777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Nov 21, 2019 7:44:11 GMT -5
What in the world is going on here? Did I understand this right, that all of this strife is over a single comment someone made in chat? This kind of strife is not from God. The devil divides people over stuff like this. Everyone needs to have a look at what is important.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Nov 21, 2019 7:49:39 GMT -5
NO one accused anyone . Butero warned me about three hearts , I did not let my feelings take it all personal like it was an attack . This has never been an attack . THAT Man is a charlatan and I will expose him . BUT this is not me thinking candance is or anyone else is . If we start getting feelings hurt because one loves and sees dangers in something we made mention of , THEN we gonna shut down any kind of correction . The man is a danger and I will not cease to warn against him . If folks don't like this , THEN armour up and have me leave . In fact , I am seriously thinking about this and have been . So , I will pray about this and if that unction remains I will leave . I mean I did what I could out of love and not accusation . Nor do I say this lightly I have honestly been seriously considering leaving here . And I don't think anyone is false , but I will have to pray first one more time .
Brother, I haven't heard you accuse anyone here, and I agree with you that Todd White is someone who should be avoided. It's just that I'm not sure it's necessary to make anyone feel like they are being nailed to the wall and embarrassed....I know what that feels like and I'm not sure that is of the Lord. Maybe it comes from pressing the point harder than a person needs, or that the situation calls for. There are lots of ministers who are false, but once in a while they can still give a true teaching on something, and it doesn't have to mean a person is actually 'following' that teacher and swallowing the whole ministry hook, line and sinker, just that they happened upon some particular teaching that happened to be good and so were edified by it. That happens to me once in a while, I will happen upon something and be quite edified by a portion of it, even though I wouldn't endorse or follow their whole ministry. By all means if anyone knows a teacher is false they should warn and present their discernments etc, but at the same time I believe the Lord needs to left some room, and each person needs space and autonomy to form their own conclusions between themselves and the Lord. I dont' know what all has been discussed between everyone here on this, and hope I'm not sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong, but those are just my thoughts. I still don't have any idea who Todd White is, except that he is being argued over here, but I don't see anyone saying he is good. All I see is some saying he is bad and others saying they don't know. I don't generally have a chance to be here when you are having your live events in the chat, so I wasn't here when Todd White was mentioned, but if it was just something said in conversation, how did it blow up to this? Watchful, you seem like the voice of reason here. There are hundreds of false teachers out there. Why all of this fuss over this one? Are there posts I missed where someone is promoting this man's ministry?
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Post by John on Nov 21, 2019 8:34:57 GMT -5
Brother, I haven't heard you accuse anyone here, and I agree with you that Todd White is someone who should be avoided. It's just that I'm not sure it's necessary to make anyone feel like they are being nailed to the wall and embarrassed....I know what that feels like and I'm not sure that is of the Lord. Maybe it comes from pressing the point harder than a person needs, or that the situation calls for. There are lots of ministers who are false, but once in a while they can still give a true teaching on something, and it doesn't have to mean a person is actually 'following' that teacher and swallowing the whole ministry hook, line and sinker, just that they happened upon some particular teaching that happened to be good and so were edified by it. That happens to me once in a while, I will happen upon something and be quite edified by a portion of it, even though I wouldn't endorse or follow their whole ministry. By all means if anyone knows a teacher is false they should warn and present their discernments etc, but at the same time I believe the Lord needs to left some room, and each person needs space and autonomy to form their own conclusions between themselves and the Lord. I dont' know what all has been discussed between everyone here on this, and hope I'm not sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong, but those are just my thoughts. I still don't have any idea who Todd White is, except that he is being argued over here, but I don't see anyone saying he is good. All I see is some saying he is bad and others saying they don't know. I don't generally have a chance to be here when you are having your live events in the chat, so I wasn't here when Todd White was mentioned, but if it was just something said in conversation, how did it blow up to this? Watchful, you seem like the voice of reason here. There are hundreds of false teachers out there. Why all of this fuss over this one? Are there posts I missed where someone is promoting this man's ministry? No, there are no posts promoting his ministry. I am not aware of any threads promoting anyone's ministry? The only person I can think of I have praised openly is John Bunyan, the author of "Pilgrim's Progress" because he was a real holiness preacher, at least based on what I have seen from him. Among current ministers, I haven't done anything more than mention that Myles Munroe's single message on being an Ambassador for Christ had a major impact on my thinking, but I never endorsed him, and I said another minister is interesting. Nobody is perfect, and any man we say we like is subject to making mistakes. You can find fault in any of us, so we all tend to have people that we agree with more than disagree with or the other way around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 8:59:08 GMT -5
