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Post by Giller on Nov 13, 2019 13:55:21 GMT -5
And we have proven in this study on worship, that whether it be what is called an hymn or new song, both can either be scriptural, or non scriptural.
Here is an example of a good hymn that is biblical:
"Great is thy faithfullness
1 “Great is Thy faithfulness,” O God my Father, There is no shadow of turning with Thee; Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.
Chorus:
“Great is Thy faithfulness!” “Great is Thy faithfulness!” Morning by morning new mercies I see; All I have needed Thy hand hath provided— “Great is Thy faithfulness,” Lord, unto me!
2 Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest, Sun, moon and stars in their courses above, Join with all nature in manifold witness To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.
3 Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth, Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide; Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow, Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!"
And here is an example of a new song that is biblical:
"Love Mercy
What shall I bring before the Lord? And bow my knee before my God Extravagant sacrifice Can I give you a thousand words Or please you with ten thousand songs? Extravagant sacrifice
You've shown us what is good Through the message of Your Son
Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God
My life I bring before the Lord And bow my knee before my God Extravagant sacrifice My love more than a thousand words My praise more than ten thousand songs Extravagant sacrifice
You've shown us what is good Through the message of Your Son
Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God Walk humbly with your God
You've shown us what is good Through the message of Your Son His life, His death, poured out for us His words, His ways, our lifeblood
Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God
Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God Show justice, love, mercy Walk humbly with your God"
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Post by Giller on Nov 24, 2019 0:05:18 GMT -5
Soon enough in the future, I will get back to this study on worship, still have a lot to share.
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Post by Giller on Dec 16, 2019 12:39:17 GMT -5
Here are some things to think about, in regards to what God says.
Psa 150:3-5 (3) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. (4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
God's focus is in praising him with instruments, were when we play these instruments, the focus is heavenward, worshiping the God which art in Heaven.
And of course it mentions to worship him in dance, but this dance is just simply having a rejoicing heart to were it produces us dancing before the Lord, which the focus is heavenward, and not earthly ward.
The focus is not on style, the focus is on simply praising him, and if we properly praise him, it will produce reverence towards God, it will be done in a humble fashion, and it will be focused heavenward.
1Co 2:12 (12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
The spirit of the world is focused on a particular style, so to appease a certain type of crowd, or it can also be focused on performance, on attention to self, on celebrity status, and so on.
And the music of this world, truly produces the works of the flesh, in some form or manner.
See God's focus is strictly on worship and praise, see he does not say to seek a style, or to seek attention, or to seek celebrity status, he just says to praise him period, and if one is truly focused heavenward, all of these other things will vanish away, and if truly done the right way, it will produce the fruit of the Spirit.
It will not produce an attitude of blending in with the crowd, or of celebrity status, or of being hip, or to be considered cool, none of those things will be considered, only humble worship towards God.
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Post by Giller on Dec 16, 2019 13:52:07 GMT -5
And in truth, one can have a worship group or band, whatever you want to call it, and some of the group could be rightly focused, and there are others of the group who can be wrongly focused.
A good song can be sung, yet there can be in a sense competing spirits within the group, one rightly focused, the other wrongly focused.
Not that the Spirit of God competes with the spirit of this world, for it does not, but the spirit of this world does try to compete for attention.
Now God does want our attention, but we have to freely come to him, and not compete for it, God wants it to be real, or not at all.
God wants it to be real and not phony.
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2019 12:12:52 GMT -5
Now I will get into a bit of history on certain types of music especially the type that brings about certain types of aggression and things of this type.
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2019 13:13:02 GMT -5
And I myself, I am not into any personalities, sometimes we get so caught up into personalities that people get easily offended, and often times rather than seeking truth, a division is brought about, surrounding a personality.
In this post, let us just focus on truth, rather than personalities, and I will not mention any names here, just speaking of the music itself, so do not be offended.
Here is good info I found:
(https://religiousaffections.org/articles/articles-on-music/can-rap-be-christian-evaluating-hip-hop/)
(...Once again, let me ask you to separate personalities from this discussion. We are not evaluating persons or their motives; we are evaluating a culture and a medium of communication.
The Roots of Rap
Rap music is a subset of the culture of Hip Hop, which began in New York in the early 1970s.
1 It was developed in the impoverished, gang-saturated communities of the Bronx at block parties, which incorporated DJs who would play the hit music of the day. DJ Kool Herc, one of the most popular DJs of the early 70s and a Jamaican immigrant, began to recognize that people danced better to the percussive interludes of songs, and so he began to creatively mix together these smaller rhythmic sections in order to motivate the people to dance longer and harder. He combined this practice with the traditional Jamaican custom of “toasting,” or calling out above the music in rhythmic, rhyming chants. Thus rap music was born.
