|
Post by Saved Forever on Jan 3, 2020 12:44:49 GMT -5
Salvation is not by the works of the law. Galatians 2:16 says "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
If salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the works of the law, how can you lose your salvation because you violated the law?
|
|
777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by 777 on Jan 3, 2020 13:00:35 GMT -5
Salvation is not by the works of the law. Galatians 2:16 says "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." If salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the works of the law, how can you lose your salvation because you violated the law? Nobody is claiming we are justified by the works of the law. If that were possible, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross. I am saying that there are no scriptures that say salvation cannot be lost and there are no scriptures that say salvation is unconditional. In that same book of Galatians, Paul says in Galatians 5:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
Everyone I have seen that promotes OSAS likes to refer to Galatians, but they conveniently ignore this. What of someone who gets saved and then lives this kind of lifestyle after getting saved? This passage doesn't say they are still secure. It doesn't say they are the exception to this rule. The term "unconditional eternal security" is found no place in scripture. It is like so many other false doctrines. You just keep being told something is there, and people assume it is true. If you actually take the time to investigate it, you find that you have been deceived.
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Jan 3, 2020 19:29:45 GMT -5
I think I see how this works. Romans 5:15,16 says "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift of grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. The Bible says salvation is a gift. and so is grace. God is not an indian giver. Hello and welcome. I appreciate you posting scripture to make your argument. The Indian giver comment is the kind of thing I am trying to avoid, but overall, this is the kind of civil discussion we need to have.
I see you chose to post as "Saved Forever." There is no reason that we can't all be saved and kept. As 777 stated in one of his posts, it is only willful sins that can cost you salvation. You literally have to make a choice to rebel against God. Even then, you can be restored by confessing your sins to God and turning from them
A gift can be lost. We lose possessions all the time. A gift can be conditional. People often leave things to others in a will, but based on conditions. Salvation is a free gift, but your keeping it is conditional. You must continue to believe in Jesus, and you must keep following him. We cannot be like Lot's wife, who by grace was delivered from Sodom, but looked back.
Jesus spoke of enduring to the end . always remember that . But he that endures to the end the same shall be saved . Paul reminds the church . To behold both the goodness and severity of GOD . Be not highminded church , but fear , for if GOD did not spare the natural branches take heed lest he spare not you . Goodness towards us , IF we continue in HIS GOODNESS otherwise ye shall be cast out . PUMP those scriptures out . For we are made partakers of Christ , IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the END . Bring the the examples in Hebrews and in peter . ANd notice in revelation . GOD tells them all the good things they did , AND GOD says , YOU NEED to return to the love you had at first . WHICH MEANS they had IT , and were losing it . AND IF they DID NOT REPENT , That end was not gonna be good . What did paul say , WHEN they have began to wax wanton against CHRIST they will have damanation, Because they leave the good pure faith THEY HAD AT FIRST . ITs all over how sin will harden a heart . CHeck these out too . LOOKING diligently lest any man FAIL Of the grace of GOD , lest any root of bitterness springs up and thereby many be DEFILED . And tons more . IF we don't continue in Christ , then what do you think the end will be . WHO we follow is where we will end up . JESUS LEADS , but who will follow . IF we take off heeding HIM who speaks from heaven . Butero they are tons of scrips . Bring those .