I wasn't party to the initial conversation about Todd White and don't know exactly what was said. But what I can say is that these are perilous days and the true gospel is more rare than diamonds....the devil is prowling around on the hunt for souls and in subtle ways. False teachers and ministers do need to be warned against. God may speak to different people in different ways, but I can share how the Lord has instructed me concerning this apostasy is that we need to do like Jesus' prophecy of Jerusalem says...Jerusalem being allegorical for the church...when you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies (ie, about to be judged and given into the hands of the enemy), flee to the mountains.....in other words, "come out of her my people", altogether and seek shelter in the Lord alone while this judgment takes place, so that His remnant will escape it and not get caught up in it. This agrees with another instruction in Isaiah where it says to Go my people enter your rooms and hide yourselves until my wrath/judgment passes by. Which the Lord confirmed to me in a dream. In other words I just don't follow anyone in the whole church system any more, our eyes need to be solely on Jesus....the whole thing is being judged, like the whole temple and city of Jerusalem of old was thrown down in 70 AD. We may wonder how could the Lord judge His own church like this...but if He did it to Jerusalem and Israel in her apostasy, it is a warning and ensample that He will do it to the church in her apostasy in the end. And the bible says judgment begins with the house of the Lord. Who am I, nobody special, but that is just my take on this in general, how the Lord has been gracious to communicate it to me, and Todd White is without doubt part of that whole scene.
So amen to warnings given in all urgency and zeal, they are needed and appreciated but just in my opinion if we can somehow try to be considerate and avoid making individuals feel like they have been spotlighted and are under arrest being captured Stalag 13 style ( ala Hogan's Heroes of olden days, heh). It has happened to me, so I know exactly how that feels, and just am not at all convinced it is necessary or kind to be made to feel that way, and could even have a counterproductive effect. It seems like an anomaly, not sure where it is coming from, because our dear and much loved brother frienduff is normally the most considerate and kind in the spirit of anyone I know including me by far, I'm sure we have all seen how he takes pains to spare one's feelings, so I hope he doesn't take this amiss, or feel unappreciated, but just maybe bring this to the Lord.
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Post by John on Nov 21, 2019 9:18:30 GMT -5
I don't think Frienduff intended to hurt anyone's feelings or attack our members. He was just looking at what he perceived to be a threat, and trying to expose it. I don't think anyone objects to that. This has just kind of snowballed into a mess and been turned into a crisis when none existed. It is a disproportionate response based on a visitor spying on our conversations.
If someone had started a thread talking about how Todd White was the best teacher out there, and kept it going, at least I could understand this. It would be a debate between two sides, a supporter and someone that doesn't like him. That is not happening. There are no threads like that. Who is being corrected? What is the purpose in continuing to warn about someone nobody is promoting? How does anyone claim we are promoting Todd White and therefore somehow part of the all inclusive agenda, so it makes no sense to invite people here to escape it, when that is not happening? The whole thing is manufactured.
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PG4Him
Senior Member
Essay Moderator
Posts: 3,570
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Post by PG4Him on Nov 21, 2019 9:22:09 GMT -5
You all want to how Frienduff’s feelings on this were expressed to me? A full week after the incident, when I’d nearly forgotten it, John and I were in Bible study together. We were knee-deep in a discussion about Jude. Frienduff busted into our study half an hour late, totally ignored our conversation about Jude, and jumped all over me for watching false teachers. That’s how I first encountered his “correction”. In public, in front of everyone, half an hour through a Bible study about a different topic. John tried that night to steer him back to Jude, but Frienduff wasn’t having it. He spent the rest of the appointed time yelling about Todd White.
Then it was full steam ahead in the forums. Every day. In the weeks that followed, the pattern continued of interrupting live events to change the subject. He would show up late, do some ranting about Rome, and then leave early to talk to his “real” friends on Worthy. That’s what he’s been doing now week after week.
I put up with this and said nothing. I actually told him I wanted to drop this and just never speak of it again. Never once did I come on here and say anything defensive about Todd. I wanted to forget it. Then yesterday I come here and it’s more Todd White.
You all tell me if this is correction. You all judge if I should shut up and tolerate this. After three weeks, when I tried and tried to drop it, I’m just done.