Rap music soon became the voice for expressions of anger and discontent with society. Its heavy rhythmic content and forceful, declamatory presentation provided a perfect vehicle for expressing this angst. Some, such as Afrika Bambaataa, an ex-street gang member, attempted to use hip hop culture as a means for re-channeling the rage of young people away from gang fighting into the music, dance, and art (graffiti) of the culture.
Rap music has developed in some ways since its inception, mostly in terms of complexity. However, its essential elements remain the same:
-aggressive, self-assertive, rhyming declamation -discontent socio-political commentary -heavy rhythmic foundation
The Culture of Rap
Today, rap music (and hip hop culture in general) is most often associated with violence, profanity, rebellion, hatred, and sexuality. This is not a Christian analysis by any means, but a common, conventional association that clearly exists today....
...Any casual survey of rap lyrics, album titles, or news reports about rap artists or their concerts reveals immediate connection to this kind of sinful activity.
In the interview we’re discussing, both Dever and Linne acknowledge this common connection as well:
Dever: One objection that I’ve heard before about this is that even if you’re persuaded that such music is not in and of itself wrong, what about the fact that for a lot of people they do associate rap as being a form of music that has been so characterized by violence … and profanity and materialism, and especially the degradation of women? What makes you then say, I want to use that form to spread the gospel and build the church?
Shai: I’m sensitive to that objection. I would join my brothers and sisters who would take serious issue with the things that are common and most secular forms of this music.
Now these kinds of associations don’t necessarily prove that the music inherently communicates these things (apart from the lyrics), but they should give any Christian careful pause for several reasons.
First, when a medium of communication is birthed out of a certain value system, there is great reason to assume that the medium will naturally express those values. If rap music (a medium of communication) was birthed out of an ethos of violence, drugs, hatred, and sexuality, it would be a far stretch to argue that it does not naturally express those values.....
...The Meaning of Rap
When evaluating the meaning of something, we judge its natural connections. What does it look like, what does it feel like, what does it sound like? If we are evaluating the body language or vocal inflections of someone else, we consider what those gestures and tones normally communicate when they are expressed by most humans.
When we evaluate what a form of communication communicates, we must ask what kinds of bodily movements and emotions look or “feel” like what the music sounds like. So, for instance, light bouncy music “feels” like being light and bouncy, i.e. “happy.” So what does rap music naturally “feel” like?
What does rap mean?
First, a basic style analysis by Timothy Shafer, a professor in the Division of Music at Penn State:
As a style, rap music is dominated by rhythm and specifically the backbeat; harmony and melody take a back seat. The sound of the backbeat inherently signifies the motion of the body during the act of sexual intercourse, as any rock musician will readily attest. The relative durations of the spoken rhythms are highly syncopated against the pulse, suggesting agitation and in louder instances, anger. Phrase structures (in terms of the groupings of spoken rhythms) are frequently irregular as well, again suggesting instability and a lack of respite. What harmony there is is extremely minimalistic and repetitive. Melody, for all intents and purposes, is non-existent. It may be claimed that the melody is single tone, but those tones are rarely sustained to the point of qualifying to be sung notes. It is rhymed, rhythmic speech, but not singing.
So basically, as a rhythmic art form, rap is dominated at all levels by syncopation, which is on the emotional spectrum between surprise, through agitation, toward anger/rebellion. The syncopation indicates varying levels (according to dynamic and other contexts) of aggression by virtue of its purpose of conflict against the principal pulse.
I agree with his analysis....)
Now I agree with this assertion.
In the bible God tells us to sing unto him, and there is no mention of rap.
And here is a scripture concerning melody:
Eph 5:19 (19) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
What I sense in rap regardless to the lyrics, is a need to be hip, or cool, or fit in, a need to be heard, and it produces a type of aggression in various degrees, a type of agitation.
Pro 21:4 (4) An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
I find that this music does produce an high look and proud heart of various degrees, whether it be an high look with the need of being cool (which is self centered), an high look of being hip (which is self centered), and so on.
God is not interested in producing the need to be cool in people, or the need to be hip, or the need to fit in, what God wants to produce is this:
Gal 5:22-23 (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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Post by Giller on Dec 18, 2019 14:48:03 GMT -5
I believe in a lot of ways, we are losing our aw for God, whether it be in worship, praise or other parts of life.