|
|
Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Cletus on Jan 4, 2020 10:07:55 GMT -5
I think I see how this works. Romans 5:15,16 says "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift of grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. The Bible says salvation is a gift. and so is grace. God is not an indian giver. I wholeheartedly agree with your statment that God is not an indian giver. I dont really like the term indian giver, but i am not offended but perhaps others may be. anyway, what i want you to realize is that its not God who gives us eternal life and then takes it away as if He Is just watching and wating to punish the wicked sinner. Scripture tells us God makes the sun rise and sends the rain for the just and the wicked... i.e. its not God's way to do that. the truth is its us who turns from God and His Ways and go our own way. its a choice we make. we are made as a being with free will to choose, and scripture even says so. read all around Duet. 30. you will find in the chapters around there God tells us that Its Him who sets before us life and death, and He even instructs us to choose life and tels what the blessings are to those who choose whats good. You see, the osas crowd seeks to alleviate any responsibility to obedience. what the osas doctrine does is say i am not responsible for my actions as Jesus already paid the penalty. But scripture tells us that if we have tasted righteousness and salvation and we turn again to our old ways its no different that traveling back in time, climbing up on the cross and jumping up and down on Jesus shoulders while He Is hanging on the cross. OSAS is a teaching that perverts God's grace. what scripture does say is that no man can take away your salvation... but scripture nowhere says if you continue on in sin willfully that you are in a right standing with God.
the next thing i want to speak to you on is works. salvation is not based on your works. you cant earn salvation. you can not pay for your sins as you were born a slave sold to sin. Adam and Eve saw to making that reality for you and me. we both have spot and blemish... however Jesus Christ did not. the thing about works is that if your faith is really alive and kicking... if you truly worship God in Spirit and Truth... then you will have works. The Spirit in you and thru you will see to that. but here is where it gets interesting.... we are not just judged by works but also by every word we ever speak. if you words profess osas so my sins are covered by the blood and you sing that heretical tune of Jesus plus nothing, which is not biblical grace but hyper grace, and judgment day comes and your words and actions do not line up do you really think or expect a God, a Holy God with out sin, A God who as scripture tells us has judgment in ALL His Ways... do you really think A God that judges righteously... and non-partial.... do you honestly think He will spot His garment by saying in Judgment well done thy good and faithful servant?
lets take a look at something in scripture right quick.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
tell me, exactly how does the teaching of osas and this passage reconcile? short answer: they dont. when something contradicts the bible it should be rejected.
the gift of God is eternal life. eternal life is not so much about duration of time, tho there will be plenty of that... it has also to do with how one lives. life. living. there are two paths. the road to destruction. and the straight and narrow.
|
|
|
Post by christdiedforoursins on Jan 22, 2020 1:54:12 GMT -5
No one can pluck them out of my hand I have lost none you gave me except the son of perdition..
My understanding is if someone is truely born again they cannot loose their salvation but this particular passage is talking about how Paul became all things to all men but he still had to watch his own life as the example he was setting as an apostle he was responsible to act in such a way and be of such character exercising self restraint yet still moving in the freedom to be all things to all men with purpose focused on the goal of winning souls for Jesus but also checking his own walk of faith ...the only example I can give is a brother of mine was doing Bible study ,but setting a bad example thinking being all things to all men was to smoke with the smokers and drink with the drinkers ,,I had to stop going because all I thought was ,but didn't Jesus save me from all this ?it was as if the young pastor (my brother)was nullifying the word of God.and the power of God to save us from such things ,and promoting a licence to sin ,I was told to grow up ,that I was a baby Christian and that ,he was exercising his freedom in Christ that he had such a great faith he could drink large amounts of wine with a clear conscious.He was a castaway,then I had an experience where ministering to Muslims I was dressing like them but a sneaky thing started to happen in my heart ,becoming like them almost made me ineffective on how far I would go ,for example would I dress modestly and also quote the koraan as truth no !,,,it was that I must not practice their religion but speak truth where there is error,,but not offend by eating pork even if I had freedom to do it,and still remembering I'm saved by Grace not by how I dress or what I eat.sometimes religious observances can be deceptive I think .there was the situation were Peter withdrew from the gentiles then he was not walking in the truth and Paul rebuked him ...we in ministring to others we have to watch our own lives ,,,eventually that young pastor the brother of mine ended up marrying a Buddhist and got put out of a church in Australia came home to arrange to go to Korea ,was harassing for two weeks ,He eventually beat me up after I rebuked him and he cursed Jesus ,this is kind of what I think Paul is saying .as I read the passage this situation came to mind Paul says even in his freedom he has self restraint a holy ambition a zeal for souls and an example to set yet he is also still to watch his own life him being an apostle of God.
