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Post by Rejoice on Jan 6, 2020 14:21:17 GMT -5
I am reading through the Bible with you, and read what 777 said. I noticed the same thing. Under the New Testament, do you think we should have the death penalty for serious crimes?
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Post by John on Jan 6, 2020 19:29:31 GMT -5
The nation of Israel was governed by the Law of Moses until they were under the control of the Roman government. As such, they had penalties for breaking the law. You don't find that in the New Testament. God is still holy, and laws dealing with God's standard of holiness still matter, but when it comes to penalties for violations, each nation has to make up their own mind.
My personal opinion is that I support the death penalty for first and second degree murder, if we know the person is guilty, and there is no doubt. That is because the Bible says that when innocent blood is shed, the earth is defiled, and the only way to cleanse the earth is the death of the murderer. Other than that, I am open to a death penalty for very serious violent crimes, like rape of a child or something like that. That is just personal opinion. Again, the New Testament doesn't take a position for or against the death penalty.
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Post by Rejoice on Jan 7, 2020 8:57:39 GMT -5
Thank you. That helps a lot!
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 7, 2020 9:34:44 GMT -5
In America, they used to put armed robbers to death. I don't have any problem with the death penalty for serious and dangerous criminals. It would make things safer for those who are law abiding.
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 7, 2020 9:36:33 GMT -5
It is strange to me how liberals will defend killing unborn babies for convenience and protest executing first degree killers.
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Post by frienduff on Jan 7, 2020 16:20:21 GMT -5
The nations will do as the nations will do . But if ever a vote came up I would not vote for the death penalty , nor against it . The question really should be this instead . As a born again , JESUS following christain , If anyone of us was assigned to pull that switch and cause the death of any man would we do it . The answer should be a resounding NO . There is no way under heaven that if they say , hey frienduff you have been selected to adminstir the means in which to kill the criminal. I would flat out say , ARREST me but I WONT DO IT . That should be the question . And because I could not kill another , I refuse to ask or have anyone do it in my stead . I vote not for it , nor against it , I stay out of this .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 7, 2020 16:24:43 GMT -5
In America, they used to put armed robbers to death. I don't have any problem with the death penalty for serious and dangerous criminals. It would make things safer for those who are law abiding. The question is , COULD you point blank KILL a person , EVEN if under the law they were guilty of death . Ponder this . If they said , hey triple sevens you are ordered to take the life of this criminal . ALL I would want to do is witness JESUS to that lost soul . I could not take the life of a guilty man , no matter what the crime . I was guilty according to the law of one far higher than man of death by his law , and HE GAVE ME LIFE IN JESUS INSTEAD . I could not take the life of another no matter how guilty they are of any crime . THIS should be the question we are asking . And I cant do it .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 7, 2020 16:25:52 GMT -5
It is strange to me how liberals will defend killing unborn babies for convenience and protest executing first degree killers. Yes , its a tanked society for sure . For sure .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 7, 2020 16:27:33 GMT -5
Triple sevens brings up a wonderful reminder . And it shows how reprobate the minds of many truly are in this world . First I could not even kill one who deserved death . But with that being said , these can let go those guilty of death YET butcher babies who have done no right or wrong . talk about a wacked out reprobate mind .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 7, 2020 16:33:58 GMT -5
The nation of Israel was governed by the Law of Moses until they were under the control of the Roman government. As such, they had penalties for breaking the law. You don't find that in the New Testament. God is still holy, and laws dealing with God's standard of holiness still matter, but when it comes to penalties for violations, each nation has to make up their own mind.
My personal opinion is that I support the death penalty for first and second degree murder, if we know the person is guilty, and there is no doubt. That is because the Bible says that when innocent blood is shed, the earth is defiled, and the only way to cleanse the earth is the death of the murderer. Other than that, I am open to a death penalty for very serious violent crimes, like rape of a child or something like that. That is just personal opinion. Again, the New Testament doesn't take a position for or against the death penalty.
Let the question be this . could you really kill a person even if that person deserved it ten fold . As for me , According to the laws OF GOD was guilty and quite guilty of death ten thousand fold . YET , I got the sentence of LIFE , given by grace in JESUS CHRIST . If GOD could forgive one like me who was massively guilty of HIS LAW , you wont catch me taking the life of another no matter how guilty they are . OH I KNOW they deserve death . But I deserved a death far worse , known as the lake of fire death . And yet , I REJIOCE in the LIFE given me in CHRIST JESUS . There is one thing I could do , If the govt put a man under the sentence of death , I would sure want HIM to KNOW JESUS before HE DIED . JESUS knew those men with him were guilty of their sentence . HE KNEW THAT . BUT HE OFFERED LIFE , as in eternal life . I know many deserve death , I know many that deserve double death sentences . But how on earth can a man like me , ever put another to death when I myself was worthy of such a death sentence myself . Man , I would just have to pray they get convicted and repent , LIKE the murdering thief did on that cross next to JESUS . I think we should really ponder these things .