It is like God is just becoming people's buddies, yet we have to remember that he is an holy God, and we should come to him, knowing that he is holy, we need the aw inspiration, reverence, back in the church, otherwise, it will just turn into a club, a get all you can get from God and so on.
What ever happened to this aw inspiring reverence?
Were it is all about him, and not about this world, this earth, or us, or an individual?
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Post by Tabitha3319 on Dec 18, 2019 16:15:44 GMT -5
I disagree that rap is inherently bad.
Christian rap can be great for getting in a lot of Biblical truth in a single song.
Shai Linne does this in his music and is a great minister of the gospel whether he's rapping or not.
Rap has secular roots but there have been great efforts to promote the gospel, just in rap form.
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Post by John on Dec 18, 2019 19:14:32 GMT -5
The question over musical styles is something I have heard debated for a long time. I don't see any worship value in rap or rock or any worldly styles, but Naominash brings up another issue, value in it and can you take a style like that and use it for good by rapping scripture or Christian messages? Can rap music glorify God in any way? I would not want to have people rapping during a church service, anymore than I would want to bring Christian rock music into the service, but what about on the radio, or on your cd player? I am undecided on this. It would be easy for me to attack rap simply because I don't like that style of music. The questions raised are these.
1 Are some musical styles inspired of the devil and evil no matter the lyrics? What of rap, county, pop, rock, heavy metal?
2 If they are wrong, of course, they are bad anywhere, but if not, are there some styles of music that should not be brought into a worship service?
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Dec 18, 2019 19:31:44 GMT -5
The question over musical styles is something I have heard debated for a long time. I don't see any worship value in rap or rock or any worldly styles, but Naominash brings up another issue, value in it and can you take a style like that and use it for good by rapping scripture or Christian messages? Can rap music glorify God in any way? I would not want to have people rapping during a church service, anymore than I would want to bring Christian rock music into the service, but what about on the radio, or on your cd player? I am undecided on this. It would be easy for me to attack rap simply because I don't like that style of music. The questions raised are these.
1 Are some musical styles inspired of the devil and evil no matter the lyrics? What of rap, county, pop, rock, heavy metal?
2 If they are wrong, of course, they are bad anywhere, but if not, are there some styles of music that should not be brought into a worship service?
I have seen people teach that all music other than traditional worship is wrong. They teach that Lucifer was a type of worship leader in heaven, and one thing he has done after the fall is corrupt the music. They say that music itself was designed to worship the creator, and music for any other purpose is sinful. I don't know of anything in the Bible that says that is the case, so I am not convinced all music outside of worship music is sinful, but did Lucifer corrupt what God made to glorify him? Are musical styles like rock, rap and heavy metal, and maybe even bluegrass and country corruptions of God's design? I don't know.
I do agree with you about not bringing that kind of music into the church services. I like traditional hymns to be sung in church, but that is just my personal likes, but I really can't see how rap or rock can lead you into true worship?
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Post by Giller on Dec 19, 2019 12:02:02 GMT -5
Well here are things to consider, what does the bible say?
Php 1:14 (14) And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Here is what the word speak means, in the Greek:
(Strong's concordance)
(G2980 λαλέω laleō lal-eh'-o
A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, that is, utter words: - preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter. Compare G3004. Total KJV occurrences: 295)
So it speaks of talking , preaching etc, which is just simply with our normal voice, and when I read this, rapping the word does not come in mind at all.
So according to God, he says speak the word.
Now what else does it say?
1Co 14:15 (15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Now of course the context of this chapter, covers speaking in an unknown tongue. So singing in the spirit here is singing in an unknown tongue, and singing with the understanding, is of course singing with the language we know, which we understand.
The first thing that comes to mind, when I hear the word singing, is just simply to sing to the Lord, I do not think of rapping at all.
These are the things that God says in his bible to do.
Before the 1970's, most of course never even heard of rap music, and whether there was another form of it before the 70's it is possible, but still most had never heard of it, yet they were doing just fine worshiping God without it.
The bible says this:
Rom 12:2 (2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
The bible does not say to seek out the world and adopt it's ways, or what it can offer, and we can see that it seems that it was the secular world, not the church, which brought about rap music.
Also the bible says this:
Jer 10:2 (2) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
The heathen are the people of this world, which are idol worshipers, which today it would be mostly in the form of say worshiping rock stars, movie stars etc.
Now what does the word rap mean?
