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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 16:06:10 GMT -5
Agree sister....it is not the Lord who tempts us, though it is the Lord who chastises us as sons. Jesus went to the cross in obedience to the Father. And if we look at Job.....how it was the Lord who called Job to Satan's attention. And funny how we often find that our circumstances are tailor made to try us in the very things we need to overcome, individually.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 16:12:22 GMT -5
And on that note sister watchful, leap up and kick back the chair you sitting on and PRAISE the LORD sister . Praise the LORD . Amen frienduff....all i can do sometimes is praise and thank the Lord for His wonderful goodness and mercy to a wretch like me! There is no thanks good enough for Him, and we can give Him all the praise that exists and still He is worthy of more! He is SO good and His love endures forever!
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Post by tlsitd on May 27, 2018 16:25:42 GMT -5
The better we know our God, the better we can discern who and what is and is not of Him (or coming from Him, with regard to doctrine, behavior, attitudes, and advice or ideas). And this knowledge comes from God Himself as we study His word and apply what we learn to our lives faithfully, and as we pray for Him to give us understanding and to guide us according to His will in all things. He gives us more understanding of Himself---how He thinks, what He desires, and how He works---as we do this, renewing our minds to be more like His own, and giving us necessary wisdom to do what is pleasing to Him.
The more submitted to God we are, and the more of a practice we make of putting ourselves to death and choosing the Lord, when we need to choose, the less opportunity there is for demons to tempt us with something that is not God's will, even if what they tempt us with is a "good" thing, like doing some good deed or using some personal talent that may benefit or be appreciated by a lot of people but simply isn't God's will for us to do. But if it's not God's will for us to do it, it's no good as far as He is concerned---and He doesn't recognize the "good" results of our disobedience, foolishness or presumption, but only our disobedience, foolishness and presumption.
I think a lot of Christians are tempted in this way: They think that the end justifies the means, which is a kind of deception---whether it's self-deception or demonic deception. What God wants most is a heart that is completely His---a heart like Christ's---not just "good works". Remember what He said to King Saul through the prophet Samuel, "To obey is better than sacrifice." (And boy, if that isn't an apt---and condemning---word for the churches today.)
Besides displeasing the Lord (because if what we are doing isn't His will, it can't and doesn't please Him, regardless of how much good it does), the other consequence of forging ahead with our own will rather than trying to understand and do what the Lord's will is for us is that the time that we should be spending doing whatever it is that God actually wants us to do, we're essentially wasting on worthless works, and we are not actually serving the Lord by what we are doing, but ourselves, regardless of results or appearances. (And the Christian who loves him or herself is open to all kinds of demonic temptation and deception. God supports us in doing His will, not our own.)
I'm very mindful of demons and their schemes, but I'm more mindful of myself. Demons can tempt, but they cannot compel us to sin. It's up to us to refuse the temptation by submitting ourselves to God. And God allows us to be tempted in order to show us our own hearts and the areas in which we are weak, so that we can work on them with Him, and also so that we will seek Him for spiritual strength, and see Him come through for us (increasing our reliance upon and confidence in Him), which is a valuable and essential practice to hone as a Christian, since we have no strength of our own that is of any avail to walk in holiness as God desires, and He does not want us to become self-confident and self-reliant and think that we ourselves are our own power and that we don't need God. God does not want us to be stronger in our own power, but in His, and He uses and allows both trials and temptations to strengthen us spiritually---so that we will ask Him to help us to improve what is not as it should be, when temptations bring such weaknesses to light, in order to make us more like Himself, and also to teach us not to rely on ourselves, but rather on Him in times of difficulty.
(Relying on and trusting God in doing His will brings peace and confidence. Relying on ourselves in trying to do the same brings anxiety, confusion, pride, weariness, and misery.)
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Post by John on May 29, 2018 10:23:03 GMT -5
PG4Him covered a lot in this thread so far. I hate to see it skimmed over, as she makes a lot of important points. I went through her posts twice. When it comes to false teachings, they are everywhere you turn. There is more false than true, and many of the big name tv preachers are the worst. False miracles can come through cheap magician's tricks, or the use of the occult in some cases.
She mentioned people claiming the Bible left things out we couldn't handle. That is a good point with regard to how false additions to the Bible were written, like the Book of Mormon, as well as The Watchtower and gnostic writings. They are all false gospels and false additions God never wrote. Beware of such things.
Temptations do not come from God, but from the devil, and they are intended to destroy us. God promises he won't allow us to be tempted above what we can bear, but that doesn't mean they are not real.