|
|
|
Post by christdiedforoursins on Jan 22, 2020 2:17:27 GMT -5
My apologies I don't really understand the "Once saved always saved" controversy. I agree with what Cletus said in the above post,I think the label is wrong(they are must false converts)...once someone is saved they are saved or they were never realy saved at all,but I do think their are a lot of false converts that think they are saved but are not ,they hold to Christianity as a religion of outward performance and observance of rituals or even attendance at church etc. but they do not have true saving faith just dead religion maybe even "church language" or catch phrases.they know when to stand up and when to sit down type of thing...
They profess to know God but by third works they deny him.
|
|
|
Post by christdiedforoursins on Jan 22, 2020 2:28:10 GMT -5
I think I see how this works. Romans 5:15,16 says "But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift of grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. The Bible says salvation is a gift. and so is grace. God is not an indian giver. Hello and welcome. I appreciate you posting scripture to make your argument. The Indian giver comment is the kind of thing I am trying to avoid, but overall, this is the kind of civil discussion we need to have.
I see you chose to post as "Saved Forever." There is no reason that we can't all be saved and kept. As 777 stated in one of his posts, it is only willful sins that can cost you salvation. You literally have to make a choice to rebel against God. Even then, you can be restored by confessing your sins to God and turning from them
A gift can be lost. We lose possessions all the time. A gift can be conditional. People often leave things to others in a will, but based on conditions. Salvation is a free gift, but your keeping it is conditional. You must continue to believe in Jesus, and you must keep following him. We cannot be like Lot's wife, who by grace was delivered from Sodom, but looked back.
|
|
|
Post by christdiedforoursins on Jan 22, 2020 3:04:25 GMT -5
....humm inversing idea,but if the gift was anything but salvation ,which means being saved from eternal damnation then I think this idea would work,,but because salvation is a gift it cannot be revoked,lost ,misplaced, its not a gift of material substance like keys its a spiritual rebirth,we can grieve the spirit and were commanded not to quench the spirit and to walk by the spirit not gratifying the flesh and its desires mortifying our flesh daily and bringing it into subjection. the holy spirit is Given to us as a garentee earnest (were sealed by God )of things to come.if salvation can be lost is makes God out as not to be a very good saviour and even a liar at worst and not worth us putting our Faith in him...we stand by faith in Jesus our savior our flesh cannot save us we died with Christ we have been born again are made a new creation by being born again by the spirit of God were born incorruptible. Or of the incorruptible seed Of God who is Jesus .If we can loose our salvation after we have been saved that would mean Jesus is not a saviour at all.And that he didn't really die for our sins and that our faith is in vain .But Jesus did die for our sins were saved by trusting in him who is the author and finisher of our faith .many people of faith in the old testament broke The law of God ,David was a murderer and adulterer ,Samson was often visiting harlots David ate the shewbread,Abraham did many things but he was not under the law .but their is a law of faith .Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. There are many people who have been told they are the elected of God they said the prayer and attended the building even maybe 3bible studies a week and twice to 'church 'on Sunday they are not saved because they do not realy have faith...their lives are filled with gluttony and pleasures of this world without care for the week the poor they walk around saying I'm a sinner saved by grace ,,and it can go the other way with the astectics who deny certain foods and marriage and fast alot and have an aversion to colour.Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen ,if we can loose our salvation their is no hope and our faith is void and basically what Jesus has done for us by becoming a man and dying in the place of mankind,is useless....our faith is in he who is faithfully and able to save us .its about Jesus and he is mighty to save....there are sins unto death we cannot pray for ,but if someone sins we have an advocate ,,Jesus who is faithfully and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.....
