Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Jan 27, 2020 13:15:30 GMT -5
I want to interject one of my thoughts here... it is through this conversation that I am realizing just how much Feminism was taught to me even though I consider myself more submissive than a lot of women at this point in my life. It's what is taught in the public school system and we have no idea it's even going on. I was also somewhat taught this from the way I was raised. My father handed over his Headship role to my mother before I was even born. Even though she was not the worst woman in the world at trying to rule and control but she did have enough of that in her to do. I never saw what it was like for a man to be the Head. I spoke on this subject with my earthly Father just this morning. He admits that he was not the Leader in our home and when he tried to take that position back years later he felt it caused too many issues in his marriage and therefore he decided it was too difficult. This is the example I was raised with. Just so sad that so many homes (probably most) are out of order and not running as God had designed. We all suffer from this!
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 27, 2020 13:35:46 GMT -5
I want to interject one of my thoughts here... it is through this conversation that I am realizing just how much Feminism was taught to me even though I consider myself more submissive than a lot of women at this point in my life. It's what is taught in the public school system and we have no idea it's even going on. I was also somewhat taught this from the way I was raised. My father handed over his Headship role to my mother before I was even born. Even though she was not the worst woman in the world at trying to rule and control but she did have enough of that in her to do. I never saw what it was like for a man to be the Head. I spoke on this subject with my earthly Father just this morning. He admits that he was not the Leader in our home and when he tried to take that position back years later he felt it caused too many issues in his marriage and therefore he decided it was too difficult. This is the example I was raised with. Just so sad that so many homes (probably most) are out of order and not running as God had designed. We all suffer from this! |
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Post by joseph on Jan 27, 2020 14:09:02 GMT -5
Thanks be to Yahweh through grace and faith in Jesus Christ for your testimony and faith in seeking Him and His Way . Yes, seeing man as the head of woman, faithfully representing Jesus and the people of Yahweh, Yahweh's Way, is rare... Also it is rare to see a man, whose head (Ruler, Lord, Teacher, Master, Shepherd, Friend, Judge, Government) is Jesus as it is written and shown all through Yahweh's Word, Plan and Purpose always : Jesus is the head of man, and Yahweh is the head of Jesus. Then man is the head of woman. FANTASTIC WHEN SEEN RIGHT ! HALLELUYAH ! (what IS impossible with men, is possible with Yahweh (God the Sovereign Creator) ) So even with no good examples, even with no examples , in our lives to see and to learn from and to follow/ imitate/ know God's Way, God PROVIDED a Perfect Provision for us all, even BEFORE He Created the Universe, the World, and all people and all life. So then , let us all trust in Him and rely on Him now, moment by moment, once for all time, and each and every day.... amen. I want to interject one of my thoughts here... it is through this conversation that I am realizing just how much Feminism was taught to me even though I consider myself more submissive than a lot of women at this point in my life. It's what is taught in the public school system and we have no idea it's even going on. I was also somewhat taught this from the way I was raised. My father handed over his Headship role to my mother before I was even born. Even though she was not the worst woman in the world at trying to rule and control but she did have enough of that in her to do. I never saw what it was like for a man to be the Head. I spoke on this subject with my earthly Father just this morning. He admits that he was not the Leader in our home and when he tried to take that position back years later he felt it caused too many issues in his marriage and therefore he decided it was too difficult. This is the example I was raised with. Just so sad that so many homes (probably most) are out of order and not running as God had designed. We all suffer from this! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 8:01:24 GMT -5
To those that believe wives are the chattel of their husbands, I can only say that the analogy of legally sanctioned slaves and prostitutes is perfectly accurate in that case, and that the reason for the strong objection to it must be that it pricked some consciences. A Godly marriage relationship is not one of exploiter and exploited. And a woman is still accountable to God over and above her husband.......because she BELONGS TO THE LORD. Goodness we don't even own our own children, they belong to the Lord and parents are only their caretakers and guardians for a brief time on this earth. How on earth does a man think he owns his wife?
