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Post by letmebefrank on Jan 11, 2020 19:48:00 GMT -5
And You can Not Change It!Is this True?Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you! that's what the Bibles Says! Your Thoughts.I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come.God has unlimited authority and infinite power.
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Post by letmebefrank on Jan 11, 2020 19:54:28 GMT -5
And Does Immanuel Jesus blood on the cross have the right to say it is Finished! And what does that mean coming out of the lips of Christs last words mean??
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Post by letmebefrank on Jan 11, 2020 19:57:32 GMT -5
It seems man has a lot to say or not say about the meaning. Enjoy
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Post by letmebefrank on Jan 11, 2020 20:05:18 GMT -5
Is your salvation fixed? MMM think so >>Before I formed you in the womb I knew you
I think so! Enjoy
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Post by letmebefrank on Jan 11, 2020 20:07:01 GMT -5
Is GodJesus omnipotent>>YES!!
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Post by John on Jan 12, 2020 0:07:58 GMT -5
Is your salvation fixed? MMM think so >>Before I formed you in the womb I knew you I think so! Enjoy
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Dezi
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Post by Dezi on Jan 12, 2020 8:22:03 GMT -5
Is your salvation fixed? MMM think so >>Before I formed you in the womb I knew you I think so! Enjoy Are you saying that God only knew some people before they were born and these will be the people that hear His voice and respond unto Salvation? |
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Post by John on Jan 12, 2020 9:06:08 GMT -5
Is your salvation fixed? MMM think so >>Before I formed you in the womb I knew you I think so! Enjoy Are you saying that God only knew some people before they were born and these will be the people that hear His voice and respond unto Salvation?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 9:21:59 GMT -5
Scripture says in 1 Peter 1:2 that we are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God". I don't believe this means that God decided in the beginning who to save and who not to save....but that He KNEW (fore-knew) who would respond to the gospel and remain in it. Hence He "knew" (fore-knew) us before we were formed. Seems like foreknowledge of the end would not be needed if it was all a done deal and fixed from the beginning so to speak.
Anyway, it is impossible to put ourselves in the shoes of so great a God and say we understand Him completely....bible says who can fathom the Lord....who can know what it would be like to know the end from the beginning.....we are only seeing through a glass darkly in any case. This is not something to worry ourselves over, but God may see fit to increase our understanding of it as we go along.
I do worry about a fatalistic view of things though....why bother to pray for souls to be saved, or for souls to remain in Christ for that matter, why bother to do anything at all if everything has already been "decided" from the beginning.
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Post by John on Jan 12, 2020 9:35:17 GMT -5
Scripture says in 1 Peter 1:2 that we are "elect according to the foreknowledge of God". I don't believe this means that God decided in the beginning who to save and who not to save....but that He KNEW (fore-knew) who would respond to the gospel and remain in it. Hence He "knew" (fore-knew) us before we were formed. Seems like foreknowledge of the end would not be needed if it was all a done deal and fixed from the beginning so to speak. Anyway, it is impossible to put ourselves in the shoes of so great a God and say we understand Him completely....bible says who can fathom the Lord....who can know what it would be like to know the end from the beginning.....we are only seeing through a glass darkly in any case. This is not something to worry ourselves over, but God may see fit to increase our understanding of it as we go along. I do worry about a fatalistic view of things though....why bother to pray for souls to be saved, or for souls to remain in Christ for that matter, why bother to do anything at all if everything has already been "decided" from the beginning.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 12, 2020 11:43:12 GMT -5
When God called me he spoke the very same exact words to me that He spoke to Jeremiah. He even confirmed it in the mouth of three in a personal convo, one of which could not speak english and took me to the same scripture... again. then the fourth person was the preacher on sunday opening up with that scripture for the sermon.
when and after God said this to me and i had backslid God also spoke the words to me found here:
1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.
1Ch 28:10 Take heed now; for the LORD hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it.
So in conclusion, NO your salvation is not fixed. you can choose to go another way, i.e. apostate. parabanio translated transgression in the greek is used twice and the root means to walk... in this instance it means to walk away from God. its the word used to describe judas iscariots transgression in acts either 1 or two, i think in acts 1. you can make the choice to walk away from God, abandon the faith, go another way, go your own way.. etc.
if we are going to try to use one passage from one of the prophets to prove salvation is set in stone... then lets take a look at all scripture and take a peek at what another prophet in the OT said, or rather God Almighty said:
Eze 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
Eze 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
Eze 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 33:16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
Eze 33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
Eze 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
so in conclusion scripture refutes the OP claim that its all fixed and there is nothing you can do. God Himself has already said otherwise, and the OP is promoting unbiblical teaching. this thread should be removed, the only reason i do not remove it is because John has already seen it and He left it up. FOr whatever reason he has, i will trust his judgment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 13:41:54 GMT -5
When God called me he spoke the very same exact words to me that He spoke to Jeremiah. He even confirmed it in the mouth of three in a personal convo, one of which could not speak english and took me to the same scripture... again. then the fourth person was the preacher on sunday opening up with that scripture for the sermon. when and after God said this to me and i had backslid God also spoke the words to me found here: 1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. 1Ch 28:10 Take heed now; for the LORD hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it. So in conclusion, NO your salvation is not fixed. you can choose to go another way, i.e. apostate. parabanio translated transgression in the greek is used twice and the root means to walk... in this instance it means to walk away from God. its the word used to describe judas iscariots transgression in acts either 1 or two, i think in acts 1. you can make the choice to walk away from God, abandon the faith, go another way, go your own way.. etc. if we are going to try to use one passage from one of the prophets to prove salvation is set in stone... then lets take a look at all scripture and take a peek at what another prophet in the OT said, or rather God Almighty said: Eze 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Eze 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; Eze 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. Eze 33:16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. Eze 33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. Eze 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. so in conclusion scripture refutes the OP claim that its all fixed and there is nothing you can do. God Himself has already said otherwise, and the OP is promoting unbiblical teaching. this thread should be removed, the only reason i do not remove it is because John has already seen it and He left it up. FOr whatever reason he has, i will trust his judgment. Amen, yes, it's error.....though I mostly have mixed feelings about removing posts that are in error, since it's also an opportunity to discuss and sharpen our swords and help others learn why it is wrong, and perhaps the one posting will learn too. I guess it is a judgment call and depends on the situation. |
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Post by 2fw8212a on Jan 12, 2020 16:54:04 GMT -5
,,,I do worry about a fatalistic view of things though... why bother to pray for souls to be saved, or for souls to remain in Christ for that matter, why bother to do anything at all if everything has already been "decided" from the beginning.