|
|
|
Post by christdiedforoursins on Jan 22, 2020 3:10:20 GMT -5
The gifts and calling of God are without repentence.a scripture that came to mind.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 22, 2020 5:33:45 GMT -5
....humm inversing idea,but if the gift was anything but salvation ,which means being saved from eternal damnation then I think this idea would work,,but because salvation is a gift it cannot be revoked,lost ,misplaced, its not a gift of material substance like keys its a spiritual rebirth,we can grieve the spirit and were commanded not to quench the spirit and to walk by the spirit not gratifying the flesh and its desires mortifying our flesh daily and bringing it into subjection. the holy spirit is Given to us as a garentee earnest (were sealed by God )of things to come.if salvation can be lost is makes God out as not to be a very good saviour and even a liar at worst and not worth us putting our Faith in him...we stand by faith in Jesus our savior our flesh cannot save us we died with Christ we have been born again are made a new creation by being born again by the spirit of God were born incorruptible. Or of the incorruptible seed Of God who is Jesus .If we can loose our salvation after we have been saved that would mean Jesus is not a saviour at all.And that he didn't really die for our sins and that our faith is in vain .But Jesus did die for our sins were saved by trusting in him who is the author and finisher of our faith .many people of faith in the old testament broke The law of God ,David was a murderer and adulterer ,Samson was often visiting harlots David ate the shewbread,Abraham did many things but he was not under the law .but their is a law of faith .Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. There are many people who have been told they are the elected of God they said the prayer and attended the building even maybe 3bible studies a week and twice to 'church 'on Sunday they are not saved because they do not realy have faith...their lives are filled with gluttony and pleasures of this world without care for the week the poor they walk around saying I'm a sinner saved by grace ,,and it can go the other way with the astectics who deny certain foods and marriage and fast alot and have an aversion to colour.Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen ,if we can loose our salvation their is no hope and our faith is void and basically what Jesus has done for us by becoming a man and dying in the place of mankind,is useless....our faith is in he who is faithfully and able to save us .its about Jesus and he is mighty to save....there are sins unto death we cannot pray for ,but if someone sins we have an advocate ,,Jesus who is faithfully and just to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness..... The problem I find with this post is the same problem I find with most arguments in favor of unconditional eternal security. It is all based on human reasoning rather than scriptural arguments. This is more like a speech than a Bible based set of reasons why we can't lose salvation. Look at some of the things you said.
"If we can lose our salvation after we have been saved, that would mean Jesus is not a savior at all." That doesn't make any sense. It wouldn't mean any such thing. That is like me seeing a person about to fall into a pit, and running up to them and rescuing them before they fall, and telling them exactly where the danger lies. I was their savior, but that doesn't stop them from going back to the same place, ignoring my warnings, and falling into the pit a year down the road. I was still their savior. It is not my fault they returned back to the danger all over again. Our messing up later doesn't make his death in vain. It is of great value to those who endure till the end.
Of course there were people in the Bible that were saved and did terrible things but remained saved. King David was one. In Old Testament times, by faith, they repented and an animal was sacrificed that they could be forgiven. Today, we repent and trust that the blood of Jesus will wash us clean again. These are not difficult arguments to refute, but all of this is just based on human reasoning. There is no scripture here. I appreciate your attempt to defend unconditional security, but I am really seeking Bible based arguments, because we can go back and forth all day just using reasoning like this for and against.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 22, 2020 5:38:53 GMT -5
The gifts and calling of God are without repentence.a scripture that came to mind. In context, this doesn't work. Paul is speaking of how God called Israel, but because they rejected Christ, they are enemies of the cross. The promises that were made to the Jews remain in tact, but in the meantime, those who don't believe in Christ are lost. If anything, this works against unconditional security, because it shows that in spite of the fact that God chose them, because of their unbelief, at this time, they are lost. That passage is in Romans 11:26-36.