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Post by frienduff on Jan 7, 2020 16:41:29 GMT -5
I am sure some here know that I don't even believe in self defense . That even if one came to kill me , the only thing I should do is pray LORD forgive them . And yet society , old friends , even some family members see me as dangerous or a danger to society . Why do I bring this up . cause it will get even worse in the days ahead . MEN like me will be seen as terroists , haters , monsters of society and of the world .
They will find the lambs worthy of nothing but death . AND YET all I desired was LIFE FOR THEM . YALL LET THIS SINK IN REAL DEEP . They are hating and will soon be in support of killing the ones who truly loved them and desired life for them . Talk about total reprobation . BUT that is what this sorry satanic all inclusive dead fake love unity move is. ITS hate , its murder and the Spirit behind it is , THE ENEMEY OF GOD and man .
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Post by Rejoice on Jan 7, 2020 19:45:15 GMT -5
Thank you all for your replies. I was thinking about how the law said to put witches and homosexuals and adulterers and many others to death, and was wondering if the church believes we should still be doing that today? It seems that all of you agree that there is nothing in the Bible that says all governments are obligated to do that, and that was my main question. I am not sure how I feel about the death penalty for convicted killers? I suppose that if it was a family member or loved one that was murdered, I would likely want justice, but nobody knows till they are in that position. I thank you all for your help, and for this ministry.
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Post by John on Jan 7, 2020 21:29:03 GMT -5
Could I actually execute a convicted killer if I had to? That is an interesting question. I suppose nobody knows for sure until they are in that position, so I can only guess. I know Frienduff says absolutely not, but for me, I am not so sure. I am not a passivist. I would defend myself, my wife, my family, friends, etc., against someone attacking us, and I could kill someone in self defense, no problem. I could kill an enemy combatant in time of war to defend my country, with no feeling I was doing anything wrong. I wouldn't enjoy harming anyone. I would never hurt anyone for no reason. I am the type that would be defending someone being attacked. I would try to assist the victim of a criminal, I wouldn't be the criminal. I want to make it clear that if I could go my whole life without harming anyone, that is my desire. The older I get, the more precious life is to me. I don't even kill bugs that aren't posing a threat, like spiders that are outside the house, because they are God's creatures. I am not a vegetarian, but I also am not someone who would hunt for sport. For food if I had to, but not for sport.
Anyway, back to the death penalty. My position is based on my interpretation of scripture, and the one that has influenced my thinking on this subject the most is found in Numbers 35. Look at verses 31 and 33.
Numbers 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.
Numbers 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
Knowing this truth, I believe that God is telling me not to be sympathetic towards a person who took an innocent life, so I won't be. I am not more righteous than God. If God says that, who am I to do otherwise? In addition, the very land is defiled every time a murder takes place. It was brought up about unborn babies, and there have been something like 1.3 million killed every year in this country since 1973. This land is defiled, and I fear for America for that reason alone. When anyone sheds innocent blood, they defile the land, and the only way the land is cleansed is when the murderer is put to death. With that being the case, I support the death penalty for murderers.
Could I be the executioner if I knew the person was tried and convicted of murder, and there was no doubt they were guilty? I believe that I could. Would I get any joy in it? Absolutely not! It would be something I would see as necessary, just like killing in a time of war to defend the nation is just something that is necessary, not something enjoyable. That is how I look at this. I do not believe that any nation has to adopt the same laws that ancient Israel had. I am not looking down on those who could not fight in a war, defend themselves or carry out an execution of a murderer. Nobody in their right mind would get joy in doing those things. I wish it was never necessary, but we are living in a fallen world, and we have wars and we have murders and violent crimes. But I do not look down on Frienduff for how he feels. I don't see his views as dangerous, unless everyone felt that way. Then it could be a problem, because who would defend our country or defend the defenseless, but for one person to feel that way, it is no big deal. If a person sees something as sinful and unclean, it is wrong for them. I respect the rights of conscientious objectors. I am just not in that camp.
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Post by solid on Jan 7, 2020 21:47:32 GMT -5
I never had strong feelings one way or the other about the death penalty. I couldn't put anyone to death! That doesn't mean they are wrong to do it. It is hard to argue with those scriptures. I would defend myself or my family. I guess if the nation was at war, I would defend it. We would be in trouble if nobody would, but carrying out an execution would be hard to do.
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 8, 2020 7:54:29 GMT -5
In America, they used to put armed robbers to death. I don't have any problem with the death penalty for serious and dangerous criminals. It would make things safer for those who are law abiding. The question is , COULD you point blank KILL a person , EVEN if under the law they were guilty of death . Ponder this . If they said , hey triple sevens you are ordered to take the life of this criminal . ALL I would want to do is witness JESUS to that lost soul . I could not take the life of a guilty man , no matter what the crime . I was guilty according to the law of one far higher than man of death by his law , and HE GAVE ME LIFE IN JESUS INSTEAD . I could not take the life of another no matter how guilty they are of any crime . THIS should be the question we are asking . And I cant do it . Executioner is not a job I want, but I could do it.
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