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Post by John on Nov 21, 2019 9:49:02 GMT -5
You all want to how Frienduff’s feelings on this were expressed to me? A full week after the incident, when I’d nearly forgotten it, John and I were in Bible study together. We were knee-deep in a discussion about Jude. Frienduff busted into our study half an hour late, totally ignored our conversation about Jude, and jumped all over me for watching false teachers. That’s how I first encountered his “correction”. In public, in front of everyone, half an hour through a Bible study about a different topic. John tried that night to steer him back to Jude, but Frienduff wasn’t having it. He spent the rest of the appointed time yelling about Todd White. Then it was full steam ahead in the forums. Every day. In the weeks that followed, the pattern continued of interrupting live events to change the subject. He would show up late, do some ranting about Rome, and then leave early to talk to his “real” friends on Worthy. That’s what he’s been doing now week after week. I put up with this and said nothing. I actually told him I wanted to drop this and just never speak of it again. Never once did I come on here and say anything defensive about Todd. I wanted to forget it. Then yesterday I come here and it’s more Todd White. You all tell me if this is correction. You all judge if I should shut up and tolerate this. After three weeks, when I tried and tried to drop it, I’m just done. That is exactly how everything went down. This is not correction, and I would once again ask, correction for what? What is being done that needs correcting, and how would we know when the correction is received? This so-called correction is not from God.
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Post by John on Nov 21, 2019 9:55:48 GMT -5
This is not intended to be an attack against Worthy Christian Forums. We all know about my issues in the past with George, but I have moved past that. That is an independent message board, and they are free to operate however they wish. But the thing is, we know what they believe over there. We know they promote unconditional eternal security. We know they allow someone to teach that a person can commit 1000 acts of murder and rape everyday without repenting and go to heaven. If birds of a feather flock together, and watching or supporting Todd White shows you have no discernment or are selling out to the globalist agenda, what does remaining in fellowship with WCF show? If Todd White associating with Kenneth Copeland and Catholics show he is dangerous, what does someone remaining in fellowship with all the false teachers at WCF show? I am not meaning this as an attack on all those who remain members there. Only one person is going around saying that everyone is guilty by association.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 10:16:32 GMT -5
To be honest, I've never considered that going to forums means you are necessarily fellowshiping with everyone there, or even endorsing the forum itself. To me it's just an opportunity to share what one has to share and to learn and glean from others. Just as if you ran into some people in the street and talked with them...doesn't have to mean you agree with everything they are about just because you stop to talk with them. But that's just how I see it coming to the internet later in life....I might not be clued into some of the nuances of internet communication.
Anyhow...I hope this storm blows over, most of them do....we all know that problems arise from time to time, it is part of life and being human. Maybe this conversation would be best continued on the private message board now, and try to resolve things in a way that is pleasing to the Lord.
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Post by John on Nov 21, 2019 10:29:08 GMT -5
To be honest, I've never considered that going to forums means you are necessarily fellowshiping with everyone there, or even endorsing the forum itself. To me it's just an opportunity to share what one has to share and to learn and glean from others. Just as if you ran into some people in the street and talked with them...doesn't have to mean you agree with everything they are about just because you stop to talk with them. But that's just how I see it coming to the internet later in life....I might not be clued into some of the nuances of internet communication. Anyhow...I hope this storm blows over, most of them do....we all know that problems arise from time to time, it is part of life and being human. Maybe this conversation would be best continued on the private message board now, and try to resolve things in a way that is pleasing to the Lord. I have never automatically seen it that simply saying you watch a certain minister in chat means you are in full agreement with them or promoting them. I also mentioned that I said nice things about my former Pastor while in a service with him and he did the same towards me, but we have serious areas of disagreement. I agree that we probably should deal with this in private. Still, thank you for your input.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 11:26:04 GMT -5
You all want to how Frienduff’s feelings on this were expressed to me? A full week after the incident, when I’d nearly forgotten it, John and I were in Bible study together. We were knee-deep in a discussion about Jude. Frienduff busted into our study half an hour late, totally ignored our conversation about Jude, and jumped all over me for watching false teachers. That’s how I first encountered his “correction”. In public, in front of everyone, half an hour through a Bible study about a different topic. John tried that night to steer him back to Jude, but Frienduff wasn’t having it. He spent the rest of the appointed time yelling about Todd White. Then it was full steam ahead in the forums. Every day. In the weeks that followed, the pattern continued of interrupting live events to change the subject. He would show up late, do some ranting about Rome, and then leave early to talk to his “real” friends on Worthy. That’s what he’s been doing now week after week. I put up with this and said nothing. I actually told him I wanted to drop this and just never speak of it again. Never once did I come on here and say anything defensive about Todd. I wanted to forget it. Then yesterday I come here and it’s more Todd White. You all tell me if this is correction. You all judge if I should shut up and tolerate this. After three weeks, when I tried and tried to drop it, I’m just done. Sister, I just can't speak to the specifics since I wasn't there in any of these conversations to see how it all went, but I am sorry you are feeling so hurt, I know it's difficult. I think there are two issues at play here, and it might be wise to try and separate them....one issue is how this was handled and how everyone is feeling about it....the other issue is the issue of Todd White himself, whether he is false and dangerous or not. All I can suggest is that everyone take a little break and put this on the back burner for a day or two until everyone is feeling calmer...and then try to start fresh ironing out both these issues in the private message area...anyway that would be my suggestion. In the meantime if we each would pray for the Lord to help us all to resolve this, and that His will be done, etc.
