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Post by Julie on Jan 14, 2020 16:43:26 GMT -5
Not meaning to betray my sex, but I don't understand those arguments that we aren't under the Genesis curse anymore so the rule over part doesn't apply? How do we eat from the tree of life? Where is it? I know it is said to be spiritual, but its over my head! To the person making those claims, are you aging?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 18:37:18 GMT -5
Julie, wives are to be subject to the headship of their husbands. But not because of the curse. Because Eve was made for Adam before the fall. Marriage is supposed to portray the blessing of the relationship between Christ and the church....it is not supposed to portray a curse. Let me ask you a question, assuming you know the Lord.....do you have eternal life? If the answer is yes, then you are no longer under the curse of the fall. And headship does not mean lording it over the wife any more than pastors are to lord it over the sheep in their care. There is a world of difference between spiritual authority and fleshly authority...and they that are in the flesh cannot please the Lord. Rom 5:19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.We who are in Christ are not in the fall any more. Sure we may still suffer under some of the effects of the fall....and battle them....since even though everything has been put under the feet of Christ, we not yet SEE everything put under His feet. But the sick may be healed, the oppressed may be delivered, the dead may be raised...even though we do not yet see all the sick healed or all the dead raised etc...the point is that we have the victory over the curses of the fall in Christ. I hope that is helpful sister. I am finished with this topic for now and don't intend to be pursuing it any further at this time.
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Post by John on Jan 14, 2020 18:43:18 GMT -5
Not meaning to betray my sex, but I don't understand those arguments that we aren't under the Genesis curse anymore so the rule over part doesn't apply? How do we eat from the tree of life? Where is it? I know it is said to be spiritual, but its over my head! To the person making those claims, are you aging? Hello Julie. I am happy that you stopped by, and you are welcome anytime. I don't share the same opinion that Watchful does. If you read through that very long thread, you know that, but since your question was to her, as to why she believes as she does, I am content to leave things be. If you want my position or the positions of anyone else in that discussion, feel free to ask a follow up. If you have a follow up for her, feel free to ask. She can reply if she so desires.
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Cletus
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Post by Cletus on Jan 14, 2020 19:03:59 GMT -5
last time i checked men still work hard, those that will work, and women still have pain during child birth, and sssssnakes still crawl on their belly. thorns and weeds still grow too. so ahh... idk what to say about that stuff being passed. i dont think it is. i got a flowerbed full of weeds that that is very scriptural right now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 20:23:57 GMT -5
last time i checked men still work hard, those that will work, and women still have pain during child birth, and sssssnakes still crawl on their belly. thorns and weeds still grow too. so ahh... idk what to say about that stuff being passed. i dont think it is. i got a flowerbed full of weeds that that is very scriptural right now We still live in a fallen world that has been affected by the curse...but we ourselves who are in Christ are no longer under the curse. In this world we shall have tribulation but fear not because Christ has overcome the world.......Cletus don't you know that if you have faith you can say to those weeds and thistles to be cast into sea...or you can tell them to die like Jesus cursed the fig tree. But you don't bother even trying that....because you don't really need to if you can manage to pull a few weeds yourself. But if you had some serious problem that you couldn't deal with yourself I bet you sure would be asking the Lord and believing by faith that you receive what you have need of...right? Or you might leave off growing your own food altogether if the Lord so led you and instead trust God to feed you like He feeds the sparrows....remember Jesus saying that the lilies TOIL NOT, yet God clothes them and we are worth more than the the sparrows and lilies. We are no longer under the curse of the fall.....our sins have been forgiven so why would God be cursing us still? How can anyone who is hid in Christ and been made the righteousness of God and be blessed in Christ, still be under the curse? That would be an oxymoron. Everything that is said about being a blessed people in Christ in scripture are not just pleasant sentimental saying....they are the TRUTH. We are blessed, not cursed. So be blessed!