I would like for PG4Him to expand on how one can have an unhealthy avarice for spiritual knowledge? We are told to study to show ourselves approved. How does one cross this line?
She mentioned sins of virtue. Obedience is better than sacrifice, and you can do good works for the wrong reason. It can be to avoid doing what God wants you to, a distraction. It can be an attempt to substitute works for righteous living. Then came the phrase, "unhealthy avarice" again, so I am wondering if this sin of virtue was more limited in scope than I am taking it?
The warnings about pride were so needed. This is something we must fight with every success. Satan can turn a great victory into defeat through pride. I have known of people who took pride in sicknesses, and suffering for "the glory of God."
Offences is a big deal and is discussed in Romans. You can condemn your own self through what you do in front of someone to make them stumble, but they are still without excuse when they give in to sin.
Everyone will suffer temptations in this life, but I agree that the closer your walk with God, the harder Satan will work to take you out. Still, how does that lead to so few succeeding in ministry succeeding? My first thoughts were strife caused by others, like gossip, and discouragement.
I found this interesting. If you give up on God's promises because of trials, you had conditional faith. If you give in to sin as a result of trials, you had conditional obedience. Definitely food for thought there.
Finally, she mentions granting the enemy access to our hearts. How do we do that? To me it is those small compromises. They open the door, and the enemy advances to lead you into bigger sins. I am interested in more about how PG4Him sees this happening.
Very good instructions Candance. There were some questions I had, but a lot of good posts.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 29, 2018 11:51:56 GMT -5
Hello Butero! Thanks for jumping into this thread. I'd be happy to answer questions. Temptations do not come from God, but from the devil, and they are intended to destroy us. God promises he won't allow us to be tempted above what we can bear, but that doesn't mean they are not real. I see temptation as kind of like a magnetic attraction. When we encounter something our flesh wants, we get pulled in that direction. Our flesh may want that thing for a few different reasons. If we have a need we're not filling, such as friendship or self-esteem, our flesh will pull us toward a source of those things. In that case we need to find our identity in Christ, and perhaps spend more time with Christian friends, so that part of us isn't lacking. Sometimes our flesh has a corrupted view of something. We might be raised to see sex as predation, or to see alcohol as medication when we're sad, so our flesh logically works on that premise. We have to fix this with Biblical understanding. Other times, our flesh might simply have an appetite for sin. We may enjoy the feeling of acting superior to others, so we do it because it feels good. Many Christians fail to overcome temptation because they never learn why it tempts them. They get vague answers about original sin, so they try to overcome it by acting better. We can't be healed by tamping down our feelings. We have to bring them to the cross, confess, repent, and deal with what we lack. So many Christians think it's a sin to tell Jesus why sin makes them happy. They think it's a sin to explain why they're drawn to some temptation. As if Jesus doesn't already know. People do have legitimate needs that they try to fill in the world. The Bible doesn't say all of those needs are bad. It isn't a sin to want to be loved or to want a good friend or to want healing in our bodies. People have to learn how to actually find those things in Christ. I would like for PG4Him to expand on how one can have an unhealthy avarice for spiritual knowledge? We are told to study to show ourselves approved. How does one cross this line? There are things we don't need to know. The Bible tells us not to concern ourselves with endless genealogies, spiritual voyeurism, looking for kernels of truth in various myths, worship of angels, or bizarre heavenly visitations that may be interesting but don't achieve much. When John Ramirez came out of Satanism, he said there were certain things in his past he would never say in public because they were useless in glorifying Christ. When people go looking for "something more" the apostles left out of the Bible, they forfeit their protection. The Bible contains enough to keep us busy for a lifetime. I know a few Christians with an unhealthy avarice for charity. You can't take them out to dinner or give them nice gifts without them calling you unspiritual. They won't graciously accept anything for themselves. Charity becomes their god. People can have a certain style that they think is the only way to worship. They judge other Christians for playing the wrong music or dancing the wrong way or being too emotional. This becomes a wedge that keeps them out of fellowship with other parts of the Body. "Discernment" becomes a weapon to attack anyone who might be different. This is an unhealthy avarice for doing things their way. Everyone will suffer temptations in this life, but I agree that the closer your walk with God, the harder Satan will work to take you out. Still, how does that lead to so few succeeding in ministry succeeding? My first thoughts were strife caused by others, like gossip, and discouragement. As soon as we pose any sort of threat to Satan's kingdom, he will mobilize a response. It might happen through infiltration of strife. It can also happen by sending a possible marital affair, financially attacking the church that hosts the outreach, working through the minister's children to make life difficult at home, or maybe even causing a car accident. If we step out of God's will for a moment, we can really get burned. Some naive minister agrees to have lunch with an old flame, and the trap is set. Soon their ministry has lost its anointing. Satan will not lose an inch without a fight. If we take him on to tear down a stronghold while we have all sorts of open doorways in our flesh, we are asking for trouble. There are only two things Satan fears: the blood of Jesus and Holy Ghost anointing. Everything else -- our good works, our good preaching, whatever -- is just noise to him. He can't cross the blood, and he can't wrestle the Holy Spirit. If we don't allow the Holy Spirit to go before us, Satan will not be afraid of us, period. And as Sister Light mentioned, the Holy Spirit will only go before us when we're in God's will obeying Him to the best of our ability. He won't endorse a mission outside of His will just because of our good intentions. Remember in Acts 16:6 that the Holy Spirit blocked Paul from taking the gospel to Asia. If Paul had gone there anyway, with all the good intentions in the world, he would been squashed like a cockroach. Too many Christians get some idea for a ministry and go jumping in, with our without an anointing. They tread into spiritual places with snakes and scorpions. They dash their feet on spiritual stones because no one is holding them up. Enemy territory is described as a place fraught with peril. We cannot take it lightly.
