God's Purpose For Creating Man And Woman

I'm sorry brother.....from my end I still disagree with the same points of contention I had raised in this thread.  I don't like being in disagreement, and I dont' like arguing....I would much rather be on the same page with my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I can't pretend to agree with things that I don't believe are right, especially if they are important issues.  And women's issues are important issues....wrong understanding on these issues has caused untold suffering as well as doing great damage to the testimony of the church in front of the world.  I think what has been cleared up is the fact that it was thought I was disagreeing with the whole point of women being in submission in general, whereas I was only disagreeing with some specific things that were being said concerning it.

These are the things I was disagreeing with and still disagree with, if any are interested to start over afresh and try to sort these things out, or if not at least put it on a back burner and consider what I'm trying to say:

1.  That women being in subjection to their husbands was due to the curse of the fall.  The order of authority was established with creation...the woman being made for the man, rather than the man being made for the woman.  Marriage in the beginning with Adam & Eve has always been to show the mystery of Christ and the church.  The marriage relationship is not a curse and was never meant to be a curse....the fact is that the marriage relationship got perverted due to the fall, it was not established by the fall but came before the fall.

2.  That Jesus threatens the church with hellfire, therefore husbands can threaten their wives or 'discipline' them if they aren't compliant with what the husband wants.....this might not have been what John intended to say, I am still not sure....but that is how it came across and still hasn't been clarified, unless I missed it. 

All the warnings of scripture are in spirit and are meant to be received in spirit so that we change inwardly by the washing of the word....and not just change outward behaviour (our own righteousness) due to carnal fear.  The truth is that people can't even hear the warnings apart from the Spirit....just look how many reject the warnings and try to explain them away.....warnings need to be heard and received BY FAITH the same as all of God's holy word.  I just hope it is understood that husbands are not to threaten their wives.  Jesus does not threaten His church, but warns us for our spiritual good....they are not the same thing....threatening is carnal and of a wrong spirit....not the same as the warnings in the word of God.  Threatening is a form of control and manipulation, whereas warnings of scripture have a way of leaving the individual free and autonomous to choose.  Christians are just not to threaten people, as scripture even says.

3.  That a man "spanking" his wife doesn't rise to the same level as spousal abuse.   Have to disagree with this.  I'm glad that John clarified that he doesn't think it is right, however, it needs to be called what it is and treated accordingly....it is spousal abuse and a fast track to destroying and perverting the marriage relationship (as well as harming the well-being of the victim) just the same as any physical violence perpetrated against a spouse does, no matter how the perpetrator tries to justify it.  It's just wrong to compare the "spanking"  of a grown woman, one's wife, with the spanking and disciplining of children....apples and oranges.  Hope this is given some more thought.

In light of scripture, I don't know how you can disagree with the woman being created for the man. It says that plainly in Corinthians. If submission is not due to the fall, the only alternative is it was the original order. 777 is right about Jesus threatening the churches in Rev., like to put out their candlestick

He laid it out using so much scripture, I am not sure what he can add?

You're misunderstanding.  The first sentence of each of the three points in my post is stating what John said...after that I am commenting on why I disagree with his point.  As I wrote at the start of my post I do not disagree with women being in submission to their husbands.  I do disagree that it is because of the fall.....I said exactly what you are saying, that it began because the woman was created for the man.

As for the difference between threatening and what Jesus was doing in Revelation we would first need to understand the difference between flesh and spirit.  You think on that awhile brother.

I wouldn't go relying on logic to try and understand scripture...it never fails to muddy the waters and lead astray.  I know people are tired of me saying it, but it just happens to be true that we need the mind of Christ for these things.  All I can say is that if we consider that Jesus was threatening the church then we are essentially accusing Him of being carnal.  A couple of verses to ponder:

Mat 20:24-28

And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many


Eph 6:9

And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.