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Post by John on Jan 14, 2020 21:23:25 GMT -5
last time i checked men still work hard, those that will work, and women still have pain during child birth, and sssssnakes still crawl on their belly. thorns and weeds still grow too. so ahh... idk what to say about that stuff being passed. i dont think it is. i got a flowerbed full of weeds that that is very scriptural right now We still live in a fallen world that has been affected by the curse...but we ourselves who are in Christ are no longer under the curse. In this world we shall have tribulation but fear not because Christ has overcome the world.......Cletus don't you know that if you have faith you can say to those weeds and thistles to be cast into sea...or you can tell them to die like Jesus cursed the fig tree. But you don't bother even trying that....because you don't really need to if you can manage to pull a few weeds yourself. But if you had some serious problem that you couldn't deal with yourself I bet you sure would be asking the Lord and believing by faith that you receive what you have need of...right? Or you might leave off growing your own food altogether if the Lord so led you and instead trust God to feed you like He feeds the sparrows....remember Jesus saying that the lilies TOIL NOT, yet God clothes them and we are worth more than the the sparrows and lilies. We are no longer under the curse of the fall.....our sins have been forgiven so why would God be cursing us still? How can anyone who is hid in Christ and been made the righteousness of God and be blessed in Christ, still be under the curse? That would be an oxymoron. Everything that is said about being a blessed people in Christ in scripture are not just pleasant sentimental saying....they are the TRUTH. We are blessed, not cursed. So be blessed! If I only believed hard enough, I wouldn't have to die physically ever. No more Christians dying ever. I wonder why the Apostle John didn't know about that being free from the curse? He wasn't killed, but died of natural causes. If only someone was with him to set him straight, we would possibly be conversing with him right now. Amazing!
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Post by John on Jan 14, 2020 21:30:39 GMT -5
Not meaning to betray my sex, but I don't understand those arguments that we aren't under the Genesis curse anymore so the rule over part doesn't apply? How do we eat from the tree of life? Where is it? I know it is said to be spiritual, but its over my head! To the person making those claims, are you aging? Julie, consider what you are hearing. Do you honestly believe that if you only have enough faith, you never have to suffer from any of the problems from the curse? Never get sick. If you have children, no pain in child bearing. Those snakes could stand and walk upright instead of crawling around on their belly. That was their curse. Us men could let the ravens feed us. We don't need to work by the sweat of our brow. Consider what you are hearing, and whether or not it makes any sense.
The thing is, we are still all under the curse. We will be till Jesus returns, and then we won't be anymore, but we are for now. Look around you and ask yourself if there is a single person in this world who is able to do what Watchful claims? She makes excuses for that dying thing by saying that we live forever, but that is not in the flesh. Abraham was still alive before Calvary. So was Moses. They were clearly under the curse, so what changed in that regard? When Adam and Eve fell, they were denied access to the fruit of the tree of life, and the way to it will not be restored till after the Lord returns. What she is saying is not true. But you consider it, and make up your own mind. Again, if you have any questions for any of us, feel free to ask.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 8:20:51 GMT -5
We have been translated out of the fallen kingdom (of darkness) into the kingdom of light......we are seated in heavenly places with Christ.....He became a curse for us.....we became the righteousness of God....our lives are hid with Christ in God, so how can we who are in Him be under the curse when He is not? Jesus went around freeing people from the curse....ie, healing all and forgiving, even raising the dead. Ponder this.
But I suggest that we not make up our own minds, since our own minds are not sufficient to understand..."who is sufficient for these things"....but rather have the mind of Christ and seek understanding from Him. I had assumed this was kind of generally understood and fundamental to the faith....but I guess it might be the first time some here have really considered it in this light. Well, God bless you...I'm done here, starting to repeat myself again. (Notice once again that you ARE blessed and not cursed!)
