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Post by John on Dec 26, 2019 19:44:26 GMT -5
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:26-28
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it, and to keep it. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:15-17
And the LORD God said, it is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. Genesis 2:18
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. Genesis 2:21-22
For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man. 1 Corinthians 11:8-9
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:17-18.
There are a few things I want to point out. First of all, in the first passage I posted, it gives a general overview of the creation of man, and mentions that God created man male and female. This is not saying God created the man and woman at the same time. It is not a contradiction to the passage in Genesis chapter 2. Genesis chapter 2 gives us more details. It shows that God created the man first, and then the woman.
From what it says, God did not create man to just exist and lay around in a hammock all day long. God gave him a job to do. He was to dress and keep the garden. God created man with a purpose. Work itself is not a curse. God said that it is not good that the man should be alone, so he created woman for the man. The reason woman was created was to be a help meet and companion to the man. She was not created to be a competitor to the man. This is very important, because it should give everyone a good idea as to why we are having so many of the problems we have in the world today. We have gone away from God's order.
It is reinforced in the New Testament passage I posted from 1 Corinthians that the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. What changed as a result of the fall? What came easy for the man was now difficult. The ground was now cursed, and man would have to deal with thorns and thistles. Farming, earning a living, etc., would all become more difficult. In the case of the woman, she was always created as a help meet for a husband. The husband was always the head of the wife, but now, they would have strife that did not exist in the past. As a result, God had to come out and declare that the wife was to obey her husband. There are many scriptures I can add to this in the New Testament that reinforces what I just said, and shows that none of this has changed as a result of the cross and the fact we are under the New Covenant. To be in God's designed order of things, we need to return to our Biblical roles. Until we do that, we will deal with negative consequences.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 7:31:26 GMT -5
I don't believe we are under the curse any more, in Christ. Even the curse of death will be defeated and even now the dead are raised. When I was giving birth to my daughter, I realized that through Christ I was no longer under the curse and took no meds and the birth was so easy...not painful, just muscles doing their work. And cursing the ground and toiling are symbolic of not being in the rest of God. But we see how fallen men rule over women in many instances, and in some of the heathen nations, and we know it's a sad state of affairs that exists in this fallen world.
In the kingdom of heaven there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free. And Christian men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church...that means the woman submits to the headship of her husband voluntarily and the husband doesn't subjugate and force her to be obedient as the fallen world does, but dwells with the wife according to knowledge and understanding of her needs, while the woman is to respect the headship of her husband.
But I wonder if these things are only while we are still in the flesh, to be practical and orderly....and in a way to fulfill all righteousness, and avoid the appearance of evil, maybe somewhat like Jesus didn't 'need' to be baptized, but submitted Himself to being baptized anyhow. Remember, Adam & Eve had not yet eaten of the Tree of Life after they were created.....but we have and are eating of the Tree of Life as believers. The woman is to be a help "meet" for her husband...that means she is not an inferior creature to the man, but created for a different role than the man in general for purposes of this temporary earthly life.
"Religion" subjugates and oppresses women, whereas the woman needs to simply respect her husband in voluntary obedience to Christ, out of His spirit and nature within, meekness. There is a world of difference between the two.....the difference between Life and death.
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Post by John on Dec 27, 2019 16:22:33 GMT -5
I don't believe we are under the curse any more, in Christ. Even the curse of death will be defeated and even now the dead are raised. When I was giving birth to my daughter, I realized that through Christ I was no longer under the curse and took no meds and the birth was so easy...not painful, just muscles doing their work. And cursing the ground and toiling are symbolic of not being in the rest of God. But we see how fallen men rule over women in many instances, and in some of the heathen nations, and we know it's a sad state of affairs that exists in this fallen world. In the kingdom of heaven there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free. And Christian men are to love their wives as Christ loves the church...that means the woman submits to the headship of her husband voluntarily and the husband doesn't subjugate and force her to be obedient as the fallen world does, but dwells with the wife according to knowledge and understanding of her needs, while the woman is to respect the headship of her husband. But I wonder if these things are only while we are still in the flesh, to be practical and orderly....and in a way to fulfill all righteousness, and avoid the appearance of evil, maybe somewhat like Jesus didn't 'need' to be baptized, but submitted Himself to being baptized anyhow. Remember, Adam & Eve had not yet eaten of the Tree of Life after they were created.....but we have and are eating of the Tree of Life as believers. The woman is to be a help "meet" for her husband...that means she is not an inferior creature to the man, but created for a different role than the man in general for purposes of this temporary earthly life. "Religion" subjugates and oppresses women, whereas the woman needs to simply respect her husband in voluntary obedience to Christ, out of His spirit and nature within, meekness. There is a world of difference between the two.....the difference between Life and death.
