things are said, and from were it comes from. Now your place is only fixed in Christ, if you remain in him, it is not permanently fixed, if we fall away from Christ. Gal 5:4 (4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. You can fall from grace, and you can resist the truth, which shows that grace can be resisted, so it is not irresistible grace. There are more that I found, but this example will suffice. And in my next post I will share a seems to be modern day hymn that a guy made, which is horrid, and it is actually called " once saved always saved". Do you think that this is to be expected, that the hymn books would be tailor made for the church they are used in?
|
|
|
Post by solid on Oct 17, 2019 12:27:30 GMT -5
I can hardly believe some of the things I have read in this thread.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Oct 17, 2019 12:28:29 GMT -5
Here is the song: ("Once saved always saved"Eternal life, began the day, we trust in him, the only way.We cannot lose it, though we still sin.Cause it's eternal, it can never end.Chorus:Once saved, always saved, sealed unto redemption day.Once we receive, eternal life, we have his promise, we can never die.It was a gift, so undeserved, the right to keep it we can never earn.He won't take from us, what he freely gave.His word of honor, he will never break.Chorus: Once saved, always saved, sealed unto redemption day. Once we receive, eternal life, we have his promise, we can never die.I'm a new creature, I'm born again, though I still struggle, with fleshy sins.I am adopted, I am his son.Regeneration can't be undone.)Now here is the YouTube link to the song:""Once saved always saved".
You can see it is obviously full of OSAS doctrine.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Oct 17, 2019 12:30:16 GMT -5
Here is a hymn I found that seems to be a part of a reformed hymn book, it is called "Irresistable Grace". ("Irresistable Grace"
I sought You, Lord, but now I see You were the one who was seeking me; I found You, Lord, and then I knew That I was found by You.
Chorus:
You have called me with irresistible grace From before time began. Thank You, Lord, for saving me; On Your grace now I can stand.
I took Your hand when I was weak: Sinking, yet always within Your reach. My feet were firm though on the sea For You took hold of me.
I sought, I walked, because Your grace Long before had fixed my place; And now I love- how can it be? ‘Twas You who first loved me.")
God's grace can be resisted, and I truly feel this is a song that points to once saved always saved doctrine, in the way things are said, and from were it comes from. Now your place is only fixed in Christ, if you remain in him, it is not permanently fixed, if we fall away from Christ. Gal 5:4 (4) Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. You can fall from grace, and you can resist the truth, which shows that grace can be resisted, so it is not irresistible grace. There are more that I found, but this example will suffice. And in my next post I will share a seems to be modern day hymn that a guy made, which is horrid, and it is actually called " once saved always saved". Do you think that this is to be expected, that the hymn books would be tailor made for the church they are used in? Of course they would be, but I am just showing that there are errors in some hymns, some even big errors.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Oct 17, 2019 12:47:22 GMT -5
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. — Acts 7:51
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. — Acts 7:54
They were so convicted they felt pain in their hearts, and Stephen said they were resisting. This was not a crowd of cold-hearted disaffected people who felt nothing. He triggered an emotional response from them. I don’t know how you can read that chapter and still think conviction is irresistible.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Oct 17, 2019 12:50:32 GMT -5
Now I have read how sometimes Calvinist preachers and so on, change words of hymns, to suit their doctrine, but this next thing I will quote, has to be a joke:
(https://babylonbee.com/news/calvinist-hymnal-released)
(...U.S.—A coalition of Reformed churches in America announced Friday a revised hymnal, including hundreds of classic hymns that have been newly edited to reflect a more Calvinistic view of God and salvation.... ...The announcement made by elders presiding at the Union confirmed several favorites, including the list below:
-Harshly and Angrily, Jesus Is Coming -Be Thou My Craft Brew -God Has Decided That I Will Follow Him -Stand Up, Stand Up For Jesus, As Long As Your Arms Stay Down -Take My Beard And Let It Be -Fairest John Calvin...)
I truly cannot see this as being true, who would sing a song that goes by fairest John Calvin, although in truth many in Calvinistic circles, do honor him to the point of worship.
|
|
|
Post by Giller on Oct 17, 2019 13:18:42 GMT -5
Well I do thank people for sharing stuff, and you give a lot of info, in what goes on in the southern gospel arena John, thanks for the info.
|
|
PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
|
Post by PG4Him on Oct 17, 2019 13:53:46 GMT -5
Babylon Bee is a comedy website.
|
|