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Post by frienduff on Nov 21, 2019 11:31:27 GMT -5
NO one accused anyone . Butero warned me about three hearts , I did not let my feelings take it all personal like it was an attack . This has never been an attack . THAT Man is a charlatan and I will expose him . BUT this is not me thinking candance is or anyone else is . If we start getting feelings hurt because one loves and sees dangers in something we made mention of , THEN we gonna shut down any kind of correction . The man is a danger and I will not cease to warn against him . If folks don't like this , THEN armour up and have me leave . In fact , I am seriously thinking about this and have been . So , I will pray about this and if that unction remains I will leave . I mean I did what I could out of love and not accusation . Nor do I say this lightly I have honestly been seriously considering leaving here . And I don't think anyone is false , but I will have to pray first one more time .
Brother, I haven't heard you accuse anyone here, and I agree with you that Todd White is someone who should be avoided. It's just that I'm not sure it's necessary to make anyone feel like they are being nailed to the wall and embarrassed....I know what that feels like and I'm not sure that is of the Lord. Maybe it comes from pressing the point harder than a person needs, or that the situation calls for. There are lots of ministers who are false, but once in a while they can still give a true teaching on something, and it doesn't have to mean a person is actually 'following' that teacher and swallowing the whole ministry hook, line and sinker, just that they happened upon some particular teaching that happened to be good and so were edified by it. That happens to me once in a while, I will happen upon something and be quite edified by a portion of it, even though I wouldn't endorse or follow their whole ministry. By all means if anyone knows a teacher is false they should warn and present their discernments etc, but at the same time I believe the Lord needs to left some room, and each person needs space and autonomy to form their own conclusions between themselves and the Lord. I dont' know what all has been discussed between everyone here on this, and hope I'm not sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong, but those are just my thoughts. Good . this is good . that was my error In the fact I should have brought this up in private . I cant undo that . but I know I should have done that first . I am also happy to see you know I was not accusing , and that todd white is for sure someone who should be avoided . Now , if we can just pray more and start fresh it should be fine . It seems like the vast majority see the dangerous of todd . SO for sure I think I have stressed this one well enough . Thanks for this reminder , because in truth I should have first done it in private . its not like she had told the whole of narrow way this . So I admit that error and am sorry about that . And as you know my warnings were never once accusations , but just simple warnings .
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Post by frienduff on Nov 21, 2019 11:35:16 GMT -5
I still don't have any idea who Todd White is, except that he is being argued over here, but I don't see anyone saying he is good. All I see is some saying he is bad and others saying they don't know. I don't generally have a chance to be here when you are having your live events in the chat, so I wasn't here when Todd White was mentioned, but if it was just something said in conversation, how did it blow up to this? Watchful, you seem like the voice of reason here. There are hundreds of false teachers out there. Why all of this fuss over this one? Are there posts I missed where someone is promoting this man's ministry? No, there are no posts promoting his ministry. I am not aware of any threads promoting anyone's ministry? The only person I can think of I have praised openly is John Bunyan, the author of "Pilgrim's Progress" because he was a real holiness preacher, at least based on what I have seen from him. Among current ministers, I haven't done anything more than mention that Myles Munroe's single message on being an Ambassador for Christ had a major impact on my thinking, but I never endorsed him, and I said another minister is interesting. Nobody is perfect, and any man we say we like is subject to making mistakes. You can find fault in any of us, so we all tend to have people that we agree with more than disagree with or the other way around.
so then let us start fresh . and from here on , if any does warn against the dangers of anyone , let none of us see it as personal . I already admitted this should have been first done in private . So indeed I am sorry about that . From here on out if I warn against him , and I don't think it will be right off the bat , just let no one take it personal . The only way I will bring him back up is if I am led too , but mainly also if I see him perhaps pushing something more too . For now , this has for sure run its course . So let us be on guard , please do pray about what I reminded us all in private too .
