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Post by Giller on Jan 23, 2020 10:46:59 GMT -5
I think what I will do is address these one at a time.
John 10:27-29 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all: and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
This is a good one to start with. What does Jesus say about his sheep? They hear him and they follow him. If you do those two things, you are eternally secure. If you don't, none of the rest of this applies to you. These conditions must be met to hear and follow or verses 28 and 29 don't matter. I would like to add to this. Here are those verses, but with the previous verses added. Joh 10:25-29 (25) Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. (26) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. Yes you must continue to follow him and hear him, amen to that. Joh 15:8-9 (8) Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. (9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. You must continue in his love. And notice that at the beginning of John 10:25 it says that ye believe not. We must believe and continue to believe, it is not once you believed you no longer have to continue to believe. Yes no man can pluck you out of his hand, but can you pluck yourself out of his hand, by no longer believing, and no longer continuing in his love? Remember that Christ is not just the author of our faith but the finisher of it as well. It is faith at the beginning, and faith until the end.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 23, 2020 10:48:13 GMT -5
John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
What did we just read about those people that come to Jesus, that the Father gave him? They hear him and they follow him. This isn't saying that every single person that prays a sinner's prayer can never lose salvation. A lot of followers of Jesus walked away when he gave them instructions that thought were too hard to bear. It was not so much God casting them away as they stopped following Jesus.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 23, 2020 10:53:54 GMT -5
I just noticed her list has John 10:28 twice. First it has John 10:27-29 and then John 10:28 by itself, I guess for good measure? lol
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 23, 2020 11:06:31 GMT -5
John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
The key is to understand that when Jesus says they hear, he doesn't just mean they acknowledge he said something, but they observe it. He is speaking of his sheep that follow him. Jesus is giving assurance, but only to his followers. Those who hear but don't obey, like that house built on the sand, will fall.
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 23, 2020 11:09:38 GMT -5
I am going to leave the other verses for later, as I have some things to do for now. There is already plenty to talk about.
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Post by Rejoice on Jan 23, 2020 11:22:53 GMT -5
I just read your statement of faith, and don't know why it would upset anyone? It is almost all scripture! Do people really believe we can keep sinning and go to heaven?
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Post by Rejoice on Jan 23, 2020 11:37:56 GMT -5
I had heard some say that you can't lose salvation, and I read your sof a long time ago, but till this morning, I didn't realize how crazy they are about it.
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 11:55:49 GMT -5
Thank you for that. This is exactly what John was looking for is someone to address this using scripture. Just so you know, we can give just as many verses that show you can lose salvation. Some are in the Statement of Faith. When I have a little more time, I will look up all of them in context and respond to them. I saw its in. The statement of faith if people are denying Christ s ability to save sinners the power of the holy spirit the new birth ,and trying to judge Jesus and him as a saviour and that nothing can separate us from his love I have no place here if this idea is in the statement of faith..its an issue of unblief both by people who despise the mercy of God abuse his grace and by people who don't believe Jesus is the Messiah basically..thank you my friend. I think I'm out of here to preach to the lost the good news ..this argument just shows that people who agree with it don't have faith in Jesus,, and or are confusing false converts bad behaviour with what Jesus has done ..I won't waste my time. 👋 Who is saying Jesus can't save sinners? Calm down. Take a deep breath. Unless you mean that Jesus saves from hell but leaves us as slaves to sin, I don't know what you are taking about?
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 12:04:46 GMT -5
I saw its in. The statement of faith if people are denying Christ s ability to save sinners the power of the holy spirit the new birth ,and trying to judge Jesus and him as a saviour and that nothing can separate us from his love I have no place here if this idea is in the statement of faith..its an issue of unblief both by people who despise the mercy of God abuse his grace and by people who don't believe Jesus is the Messiah basically..thank you my friend. I think I'm out of here to preach to the lost the good news ..this argument just shows that people who agree with it don't have faith in Jesus,, and or are confusing false converts bad behaviour with what Jesus has done ..I won't waste my time. 👋 This is the kind of emotional, knee jerk comments we see from OSAS believers. There is no basis in fact. It is all emotion. Can you take the time to look at scripture objectively? I was looking forward to discussing this rationally with someone, and I thought that was you. It reminds me of how people who are brainwashed into a cult act when their beliefs are changed. They won't even listen to what you have to say for fear it might force them to reconsider what they believe. All emotions. Even abandons what she posted before discussing it. This is really sad. She probably goes to a church that makes these convoluted arguments and she repeats them with no thought she was taught wrong.
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 12:08:44 GMT -5
I had heard some say that you can't lose salvation, and I read your sof a long time ago, but till this morning, I didn't realize how crazy they are about it. Yes, they really believe you can live a lifestyle of sin and go to heaven. This Bloodbought person 777 mentioned just comes right out and tells it, while most try to be more deceptive. They will say that maybe the sinful person was never saved, but they all really believe the same thing.
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 12:11:21 GMT -5
I just read your statement of faith, and don't know why it would upset anyone? It is almost all scripture! Do people really believe we can keep sinning and go to heaven? It upsets them anyone says a Christian can endanger their soul through sin. They stop up their ears to the scriptures. I stopped going to Worthy because they kept promoting that osas mess.
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 12:13:33 GMT -5
Thank you for that. This is exactly what John was looking for is someone to address this using scripture. Just so you know, we can give just as many verses that show you can lose salvation. Some are in the Statement of Faith. When I have a little more time, I will look up all of them in context and respond to them. I saw its in. The statement of faith if people are denying Christ s ability to save sinners the power of the holy spirit the new birth ,and trying to judge Jesus and him as a saviour and that nothing can separate us from his love I have no place here if this idea is in the statement of faith..its an issue of unblief both by people who despise the mercy of God abuse his grace and by people who don't believe Jesus is the Messiah basically..thank you my friend. I think I'm out of here to preach to the lost the good news ..this argument just shows that people who agree with it don't have faith in Jesus,, and or are confusing false converts bad behaviour with what Jesus has done ..I won't waste my time. 👋 In case you are still reading, I hope you change your mind. If you can't defend your beliefs, you are going on blind faith to something you were told.
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Post by Rejoice on Jan 23, 2020 12:24:01 GMT -5
I had heard some say that you can't lose salvation, and I read your sof a long time ago, but till this morning, I didn't realize how crazy they are about it. Yes, they really believe you can live a lifestyle of sin and go to heaven. This Bloodbought person 777 mentioned just comes right out and tells it, while most try to be more deceptive. They will say that maybe the sinful person was never saved, but they all really believe the same thing. Thanks Solid. I was surprised by such a crazy reaction is all. It is one thing to believe a real follower of Jesus stays saved, but different saying you can do anything and stay saved. When I read your beliefs, it only says if you continue in sin, you are putting your soul in danger. Who would think you would see a person flip out like that over that? It is cultish.
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Post by Saved Forever on Jan 23, 2020 12:35:36 GMT -5
Don't judge us all by that one outburst. I am looking at what everyone is saying.
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Post by solid on Jan 23, 2020 12:41:53 GMT -5
Don't judge us all by that one outburst. I am looking at what everyone is saying. You are welcome to join in the discussion.
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