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 22, 2020 5:47:42 GMT -5
No one can pluck them out of my hand I have lost none you gave me except the son of perdition.. My understanding is if someone is truely born again they cannot loose their salvation but this particular passage is talking about how Paul became all things to all men but he still had to watch his own life as the example he was setting as an apostle he was responsible to act in such a way and be of such character exercising self restraint yet still moving in the freedom to be all things to all men with purpose focused on the goal of winning souls for Jesus but also checking his own walk of faith ...the only example I can give is a brother of mine was doing Bible study ,but setting a bad example thinking being all things to all men was to smoke with the smokers and drink with the drinkers ,,I had to stop going because all I thought was ,but didn't Jesus save me from all this ?it was as if the young pastor (my brother)was nullifying the word of God.and the power of God to save us from such things ,and promoting a licence to sin ,I was told to grow up ,that I was a baby Christian and that ,he was exercising his freedom in Christ that he had such a great faith he could drink large amounts of wine with a clear conscious.He was a castaway,then I had an experience where ministering to Muslims I was dressing like them but a sneaky thing started to happen in my heart ,becoming like them almost made me ineffective on how far I would go ,for example would I dress modestly and also quote the koraan as truth no !,,,it was that I must not practice their religion but speak truth where there is error,,but not offend by eating pork even if I had freedom to do it,and still remembering I'm saved by Grace not by how I dress or what I eat.sometimes religious observances can be deceptive I think .there was the situation were Peter withdrew from the gentiles then he was not walking in the truth and Paul rebuked him ...we in ministring to others we have to watch our own lives ,,,eventually that young pastor the brother of mine ended up marrying a Buddhist and got put out of a church in Australia came home to arrange to go to Korea ,was harassing for two weeks ,He eventually beat me up after I rebuked him and he cursed Jesus ,this is kind of what I think Paul is saying .as I read the passage this situation came to mind Paul says even in his freedom he has self restraint a holy ambition a zeal for souls and an example to set yet he is also still to watch his own life him being an apostle of God. The scripture that says nobody can pluck them out of God's hands doesn't say that you can't still lose salvation, just like Judas Iscariot did. Nobody plucked him out of God's hands, but he walked away and was lost. That is in John 10:29. The scripture in John 17:12 about none being lost but the son of perdition proves you can be saved and later lost, just like Judas Iscariot. This verse was referring to the original apostles, and it was fulfilled. It is often taken out of context by those promoting unconditional security. Judas Iscariot was called of Jesus himself, and made an Apostle, and his position, eternal life, and Apostleship were all taken from him and given to another named Matthias.
|
|
|
Post by frienduff on Jan 22, 2020 9:56:10 GMT -5
No one can pluck them out of my hand I have lost none you gave me except the son of perdition.. My understanding is if someone is truely born again they cannot loose their salvation but this particular passage is talking about how Paul became all things to all men but he still had to watch his own life as the example he was setting as an apostle he was responsible to act in such a way and be of such character exercising self restraint yet still moving in the freedom to be all things to all men with purpose focused on the goal of winning souls for Jesus but also checking his own walk of faith ...the only example I can give is a brother of mine was doing Bible study ,but setting a bad example thinking being all things to all men was to smoke with the smokers and drink with the drinkers ,,I had to stop going because all I thought was ,but didn't Jesus save me from all this ?it was as if the young pastor (my brother)was nullifying the word of God.and the power of God to save us from such things ,and promoting a licence to sin ,I was told to grow up ,that I was a baby Christian and that ,he was exercising his freedom in Christ that he had such a great faith he could drink large amounts of wine with a clear conscious.He was a castaway,then I had an experience where ministering to Muslims I was dressing like them but a sneaky thing started to happen in my heart ,becoming like them almost made me ineffective on how far I would go ,for example would I dress modestly and also quote the koraan as truth no !,,,it was that I must not practice their religion but speak truth where there is error,,but not offend by eating pork even if I had freedom to do it,and still remembering I'm saved by Grace not by how I dress or what I eat.sometimes religious observances can be deceptive I think .there was the situation were Peter withdrew from the gentiles then he was not walking in the truth and Paul rebuked him ...we in ministring to others we have to watch our own lives ,,,eventually that young pastor the brother of mine ended up marrying a Buddhist and got put out of a church in Australia came home to arrange to go to Korea ,was harassing for two weeks ,He eventually beat me up after I rebuked him and he cursed Jesus ,this is kind of what I think Paul is saying .as I read the passage this situation came to mind Paul says even in his freedom he has self restraint a holy ambition a zeal for souls and an example to set yet he is also still to watch his own life him being an apostle of God. The scripture that says nobody can pluck them out of God's hands doesn't say that you can't still lose salvation, just like Judas Iscariot did. Nobody plucked him out of God's hands, but he walked away and was lost. That is in John 10:29. The scripture in John 17:12 about none being lost but the son of perdition proves you can be saved and later lost, just like Judas Iscariot. This verse was referring to the original apostles, and it was fulfilled. It is often taken out of context by those promoting unconditional security. Judas Iscariot was called of Jesus himself, and made an Apostle, and his position, eternal life, and Apostleship were all taken from him and given to another named Matthias.