The flesh always over-corrects, it always will throw the baby out with the bathwater...that's what feminists do and that's what they do in the churches but in the opposite direction....who are not in good company, being in agreement with cults and the fallen world (cursed) as well as judaizers, and dare i say it, even gorillas on this issue, who are possessive (selfish) of the females in their troupe, and really this is like most all animals in the animal kingdom (brute beasts made to perish...carnal).
Jesus is not coming to marry an immature Bride....He is looking for one who will rule and reign with Him, and even now He has given her His authority on the earth hasn't He. But just like in the churches that are unable to grow up their followers, so that they remain carnal and have not the mind of Christ....carnal men will likewise keep their wives as children and slaves.....this is not an accurate representation of Christ and the church. A woman is to be an help MEET for her husband...an help MEET for Adam could not be found among the carnal beasts.
So any ladies reading, let's endeavour to grow up in the Lord and have the mind of Christ on this issue, and stop thinking of ourselves as chattel and household slaves. But yes be in subjection to our husbands, under their covering and headship....we need to follow the proper rank and order, it is right and just for us to do this now. Much like the church is under the covering of the authority of Christ....we do not walk out from under the authority of our husbands (unless we have the authority of God, which is a higher authority than that of our husband...and why Abigail was not wrong to do what she did)....but that was Eve's error in the Garden, she acted independently without the authority of her husband or God.
But I strongly encourage us all to walk out from under the bushel that is over our heads in the churches in these days, once we pass our infancy they have a strange way of keeping us from growing any taller.
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777
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Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 28, 2020 8:12:10 GMT -5
To those that believe wives are the chattel of their husbands, I can only say that the analogy of legally sanctioned slaves and prostitutes is perfectly accurate in that case, and that the reason for the strong objection to it must be that it pricked some consciences. A Godly marriage relationship is not one of exploiter and exploited. And a woman is still accountable to God over and above her husband.......because she BELONGS TO THE LORD. Goodness we don't even own our own children, they belong to the Lord and parents are only their caretakers and guardians for a brief time on this earth. How on earth does a man think he owns his wife? The flesh always over-corrects, it always will throw the baby out with the bathwater...that's what feminists do and that's what they do in the churches but in the opposite direction....who are not in good company, being in agreement with cults and the fallen world (cursed) as well as judaizers, and dare i say it, even gorillas on this issue, who are possessive (selfish) of the females in their troupe, and really this is like most all animals in the animal kingdom (brute beasts made to perish...carnal). Jesus is not coming to marry an immature Bride....He is looking for one who will rule and reign with Him, and even now He has given her His authority on the earth hasn't He. But just like in the churches that are unable to grow up their followers, so that they remain carnal and have not the mind of Christ....carnal men will likewise keep their wives as children and slaves.....this is not an accurate representation of Christ and the church. A woman is to be an help MEET for her husband...an help MEET for Adam could not be found among the carnal beasts. So any ladies reading, let's endeavour to grow up in the Lord and have the mind of Christ on this issue, and stop thinking of ourselves as chattel and household slaves. But yes be in subjection to our husbands, under their covering and headship....we need to follow the proper rank and order, it is right and just for us to do this now. Much like the church is under the covering of the authority of Christ....we do not walk out from under the authority of our husbands (unless we have the authority of God, which is a higher authority than that of our husband...and why Abigail was not wrong to do what she did)....but that was Eve's error in the Garden, she acted independently without the authority of her husband or God. But I strongly encourage us all to walk out from under the bushel that is over our heads in the churches in these days, once we pass our infancy they have a strange way of keeping us from growing any taller.