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Post by John on May 29, 2018 12:57:34 GMT -5
Thanks for expanding on those points. You said something here I see as very important regarding prayer. We should be open to telling the Lord exactly how we really feel. As you pointed out, he knows anyway. Tell him what you are struggling with and why, and seek wisdom in how to deal with it.
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PG4Him
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Post by PG4Him on May 29, 2018 14:12:37 GMT -5
When we minister to people in these strongholds, we must be sensitive in our dealings. Let's compare and contrast two situations in Scripture.
First, we return to Acts 16, looking at 16-19:
Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.
This poor girl was literally a slave to demonic activity, and she'd probably been indoctrinated into this from childhood. Notice how Paul doesn't criticize the girl. He doesn't rebuke her personally. He offers her freedom. If Paul had launched a verbal attack to humiliate (ahem, "rebuke") the girl, nothing would have changed.
Now let's back up to Acts 8...
But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the great power of God.”
Simon wanted to be popular and influential. He was using sorcery to make a name for himself. He was able to convert so quickly because he wasn't as brainwashed as the slave girl. But then we see this...
But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”
Peter didn't say this man was bound by sorcery. He said the man's problem was bitterness and iniquity. His sorcery was a symptom of his heart. Peter cut to the root of the problem so this man could realize what he needed to repent of.
Peter could have easily snapped at him (ahem, "rebuked" him) with a comment that he was "in error" and left it at that. But it probably wouldn't have changed him.
God won't use us to psycho-analyze everyone we meet, but there are indeed times when He wants us to discern the root of sin. Sometimes we will be called upon to help a person see why they keep sliding into sin. Yelling at people that they have to do better is not effective ministry. The Pharisees did that. This is what causes so many Christians to think behavior modification is the ticket to heaven.
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Post by tlsitd on May 29, 2018 15:44:23 GMT -5
I would like for PG4Him to expand on how one can have an unhealthy avarice for spiritual knowledge? We are told to study to show ourselves approved. How does one cross this line? There are things we don't need to know. The Bible tells us not to concern ourselves with endless genealogies, spiritual voyeurism, looking for kernels of truth in various myths, worship of angels, or bizarre heavenly visitations that may be interesting but don't achieve much. When John Ramirez came out of Satanism, he said there were certain things in his past he would never say in public because they were useless in glorifying Christ. When people go looking for "something more" the apostles left out of the Bible, they forfeit their protection. The Bible contains enough to keep us busy for a lifetime.
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Post by 2fw8212a on May 29, 2018 21:08:59 GMT -5
PG4Him tlsitd Please, you are all loved!"lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices." - 2 Corinthians 2:11God bless you all in Jesus' name!
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Post by frienduff on May 30, 2018 8:58:30 GMT -5
And on that note sister watchful, leap up and kick back the chair you sitting on and PRAISE the LORD sister . Praise the LORD . Amen frienduff....all i can do sometimes is praise and thank the Lord for His wonderful goodness and mercy to a wretch like me! There is no thanks good enough for Him, and we can give Him all the praise that exists and still He is worthy of more! He is SO good and His love endures forever! Oh let us always remember that . That God alone sent grace and even drew us to the SON , so that all who do believe In HIM shall not perish but have eternal life . That we in no way deserved grace , for all we earned was hell fire and death . But in mercy and by the POWER of GOD we are saved and kept . For if HE even took His Spirit from us we would be doomed . Only let us heed and obey the Spirit and keep growing in the grace of God , which is The Spirit within us that teaches us and unctions us and even gives us the ability to walk pleasing in His sight . Let us heed the unctions of the ONLY ONE who has saved us , washed us , and can keep us from falling . Oh let us heed the spirit and learn sound doctrine which makes us wise unto salvation through faith in Christ . Let us be ever greatful for the goodness of GOD , and let none be highminded . Let us simply trust and obey Christ , who is our sufficiency , the one able to keep us , the Shepard of the Sheep . May we continually exhort one another and remind one another and stir one another up unto good works and to be walking worthy of HE who has saved us . Now lets praise the Lord .