Butero I do understand what you are saying , but you are really hurting your position when you use JUDAS . JESUS KNEW HE was a DEVIL from the beginning . JESUS KNEW IT . THAT man never in heart FOLLOWED JESUS . HE never did . IT was never in heart . OH he might have done some good works , BUT HE was never truly FOR CHRIST . that man even took money from the bag , THE WHOLE TIME he was with them . HE NEVER KNEW JESUS IN TRUTH . He was an enemy from day one . JESUS chose HIM , for one reason , THAT the scripture would be fulfilled and HE betrayed by one from within . BUT that one from within , are as many today , THEY profess HIM by mouth , OH but their hearts are not FOR HIM or OF HIM . We need to do two things . SIMPLY teach JESUS as our ETERNAL SECURITY , and always remind as did the early church , CONTINUE IN HIM or you will be CAST OUT . KEEP it real simple . IF we simply stick to the words of JESUS then the summation is , JESUS IS OUR ETERNAL HOPE and SALVATION , but if one continues not in HIM if one continues not in the goodness of GOD , prepare to be cast out . IF Paul warned and JESUS warned , and peter and others warned about both the goodness and severity o GOD then rest assured I WILL TOO . Let us have all trust and faith and hope in HE ALONE and let all always remember and behold both the goodness of GOD , which is the GIFT of faith IN JESUS and always remember the severity of GOD too . FOR if one holds not their confidence and hope in CHRIST , Firm to the end , but is moved away from the hope of the gospel MY dear friends they will WAIL on the day of the LORD . AND on that note , if we would simply follow the SPIRIT then we would not fulfill the lusts of the flesh . And if any does err , CONFESS and Forsake the sin . A more deadly thing is occurring in the land and churches , the masses are fast being turned unto another false hope , an inclusive hope , a deadly go spell of such death that its end is more than mere death , its end is the SECOND DEATH . Let all amour up fast and let none be taken in with this grave and deadly error of the inclusive wicked . ITS a soul taker for sure . DEFEND the true faith , and expose the deadly false faith in the idea of this deadly inclusive love which does so trod JESUS under foot . We have a major battle brewing , and this fountain of death from the all inclusive deadly waters is deathly bitter and will kill one dead if they sip from its brown river . PS , its river is brown for a reason . It comes from ROME and we all know that when Rome decreed something it was known as a BULL . the papal bull . GOOD NAME for it , ME THINKS , fori know what comes from the south end of a north bound bull and its not bull we want to be eating from .
|
|
|
Post by John on Jan 22, 2020 10:01:09 GMT -5
The prophesy mentioned Judas as one that Jesus lost. John 17:12
|
|
|
Post by solid on Jan 22, 2020 10:14:33 GMT -5
The prophesy mentioned Judas as one that Jesus lost. John 17:12
You mean Jesus said he lost none but Judas?
|
|