The use of the word chattel is feminist propaganda, but Eve was given by God to Adam to be his help-meet. She did belong to him in the sense she was a gift to him from God. The woman was created FOR the man. There is no getting around that. |
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777
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Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 28, 2020 8:34:24 GMT -5
To those that believe wives are the chattel of their husbands, I can only say that the analogy of legally sanctioned slaves and prostitutes is perfectly accurate in that case, and that the reason for the strong objection to it must be that it pricked some consciences. |
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Post by solid on Jan 28, 2020 8:48:49 GMT -5
To those that believe wives are the chattel of their husbands, I can only say that the analogy of legally sanctioned slaves and prostitutes is perfectly accurate in that case, and that the reason for the strong objection to it must be that it pricked some consciences. I don't see my wife as being chattel. I don't know of anyone who does. But this comparison to slaves and prostitutes is going too far! What in the world are you teaching watchful? Those are terrible things to say about wives who don't see things like you do. |
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 28, 2020 8:59:43 GMT -5
I want to focus in on this comment. I find it offensive to refer to housewives as prostitutes and I am not a woman. I find it offensive as a husband and father of 2 daughters. What specifically makes these women legal prostitutes in your world view? They see themselves as belonging to their husbands and obey him? Does God make the church a prostitute by the fact he purchased us with his blood and owns us? Are we his chattel? You know he chastises us when we disobey him. Is he abusing us? To me, what you are saying isn't pricking my conscience at all. I find the comments offensive. I don't see my wife as being chattel. I don't know of anyone who does. But this comparison to slaves and prostitutes is going too far! What in the world are you teaching watchful ? Those are terrible things to say about wives who don't see things like you do. |
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 28, 2020 9:05:32 GMT -5
If I look at things like Watchful does, didn't Abigail become as David's prostitute when she became just one of his wives?
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Dezi
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by Dezi on Jan 28, 2020 13:12:47 GMT -5
I never felt like a Chattel when I was married. I do think you belong to each other when you are married. You are his help meet and he is your protector among many other roles. I don't think that takes away the fact that we are created for man. Maybe I am missing something here but I don't agree with Watchful's comment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 13:56:04 GMT -5
I never felt like a Chattel when I was married. I do think you belong to each other when you are married. You are his help meet and he is your protector among many other roles. I don't think that takes away the fact that we are created for man. Maybe I am missing something here but I don't agree with Watchful's comment. Folks here have a wrong mindset that a wife is the chattel of her husband....one person said that point blank, and then took took down their post. It showed how people are really thinking......proving the analogy to have been accurate. Which was an analogy of that WRONG mindset, NOT an analogy of a properly understood biblical and Godly marriage relationship. I hope that helps. |
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777
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Post by 777 on Jan 28, 2020 13:59:31 GMT -5
I never felt like a Chattel when I was married. I do think you belong to each other when you are married. You are his help meet and he is your protector among many other roles. I don't think that takes away the fact that we are created for man. Maybe I am missing something here but I don't agree with Watchful's comment. Folks here have a wrong mindset that a wife is the chattel of her husband....one person said that point blank, and then took took down their post. It showed how people are really thinking......proving the analogy to have been accurate. Which was an analogy of that WRONG mindset, NOT an analogy of a properly understood biblical and Godly marriage relationship. I hope that helps. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 14:07:51 GMT -5
If husbands are to be as Christ is to the church and Jesus took on the form of a servant to the church, then where does ownership of women as chattel come in? Does a servant consider that he owns those he is serving? Of course not. That is hardly a mindset that is honouring to wives. But you are far from alone, many have the same wrong understanding, without even realizing it....women as well as men. These passages below help us to understand better about Christlike authority, as opposed to worldly (fallen/under the curse) authority...they were a great help to me in understanding Christlike authority and hope that some will take the time to ponder them prayerfully.
Phl 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men
I would ask husbands whether they have the mind of Christ on this and serve their wives, or whether they have a mindset that Christlike headship means they are to lord it over their wives.
Mat 20:24-27
And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles (heathen/fallen) exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant
Luk 22:25-27
And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 28, 2020 14:11:19 GMT -5
If husbands are to be as Christ is to the church and Jesus took on the form of a servant to the church, then where does ownership of women as chattel come in? Does a servant consider that he owns those he is serving? Of course not. That is hardly a mindset that is honouring to wives. But you are far from alone, many have the same wrong understanding, without even realizing it....women as well as men. These passages below help us to understand better about Christlike authority, as opposed to worldly (fallen/under the curse) authority...they were a great help to me in understanding Christlike authority and hope that some will take the time to ponder them prayerfully. Phl 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men
I would ask husbands whether they have the mind of Christ on this and serve their wives, or whether they have a mindset that Christlike headship means they are to lord it over their wives. Mat 20:24-27
And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles (heathen/fallen) exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant
Luk 22:25-27
And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
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