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Post by John on Oct 16, 2019 11:31:04 GMT -5
While sitting at the port, I had time to read through much of this thread, and it is packed full of good material from sister Candance. I highly recommended it then and still do. She discusses a lot of tricks the enemy uses to cause us to stumble.
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Post by John on Oct 17, 2019 5:42:43 GMT -5
These questions came up in a recent thread here, so I thought they deserved further attention. How much danger does the enemy present to Christians? How much bondage/oppression can he keep a Christian under? What are his methods of attack? Let's discuss. Disclaimer: This thread is NOT a scare tactic to incur fear in those who read! Please don't let this devolve into scary stories with no doctrinal context. God has not given us a spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind. We have access to all the authority and victory we need in Christ. This thread is to edify readers so they might anticipate, avoid, and overcome attacks! First, let's establish the nature of our enemy: For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 4:1)
Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” (Genesis 3:1)
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8)
The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)
Naive Christians often get the idea that, since Satan cannot do anything good or righteous, he will not manifest any good qualities. That's not quite how it works. Deception is very common during enemy attacks. Evil spirits can put up a front through offering bribes, seeming to be very kind, performing so-called miracles, and mixing in a dash of truth/wisdom to sell their false teachings. When we accept every "good sign" as coming from God, we can quickly be deceived. Deceptive enemy spirits infiltrate the church by acknowledging a few things about Jesus: When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?" (Matthew 8:28:29)
Then he brought Him to Jerusalem, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge over you, To keep you,’ and, ‘In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ” (Luke 4:9-11)
The enemy will quote Scripture and even admit the identity of Jesus. Satan knows perfectly well who Jesus is. So a naive Christian encounters some type of "angel" or "messenger" from the spirit world. The Christian figures that all he has to do is mention Jesus. The spirit half-heartedly admits to knowing who Jesus is. The Christian falls for it hook, line, and sinker. What protection do we have? The gospel. Satan and his minions hate the gospel story. John gives us this insight: By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 John 4:2-3)Any time you encounter a person or a "messenger" who seems to know a little about Jesus, start preaching the gospel. Jesus was incarnated through a virgin birth, lived a sinless life, died on the cross, and rose on the third day to defeat death. As soon as you start "going there" you will see very plainly whether that messenger believes the gospel. One thing Satan will not do is admit his defeat on the cross. There is much more to cover, but I don't have time for all of it now. This should be enough to spark discussion. I'll return later (Lord willing) to add more. When the devil or a demon is trying to deceive a person, they will not come and identify themselves as a devil. They will come disguised as very loving and only wanting to help you. They will not show up as an ugly monster, but as an angel of light. There is no question that they will quote scripture. They probably know the Bible better than most Christians, and they most certainly will give you some truth mixed with error. They do know who Jesus is, and they tremble when they are in His presence. It is not random Bible verses they are bothered by, as they will quote scriptures out of context all the time, but it is truth and sound doctrine they cannot endure. When Jesus was tempted of the devil in the wilderness, it was when He used scripture in truth that the devil gave up and left for a season.
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Post by 777 on Oct 21, 2019 20:08:10 GMT -5
These questions came up in a recent thread here, so I thought they deserved further attention. How much danger does the enemy present to Christians? How much bondage/oppression can he keep a Christian under? What are his methods of attack? Let's discuss. In answer to the first question, the enemy can potentially present a grave threat to Christians. He comes to steal, kill and destroy, and is capable of doing all three.
In answer to the second question, as much as a Christian allows him to. If they don't take authority over him, he can keep them in bondage their entire life.
Regarding the third question, there are many ways the devil comes against us. Speaking to us, he tempts us to give into sin. He lies to us to make us think we will be ok, even if we do sin. He places people in our path that are bad to try to get us to stumble. He attacks us in our health. He can attack our possessions. Look at how he attacked Job. He can use our spouse to work against us. He comes against us in a lot of ways.
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