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapping)
(...Rapping (or rhyming, spitting,[1] emceeing,[2] MCing[2][3]) is a musical form of vocal delivery that incorporates "rhyme, rhythmic speech, and street vernacular",[4] which is performed or chanted in a variety of ways, usually over a backing beat or musical accompaniment.[4] The components of rap include "content" (what is being said), "flow" (rhythm, rhyme), and "delivery" (cadence, tone).[5] Rap differs from spoken-word poetry in that it is usually performed in time to musical accompaniment.[6] Rap being a primary ingredient of hip hop music, it is commonly associated with that genre in particular; however, the origins of rap precede hip-hop culture. The earliest precursor to modern rap is the West African griot tradition, in which "oral historians",[7] or "praise-singers",[7] would disseminate oral traditions and genealogies, or use their rhetorical techniques for gossip or to "praise or critique individuals."[7]...)
I guess it seems that there was an African version of rap, which seems to be before the 70 s, but in the overall, most had never heard of it, before the 70 s.
God never once in the bible instituted for us to rap.
And if God wanted us to, you would think that he would have instituted it at creation, but not one ounce of evidence shows this.
And there truly is a type of hip, aggressive, needing to be cool vibe, in rap.
When I think of someone falling down on their face, because of the presence of God during bible times, rap does not come to mind at all.
Pro 9:10 (10) The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
If God never instituted in any way, biblical wise for us to rap to him, should we not rather fear the Lord, and go by what the bible actually says, rather than take our chances?
Because I feel that the bible is being used less and less as the standard for judging things, and what is starting to prevail more and more, is judging things via someone's likes and dislikes, or the surrounding of a personality, to were oh I like that person, he touches me, and they judge things at times, within the surroundings of that personality, or they judge things strictly by feelings, yet judging by the word of not being conformed to this world, of learning not the ways of the Heathen, of going by what God actually says to do, is truly going by the way side.
What happened to the bible being our standard?
If God never instituted for us to rap to him, in the bible, in any way shape or form, should we not rather fear God, and not take a chance, just follow the blue print?
Anyhow here is another thing the bible says:
Isa 51:3 (3) For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
Eph 5:19 (19) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Melody is musical after a certain sense, either through a singing voice, or a played instrument.
God wants purity of heart, he tells us to play instruments, and to sing to him, but never tells us to go seeking after the things of the world and adopt their ways.
Just things to honestly consider, and it is better to fear the lord, than just do our own thing, and if God instructs us in a certain way, do you think God knows better?
Do we sometimes try to bring God down to our level?
Or down to an earthly level?
Some might say, well even though the bible does not mention for us to rap, that does not make a difference, well I got to ask, don't you think God knows everything, and God already knew that things like rap would come into the world?
Don't you think that God actually knows how to instruct us? Or do we know better, and can we dictate what his word should be saying?
I have more to say on this issue of worship, a lot more, and I will not cover every music, just want to cover one more, which is heavy metal.
But I will mention other things, strictly on bible premises, in how God thinks, and what he actually says.
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Post by Giller on Dec 19, 2019 12:31:45 GMT -5
Were the modern church has not been careful, is in the realm of being conformed to this world.
The so called churches tend to adopt the ways of the world to gain the world, so rap comes in, heavy metal comes in, hip hop comes in, and the list goes on, and now there is pole dancers, and of course zumba.
And more and more the world cannot tell the difference between what is called the church, and the world, for it looks exactly the same.
And some people of the world actually laugh at these types of churches.
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Post by Giller on Dec 19, 2019 12:44:29 GMT -5
See when we adopt the ways of this world, it opens up the door to other things of this world to come in, and then eventually we will be like the world, and sometimes not even know it, if not careful.
What God wants is complete surrender to him, even surrendering our musical talents to him, and there are times to were God might remove a talent from someone and for various reasons, which one can be because you are not allowing God to tweak your talent in the way he wants it to be, so it can properly glorify him.
In sanctification, God continuously conforms us to his image, and he tweaks certain areas of our lives so it can be conformed to him, yes even in our musical talent, but how much are we willing for God to tweak us, or change us?
And in truth, what is called the church today is truly a laughing stock to some of the people of this world, and this is not a joke.
It is like people are so much in to what is called churchianity, that they sometimes forget were they came from, and what God brought them out of.
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Post by Giller on Dec 19, 2019 12:58:09 GMT -5
I know it may sound to some like i am being mean, but I really am not trying to be mean at all, just very concerned about the church, and I do not want people to go in the wrong direction.
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Post by Giller on Dec 19, 2019 14:00:20 GMT -5
So I will eventually cover the Heavy metal part, and at some point, we will just simply get into what God requires, just via the bible, and just simply from that source.
And what is it in God's eyes, not in our eyes, we sometimes have our eyes too focused on us at times.
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