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Post by frienduff on Nov 21, 2019 11:42:30 GMT -5
This is not intended to be an attack against Worthy Christian Forums. We all know about my issues in the past with George, but I have moved past that. That is an independent message board, and they are free to operate however they wish. But the thing is, we know what they believe over there. We know they promote unconditional eternal security. We know they allow someone to teach that a person can commit 1000 acts of murder and rape everyday without repenting and go to heaven. If birds of a feather flock together, and watching or supporting Todd White shows you have no discernment or are selling out to the globalist agenda, what does remaining in fellowship with WCF show? If Todd White associating with Kenneth Copeland and Catholics show he is dangerous, what does someone remaining in fellowship with all the false teachers at WCF show? I am not meaning this as an attack on all those who remain members there. Only one person is going around saying that everyone is guilty by association.
Just remember what I said in private about this .
I Don't support them a bit .
Its just a door was opened and a few do hear . When my time is up there , believe me I will leave fast and quickly . Remember the difference . I am not aligned with George or any of that leadership . I simply expose the false . HERE , it was my idea to begin this , that makes me far more responsible and I am aligned with the leadership here . That is one huge difference . And for sure I can say the leadership here is nothing like what it is at worthy . But still it has to be in agreement , maybe not on meats , drinks and days etc , pre trib and etc , BUT on grave dangers we must align and do battle against . One thing , and let me , you and everyone remember this well . Those who teach are gonna be held to a greater judgment . for those who helped guide the flocks are responsible that they do everything for the good of the flock . This is nothing more than a reminder . It is no accusation , even I myself mustbe reminded of it . I don't see myself as anything but a lowly one , who just by grace has been given the great joy of doing all to look out and even remind us of things we know . Ensuring not only that we just grow in grace more , but that nothing and in nothing we let anything slip or die . But that the first faith shines and nothing slips . SO I hope all are encouraged .
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Post by John on Nov 21, 2019 11:46:16 GMT -5
You all want to how Frienduff’s feelings on this were expressed to me? A full week after the incident, when I’d nearly forgotten it, John and I were in Bible study together. We were knee-deep in a discussion about Jude. Frienduff busted into our study half an hour late, totally ignored our conversation about Jude, and jumped all over me for watching false teachers. That’s how I first encountered his “correction”. In public, in front of everyone, half an hour through a Bible study about a different topic. John tried that night to steer him back to Jude, but Frienduff wasn’t having it. He spent the rest of the appointed time yelling about Todd White. Then it was full steam ahead in the forums. Every day. In the weeks that followed, the pattern continued of interrupting live events to change the subject. He would show up late, do some ranting about Rome, and then leave early to talk to his “real” friends on Worthy. That’s what he’s been doing now week after week. I put up with this and said nothing. I actually told him I wanted to drop this and just never speak of it again. Never once did I come on here and say anything defensive about Todd. I wanted to forget it. Then yesterday I come here and it’s more Todd White. You all tell me if this is correction. You all judge if I should shut up and tolerate this. After three weeks, when I tried and tried to drop it, I’m just done. Sister, I just can't speak to the specifics since I wasn't there in any of these conversations to see how it all went, but I am sorry you are feeling so hurt, I know it's difficult. I think there are two issues at play here, and it might be wise to try and separate them....one issue is how this was handled and how everyone is feeling about it....the other issue is the issue of Todd White himself, whether he is false and dangerous or not. All I can suggest is that everyone take a little break and put this on the back burner for a day or two until everyone is feeling calmer...and then try to start fresh ironing out both these issues in the private message area...anyway that would be my suggestion. In the meantime if we each would pray for the Lord to help us all to resolve this, and that His will be done, etc. Thank you for your concern and counsel. I really appreciate your input. I agree with you 100 percent that these are two separate issues. To the issue of how it was handled, I think it was handled badly. To the issue of Todd White and his ministry, the only way I can come to a conclusion on that is to watch him and investigate him beyond a couple of YouTube attack videos.
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