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Post by John on Dec 29, 2019 12:08:22 GMT -5
Yes because we do not yet "see" everything put under His feet....even though everything HAS BEEN put under His feet. Kind of like...do you believe you are seated in heavenly places with Christ...? Wait, what...? How can that be since I am sitting on this chair here in my dining room? And the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world....but how can that be since He wasn't slain until only about 2000 years ago? So we need to ask God for understanding of these kinds of things. No, the law of the jungle is exactly what we see in the fallen world that is under the wrath of God....under the curse.....fallen. This should not be the case with those who have been translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. The husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, ie, sacrificially, while the woman is to respect her husband's headship and follow his leading. Sin, sickness, oppression, death...all because of the curse of the fall.....but Jesus went around HEALING ALL who were sick and oppressed as well as RAISING THE DEAD. So clearly He had authority to undo the curses of the fall....it is why He came....to destroy the works of the devil. Jesus doesn't force His rule over anyone....no, our submission to Him as our Head is voluntary, otherwise it is not HIS gospel we are obeying but Phariseeical religion. His ways are not man's ways....they are not the ways of this fallen world and flesh. In the meantime, we are still under the curse. If we don't obey Jesus, we are chastised, which is being told to obey or else.
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Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Dec 29, 2019 13:47:06 GMT -5
Why does this seem very confusing to me?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 13:53:01 GMT -5
I fully believe the scriptures on husbands and wives....however, I'm resolved that I will no longer listen to any teachings about that until the teacher has demonstrated that he understands and teaches first how husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Had about enough of carts pulling horses over the years, sorry.
LIKEWISE, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 1 Peter 3:1,2
The husbands can be completely disobedient to the Word of God, and the wife is still accountable to God to obey her unbelieving husband.
No that's not what I'm saying....I'm saying I won't listen to anyone unless I'm satisfied they know what they are talking about and understand the relationship between husbands and wives in the Lord. It's common sense not to take your Cadillac to a bicycle shop and let bicycle technicians work on your car. You would want to be sure they are qualified car mechanics before you let them anywhere near your car. Marriage is a union, a relationship...it is not wife go sit in this corner and fulfill your role (crack the whip, or else!) and husband go sit in the other corner across the room and fulfill your role (crack the whip, or else!)...what a sad and lonely marriage that is....but rather it is two living their lives together as one. I would much rather see these admonitions and teaching concerning marriage taught together and be satisfied that the one teaching actually understands God's vision for the whole marriage relationship and isnt' just regurgitating a letter which kills. This is supposed to be a walk of FAITH working through LOVE, is it not? |
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Post by John on Dec 29, 2019 13:56:26 GMT -5
Why does this seem very confusing to me?
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Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Dec 29, 2019 14:27:26 GMT -5
Why does this seem very confusing to me?
I don't guess it should matter to me if I am not allowed to remarry.... Which I still find very difficult to take in. Why would God order me to be alone for the rest of my life when I am in need of companionship due to having agoraphobia? God knew I would make these mistakes and he still loves me right? Why would he decide that I need to be alone to suffer as well? I just don't understand! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:39:20 GMT -5
Why does this seem very confusing to me? Probably because my words are being twisted and misunderstood, to begin with. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:45:03 GMT -5
It is designed to confuse. I have all the scriptures on this topic, in the Old and New Testament. I will try to find time to post them later.
I don't guess it should matter to me if I am not allowed to remarry.... Which I still find very difficult to take in. Why would God order me to be alone for the rest of my life when I am in need of companionship due to having agoraphobia? God knew I would make these mistakes and he still loves me right? Why would he decide that I need to be alone to suffer as well? I just don't understand! I dont know what your situation is with regard to the possibility of remarriage....but why don't you wait until the Lord heals your agoraphobia before you even consider it......take one step at a time......you wouldn't want to marry for reasons of co-dependancy, that wouldn't be healthy. God can heal you and sort you out...don't give up. I believe agoraphobia is often (maybe always) due to shame....when I was unmarried and pregnant I experienced a touch of agoraphobia, and after a while I realized it had to do with being ashamed ......and no way to hide it with my big belly.  You keep seeking the Lord sis. |
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Post by John on Dec 29, 2019 15:29:26 GMT -5
It is designed to confuse. I have all the scriptures on this topic, in the Old and New Testament. I will try to find time to post them later.
I don't guess it should matter to me if I am not allowed to remarry.... Which I still find very difficult to take in. Why would God order me to be alone for the rest of my life when I am in need of companionship due to having agoraphobia? God knew I would make these mistakes and he still loves me right? Why would he decide that I need to be alone to suffer as well? I just don't understand!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 16:59:48 GMT -5
Why does this seem very confusing to me?