If we were eating of the tree of life today, our physical bodies would never die. If we were no longer under the curse, nobody would ever get sick. Women are commanded to obey their husbands. The husband shouldn't have to force his wife to obey, because in an ideal world, she would do so because it is the right thing to do, as we shouldn't have to be forced to submit to Christ with the threat of hell fire, but for some, that is the only way they will obey.
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 5:22-24
LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel: But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands. Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 3:1-6
If the curse was really lifted, we would be living in conditions like they were in the garden, nobody would ever get sick, there would be no strife of any kind, and nobody would ever die. I have heard others claim that the curse was lifted, but they cannot explain why people ever get sick and die. One day, the entire curse will no longer have any effect on us, but in the meantime, it still does. It makes no sense to say that in the future, we won't die, but for now, only the rest of the curse is lifted.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 18:58:11 GMT -5
<< The husband shouldn't have to force his wife to obey, because in an ideal world, she would do so because it is the right thing to do, as we shouldn't have to be forced to submit to Christ with the threat of hell fire, but for some, that is the only way they will obey. >>
Er..? Yikes brother.....are you saying husbands should force their wives to obey them? But that isn't how Jesus manifests His headship, no, no.
Edit: I almost forgot..I think you are the one who thinks it's okay for a man to spank his wife...? So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Post by frienduff on Dec 27, 2019 19:10:17 GMT -5
We ought to keep the original pattern . SO this goes for any sin or error . IF one commits it , let them be shamed , let them be rebuked and corrected .
If they heed a brother or sister has been won .
Watchful is telling truth over at worthy , But its so sad most wont hear it .
I tried to put a few fat worthies on your posts sister .
But most of them , don't want to hear a word of rightly divided truth .
Worthy tiene mas problemas que un libro de matimaticas .
And that is saying it lightly .
Lambs gotta make their last stand now . Or fall for the lie many will .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 27, 2019 19:14:36 GMT -5
<< The husband shouldn't have to force his wife to obey, because in an ideal world, she would do so because it is the right thing to do, as we shouldn't have to be forced to submit to Christ with the threat of hell fire, but for some, that is the only way they will obey. >> Er..? Yikes brother.....are you saying husbands should force their wives to obey them? That isn't how Jesus manifests His headship, no, no. Don't see this wrong . But its time for the church to do an all out correction move and now . Put the fear of GOD into those in error , do something . DO SOMETHING . IF one errs they must repent , they must see the grave danger . IF the church is to OBEY CHRIST and it clearly says the woman is to obey her husband , I speak of godly men , then by all means correct whoever errs . IF the husband errs let him be corrected IF the wife errs , LET her be corrected . SOUND it out for all to hear . IF anyone , child , man , woman , husband , wife , ERR , DO EVERYTHING through fear or etc , TO CORRECT that soul .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 27, 2019 19:17:00 GMT -5
There are no chauvnists on this site . IF there were , I WOULD REBUKE THEM ALL .
YES I WOULD .
But if anyone errs , THEY MUST with upmost speed and urgency be corrected . THE TIME for the original pattern to be set up and taught , IS NOW .
We , this generation and many before it , HAVE been Dumbed down .
And many will not make it . Many are not going to make it . AND the blood of none will be on my hands .
IF one errs , REBUKE FAST .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 27, 2019 19:21:13 GMT -5
The time has come and now is , when many are flat out no longer gonna heed a word I have to say .
WE have simply entered a time of the great divide . And believe me , its gonna be real evident to the true lambs , JUST WHO IS TRULY OF JESUS and who aint .
Here is the news of the day . WE SIMPLY In a massive falling away which has and is spiraling beyond measure .
The lambs will as they have done through all ages , HEED ONLY JESUS and THUS HEED ONLY TRUTH .
The rest will become hardened only more and only more .
An all out plea is being made , And its one I have long given . GO back to bibles only and follow ONLY the biblical JESUS and the pattern the apostels set .