Imagine if Peter, Paul, John all thought like that?!
I cannot see them saying:
God will save them anyway, I will not bother exhorting and writing letters.
But what would happen?!
God would choose other people who were willing to obey Him (exhorting and writing letters).
That is how God operates on Earth, He uses and works through people to accomplish His goals.
Now, when people are being used by Satan they do not think like that, they must act in favor of his kingdom (and of course, Satan demands obedience from them, but most of them are simply blind and obey Satan without knowing).
Then, we are in a place that:
If we do nothing, we are helping Satan.
But if obey the Spirit of God, we are helping the Lord.
This is not about God needing us or not.
The Lord is giving us an honor for us to help Him and be a participant of His great plan.
You should rejoice!
The question now is: Who are you willing to obey?
“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?” - Romans 6:16
“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always
abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.” - 1 Corinthians 15:58
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one
and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other...” - Matthew 6:24
“And behold, I am coming quickly,
and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” - Revelation 22:12
Working with God is an honor but Satan is deceiving many into thinking that they do not need to work with God because everything is already fixed.
“He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.” - Matthew 12:30
That is serious. I hope no one is biting that bait. |
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Post by John on Jan 12, 2020 18:05:41 GMT -5
When God called me he spoke the very same exact words to me that He spoke to Jeremiah. He even confirmed it in the mouth of three in a personal convo, one of which could not speak english and took me to the same scripture... again. then the fourth person was the preacher on sunday opening up with that scripture for the sermon. when and after God said this to me and i had backslid God also spoke the words to me found here: 1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. 1Ch 28:10 Take heed now; for the LORD hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it. So in conclusion, NO your salvation is not fixed. you can choose to go another way, i.e. apostate. parabanio translated transgression in the greek is used twice and the root means to walk... in this instance it means to walk away from God. its the word used to describe judas iscariots transgression in acts either 1 or two, i think in acts 1. you can make the choice to walk away from God, abandon the faith, go another way, go your own way.. etc. if we are going to try to use one passage from one of the prophets to prove salvation is set in stone... then lets take a look at all scripture and take a peek at what another prophet in the OT said, or rather God Almighty said: Eze 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. Eze 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Eze 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; Eze 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. Eze 33:16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. Eze 33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. Eze 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. so in conclusion scripture refutes the OP claim that its all fixed and there is nothing you can do. God Himself has already said otherwise, and the OP is promoting unbiblical teaching. this thread should be removed, the only reason i do not remove it is because John has already seen it and He left it up. FOr whatever reason he has, i will trust his judgment. Amen, yes, it's error.....though I mostly have mixed feelings about removing posts that are in error, since it's also an opportunity to discuss and sharpen our swords and help others learn why it is wrong, and perhaps the one posting will learn too. I guess it is a judgment call and depends on the situation.
letmebefrank , I have a thread in the Visitors Doctrinal Section directly dealing with OSAS. Even though we reject it, if someone wants to actually take the time to discuss it using scripture in context, and following the guidelines I mentioned at the start of that thread, I am allowing it in that one place. If you feel strongly about OSAS, why not go over there and explain why your beliefs are correct? Post scripture that you believe backs you up, and how you interpret it.
I know you are getting your beliefs from preachers you listen to, because you can reference things, but do not seem to be able to explain it. You just reference things indirectly. What kind of church do you belong to? Who are the preachers that you have found are the biggest influences on your beliefs? Have you taken the time to read the Bible all the way through? Have you taken the time to carefully examine the things the people you follow have said in light of scripture? I mean, OSAS sounds good, but other than the fact it feels good to think you can do anything and never lose salvation, and people can use human reasoning to defend OSAS, like talking about the relationship between a Father and his children, adopted children, how many times you can be born again, and similar things, do you have scripture, in context, that actually tells us straight out that once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, your salvation is unconditional and there is nothing you can do, including unbelief, to lose it? If you do have good scriptural arguments, why not accept the challenge and discuss it in that thread I mentioned? What are you afraid of? Are you concerned that if you have to actually discuss it using scripture in context, without personal attacks and catch phrases, you can't win? Are you concerned it might force you to reconsider your beliefs?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 19:08:57 GMT -5
Is your salvation fixed? MMM think so >>Before I formed you in the womb I knew you I think so! Enjoy Do you believe then, that everyone is saved the moment they are born? In other words we don't have to take a sing step to become a believer in Jesus? |
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