You are wrongly lumping me in with feminism and some other teaching and person you know....so no wonder people are getting confused, when I have already said that I fully accept what the scriptures say about wives being in submission. What I'm trying to address is your apparent thinking that husbands might have to force their wives to be in submission....and also where you said in a previous discussion that it's okay for husbands to hit (spank) their wives. |
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Post by frienduff on Dec 30, 2019 0:53:17 GMT -5
Tongue in cheek brother, to make a point. If you have eternal life, then you must be eating of the Tree of Life. Something else to ponder......not everyone will even have to taste death. Sure sounds to me like Jesus undid the curse. The curse of death that God put on mankind is the last enemy to be destroyed.....and Jesus overcame it when He rose from the dead. It HAS BEEN PUT UNDER HIS FEET....though we do not yet "see" all things put under His feet. Rom 5:12-18
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1Co 15:20-22
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Abraham went to paradise when he died, as did Moses, yet they died physically. We are not eating of the tree of life today or we wouldn't die physically. If the curse was already done away with, there would be no effects of it on Christians including sickness and physical death. In essence we sure are eating and drinking of the tree of life . FOR who soever eats of my flesh and drinks of my blood , shall never die . JESUS is the tree of life . HE IS . Now our physical bodies will die or be changed , that part is very true . But whosoever drinks of HIM shall never thirst and never die . Just be encouraged butero . I think this is what watchful means .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 30, 2019 0:55:23 GMT -5
Why does this seem very confusing to me? For now dear sister , try and ignore this . Understanding will come in time . Sometimes things are hard to be understood at first and there are things we will also never fully grasp in this life . You just be encouraged and with great joy , just keep reading the bible . There is no need for any of us to strive over this . You are LOOOVED sister dezi .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 30, 2019 1:00:29 GMT -5
It is designed to confuse. I have all the scriptures on this topic, in the Old and New Testament. I will try to find time to post them later.
I don't guess it should matter to me if I am not allowed to remarry.... Which I still find very difficult to take in. Why would God order me to be alone for the rest of my life when I am in need of companionship due to having agoraphobia? God knew I would make these mistakes and he still loves me right? Why would he decide that I need to be alone to suffer as well? I just don't understand! Sister dezi , do I seem depressed all the time , or joyful . I got good and wonderful news for you . I TOO cannot be remarried . I have been single for many , many years , YET I GOT ALL JOY . Do not let this cause you to sorrow , that you cant be remarried , SEE IT IS GAIN in OBEIDANCE unto JESUS . The LORD , He is the one who gives me all joy , and TRULY I have found the truth of His words . HAPPY is the one who hears and does my sayings . SO don't focus on what seems as loss , SEE IT AS GAIN . FOR TRULY IT IS DEAR SISTER . and the gain I speak of is the gain of all joy and happiness in obedience unto CHRIST . OH it flows like a river sister . IT FLOWS like a gentle stream of honey and oil . Honey to the taste and fresh smooth oil to the head . THE JOY of serving , of obeying JESUS , IS great joy .
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Post by frienduff on Dec 30, 2019 1:05:51 GMT -5
It is designed to confuse. I have all the scriptures on this topic, in the Old and New Testament. I will try to find time to post them later.
You are wrongly lumping me in with feminism and some other teaching and person you know....so no wonder people are getting confused, when I have already said that I fully accept what the scriptures say about wives being in submission. What I'm trying to address is your apparent thinking that husbands might have to force their wives to be in submission....and also where you said in a previous discussion that it's okay for husbands to hit (spank) their wives. I am guessing we wont be seeing you marching on the streets of Canada with the feminist movment . YEAH I know dear sister , YOU ARE NOT like that , AT ALL . One . men , never spank your wives . BUT TWO , do rebuke any that does err, doing all to ensure their safety . Three , let no man or woman ever deprive the other . But four , if one does , simply correct but never rape . It is wrong for a man to ever once force himself upon his wife . IT is also wrong for a man or a woman to deprive the other . But two wrongs , will never make a right . just as it is wrong to deprive , it is wrong to rape as well .
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Post by John on Dec 30, 2019 5:43:52 GMT -5
It is designed to confuse. I have all the scriptures on this topic, in the Old and New Testament. I will try to find time to post them later.
You are wrongly lumping me in with feminism and some other teaching and person you know....so no wonder people are getting confused, when I have already said that I fully accept what the scriptures say about wives being in submission. What I'm trying to address is your apparent thinking that husbands might have to force their wives to be in submission....and also where you said in a previous discussion that it's okay for husbands to hit (spank) their wives.
As far as use of force goes, you compared the husband and wife relationship to Christ and the church. How does Jesus force us to obey him? By way of chastisement. That means that we are punished when we disobey. If I am using your logic, and we are to use the comparison of Christ and the church to husbands and wives, then husbands should chastise their wives if they do not obey them. Again, I am saying that is true if I am going by your comparison. I have not taken a position on how husbands should react to a wife who is in rebellion against their authority thus far. In reality, there is not a lot they can do, except leave it to the Lord to handle.
That is wonderful if you fully accept what the scriptures say about wives being in submission, but the way you worded things, it did not come across that way. I could go back through all of your posts and show you why it doesn't come across that way, but I do not see the value in doing that.
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Post by John on Dec 30, 2019 5:50:26 GMT -5
Abraham went to paradise when he died, as did Moses, yet they died physically. We are not eating of the tree of life today or we wouldn't die physically. If the curse was already done away with, there would be no effects of it on Christians including sickness and physical death. In essence we sure are eating and drinking of the tree of life . FOR who soever eats of my flesh and drinks of my blood , shall never die . JESUS is the tree of life . HE IS . Now our physical bodies will die or be changed , that part is very true . But whosoever drinks of HIM shall never thirst and never die . Just be encouraged butero . I think this is what watchful means .
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You keep seeking the Lord sis.
Let's read our bibles daily my friends