Places are tanking way too fast for me to keep up with . We GOTTA make our last stand now , ONLY IF OUR STAND IS NOT ON CHRIST and the BIBLE , THEN ITS ALL VAIN .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 27, 2019 19:31:29 GMT -5
<< The husband shouldn't have to force his wife to obey, because in an ideal world, she would do so because it is the right thing to do, as we shouldn't have to be forced to submit to Christ with the threat of hell fire, but for some, that is the only way they will obey. >> Er..? Yikes brother.....are you saying husbands should force their wives to obey them? But that isn't how Jesus manifests His headship, no, no. Edit: I almost forgot..I think you are the one who thinks it's okay for a man to spank his wife...? So I guess I shouldn't be surprised. One thing I can say for sure and for certain . I am so greatful I am a single man . I can focus on just doing all to edify and or correct the church . PS , husbands don't spank your wives , but do REBUKE any that does err . Leaders rebuke any husband that follows not the pattern of JESUS . The only place in the bible that I see where the Spanking rod is to be used is on children . But what I say to one , I say to all , if any wife errs , REBUKE THEM doing all through fear or etc , to get them corrected fast . IN fact may the church do this to any member that does err .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 19:35:25 GMT -5
<< If the curse was really lifted, we would be living in conditions like they were in the garden, nobody would ever get sick, there would be no strife of any kind, and nobody would ever die. I have heard others claim that the curse was lifted, but they cannot explain why people ever get sick and die. One day, the entire curse will no longer have any effect on us, but in the meantime, it still does. It makes no sense to say that in the future, we won't die, but for now, only the rest of the curse is lifted. >>
Brother....the enemy has been defeated but we do not yet see all things put under the feet of Christ....because we are in a war...the enemy doesn't want to surrender.....ground has to be taken by force, spiritual warfare....the kingdom of heaven taken by force....the promised land entered little by little. We often have to fight in order to see the things that Jesus died for manifested. People do get healed in the name of Jesus, the dead are even raised, this woman had no pain in childbirth, men enter the rest of God and He can miraculously provide, when it is His will to do it that way and when we have faith to believe.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 19:44:13 GMT -5
I fully believe the scriptures on husbands and wives....however, I'm resolved that I will no longer listen to any teachings about that until the teacher has demonstrated that he understands and teaches first how husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Had about enough of carts pulling horses over the years, sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 20:03:30 GMT -5
We ought to keep the original pattern . SO this goes for any sin or error . IF one commits it , let them be shamed , let them be rebuked and corrected . If they heed a brother or sister has been won . Watchful is telling truth over at worthy , But its so sad most wont hear it . I tried to put a few fat worthies on your posts sister . But most of them , don't want to hear a word of rightly divided truth . Worthy tiene mas problemas que un libro de matimaticas . And that is saying it lightly . Lambs gotta make their last stand now . Or fall for the lie many will . And some of them seem to be confusing the works/grace question with the OSAS question.....they are two different issues being conflated together, so that is adding to the confusion. And OSAS is really stuck like glue in their minds. I'm too tired to tackle it any more tonight and not sure how long I want to argue with them. Understanding is something we have to grow in, so maybe some will learn better in the future. Bless you frienduff. |
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Post by John on Dec 27, 2019 21:14:55 GMT -5
<< The husband shouldn't have to force his wife to obey, because in an ideal world, she would do so because it is the right thing to do, as we shouldn't have to be forced to submit to Christ with the threat of hell fire, but for some, that is the only way they will obey. >> Er..? Yikes brother.....are you saying husbands should force their wives to obey them? But that isn't how Jesus manifests His headship, no, no. Edit: I almost forgot..I think you are the one who thinks it's okay for a man to spank his wife...? So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Post by John on Dec 27, 2019 21:17:55 GMT -5
<< If the curse was really lifted, we would be living in conditions like they were in the garden, nobody would ever get sick, there would be no strife of any kind, and nobody would ever die. I have heard others claim that the curse was lifted, but they cannot explain why people ever get sick and die. One day, the entire curse will no longer have any effect on us, but in the meantime, it still does. It makes no sense to say that in the future, we won't die, but for now, only the rest of the curse is lifted. >> Brother....the enemy has been defeated but we do not yet see all things put under the feet of Christ....because we are in a war...the enemy doesn't want to surrender.....ground has to be taken by force, spiritual warfare....the kingdom of heaven taken by force....the promised land entered little by little. We often have to fight in order to see the things that Jesus died for manifested. People do get healed in the name of Jesus, the dead are even raised, this woman had no pain in childbirth, men enter the rest of God and He can miraculously provide, when it is His will to do it that way and when we have faith to believe.
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Post by John on Dec 27, 2019 21:22:07 GMT -5
I fully believe the scriptures on husbands and wives....however, I'm resolved that I will no longer listen to any teachings about that until the teacher has demonstrated that he understands and teaches first how husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Had about enough of carts pulling horses over the years, sorry.
LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 1 Peter 3:1,2
The husbands can be completely disobedient to the Word of God, and the wife is still accountable to God to obey her unbelieving husband.
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