Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jan 12, 2020 23:03:39 GMT -5
Amen, yes, it's error.....though I mostly have mixed feelings about removing posts that are in error, since it's also an opportunity to discuss and sharpen our swords and help others learn why it is wrong, and perhaps the one posting will learn too. I guess it is a judgment call and depends on the situation.
letmebefrank , I have a thread in the Visitors Doctrinal Section directly dealing with OSAS. Even though we reject it, if someone wants to actually take the time to discuss it using scripture in context, and following the guidelines I mentioned at the start of that thread, I am allowing it in that one place. If you feel strongly about OSAS, why not go over there and explain why your beliefs are correct? Post scripture that you believe backs you up, and how you interpret it.
I know you are getting your beliefs from preachers you listen to, because you can reference things, but do not seem to be able to explain it. You just reference things indirectly. What kind of church do you belong to? Who are the preachers that you have found are the biggest influences on your beliefs? Have you taken the time to read the Bible all the way through? Have you taken the time to carefully examine the things the people you follow have said in light of scripture? I mean, OSAS sounds good, but other than the fact it feels good to think you can do anything and never lose salvation, and people can use human reasoning to defend OSAS, like talking about the relationship between a Father and his children, adopted children, how many times you can be born again, and similar things, do you have scripture, in context, that actually tells us straight out that once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, your salvation is unconditional and there is nothing you can do, including unbelief, to lose it? If you do have good scriptural arguments, why not accept the challenge and discuss it in that thread I mentioned? What are you afraid of? Are you concerned that if you have to actually discuss it using scripture in context, without personal attacks and catch phrases, you can't win? Are you concerned it might force you to reconsider your beliefs?
i felt as it would be justified but i do not always know where you stand(exactly)... however, over time i have come to be able to trust when you do/dont do something there is a reason and often times its something i was not seeing.
I am also totally willing to discuss it in regards to how scriptures posted in this thread contradict to the stance found in the OP and title of this thread. It is my prayer that the eyes ears and hearts of participants here be opened and willing to accept truth and that The Holy Spirit would lead everyone into this truth. I pray that any error in belief have light shine upon it. Amen.
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Cletus
Senior Member
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Cletus on Jan 12, 2020 23:40:19 GMT -5
Is your salvation fixed? MMM think so >>Before I formed you in the womb I knew you I think so! Enjoy Do you believe then, that everyone is saved the moment they are born? In other words we don't have to take a sing step to become a believer in Jesus? and if thats the case... why pray? there are all kinds of false teachings that stem from this. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 8:12:30 GMT -5
,,,I do worry about a fatalistic view of things though... why bother to pray for souls to be saved, or for souls to remain in Christ for that matter, why bother to do anything at all if everything has already been "decided" from the beginning.
Imagine if Peter, Paul, John all thought like that?!
I cannot see them saying:
God will save them anyway, I will not bother exhorting and writing letters.
But what would happen?!
God would choose other people who were willing to obey Him (exhorting and writing letters).
That is how God operates on Earth, He uses and works through people to accomplish His goals.
Now, when people are being used by Satan they do not think like that, they must act in favor of his kingdom (and of course, Satan demands obedience from them, but most of them are simply blind and obey Satan without knowing).
Then, we are in a place that:
If we do nothing, we are helping Satan.
But if obey the Spirit of God, we are helping the Lord.
This is not about God needing us or not.
The Lord is giving us an honor for us to help Him and be a participant of His great plan.
You should rejoice!
The question now is: Who are you willing to obey?
“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?” - Romans 6:16
“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always
abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.” - 1 Corinthians 15:58
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one
and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other...” - Matthew 6:24
“And behold, I am coming quickly,
and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.” - Revelation 22:12
Working with God is an honor but Satan is deceiving many into thinking that they do not need to work with God because everything is already fixed.
“He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.” - Matthew 12:30
That is serious. I hope no one is biting that bait.Amen. I think probably that most who believe that everything has been "fixed" from the beginning don't even realize that this is the logical end of believing that way, they just haven't though it through to its conclusion, so to speak. The foreknowledge of God is not an easy concept to grasp....but it is easy to go astray on these things. And OSAS is another example where some have gone astray in not rightly dividing some of the promises in scripture that are not actually unconditional but are based on God's foreknowledge. Those promises are stated based on the hopeful assumption that the one reading will remain in Christ to the end...even though it is always possible to fall away. They really are promises addressed to those who will remain in Christ to the end, and they don't apply to those who won't...might be another way of saying it. But until the LORD gives the understanding, it's better to just let things like this topic simmer on a back burner for as long as necessary, rather than trying to form our own understanding....there is an aspect of understanding truth whereby we have a part in "buying" it over time. It's not fast food service but a carefully and slowly cooked meal that the Lord is giving us one course at a time, and slowly digested too. Our hearts are being tested by all these things as well...people tend to believe what they want to believe sometimes because it suits their flesh nature instead of denying it....we need to examine ourselves along the way. |
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