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Post by John on Jan 15, 2020 8:35:42 GMT -5
We have been translated out of the fallen kingdom (of darkness) into the kingdom of light......we are seated in heavenly places with Christ.....He became a curse for us.....we became the righteousness of God....our lives are hid with Christ in God, so how can we who are in Him be under the curse when He is not? Jesus went around freeing people from the curse....ie, healing all and forgiving, even raising the dead. Ponder this. But I suggest that we not make up our own minds, since our own minds are not sufficient to understand..."who is sufficient for these things"....but rather have the mind of Christ and seek understanding from Him. I had assumed this was kind of generally understood and fundamental to the faith....but I guess it might be the first time some here have really considered it in this light. Well, God bless you...I'm done here, starting to repeat myself again. (Notice once again that you ARE blessed and not cursed!) Isn't it strange that we are not under this curse anymore, but people keep getting sick and dying? Isn't it strange that we are not under the Genesis curses anymore, but farmers continue to have to deal with droughts and pests that destroy their crops and must work by the sweat of their brow? If we are not under the curse, how come women, many Christian ladies, not only have pain in child bearing, but some die? None of this makes any sense, but that doesn't stop this false doctrine from being repeated by rebellious women trying to explain why they are not to be ruled over by their husband.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 8:51:06 GMT -5
We have been translated out of the fallen kingdom (of darkness) into the kingdom of light......we are seated in heavenly places with Christ.....He became a curse for us.....we became the righteousness of God....our lives are hid with Christ in God, so how can we who are in Him be under the curse when He is not? Jesus went around freeing people from the curse....ie, healing all and forgiving, even raising the dead. Ponder this. But I suggest that we not make up our own minds, since our own minds are not sufficient to understand..."who is sufficient for these things"....but rather have the mind of Christ and seek understanding from Him. I had assumed this was kind of generally understood and fundamental to the faith....but I guess it might be the first time some here have really considered it in this light. Well, God bless you...I'm done here, starting to repeat myself again. (Notice once again that you ARE blessed and not cursed!) Isn't it strange that we are not under this curse anymore, but people keep getting sick and dying? Isn't it strange that we are not under the Genesis curses anymore, but farmers continue to have to deal with droughts and pests that destroy their crops and must work by the sweat of their brow? If we are not under the curse, how come women, many Christian ladies, not only have pain in child bearing, but some die? None of this makes any sense, but that doesn't stop this false doctrine from being repeated by rebellious women trying to explain why they are not to be ruled over by their husband.
I've already tried to share on that...how we do not yet SEE everything put under His feet...even though the devil is already a defeated foe. And I'm only saying that husbands are not to rule over their wives like the pagans (lost, still fallen) tend to do.....exercising authority/dominion. I brought those scriptures, but we need to seek the Lord for understanding of them. It is just the same as church leadership are not supposed to lord it over their flock....authority in the kingdom of heaven is not like man's ways...God's ways are not like mans' ways, they are higher. Some of us are being carnally minded on these things...we need to come up higher. Comparing spiritual with spiritual in the word of God. We are not to judge by the seeing of the eye and the hearing of the ear......but by FAITH. Heavenly truth trumps the facts on the ground....has victory over what we see with the eye on the ground.
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Post by John on Jan 15, 2020 9:03:04 GMT -5
Isn't it strange that we are not under this curse anymore, but people keep getting sick and dying? Isn't it strange that we are not under the Genesis curses anymore, but farmers continue to have to deal with droughts and pests that destroy their crops and must work by the sweat of their brow? If we are not under the curse, how come women, many Christian ladies, not only have pain in child bearing, but some die? None of this makes any sense, but that doesn't stop this false doctrine from being repeated by rebellious women trying to explain why they are not to be ruled over by their husband.
I've already tried to share on that...how we do not yet SEE everything put under His feet...even though the devil is already a defeated foe. And I'm only saying that husbands are not to rule over their wives like the pagans (lost, still fallen) tend to do.....exercising authority/dominion. I brought those scriptures, but we need to seek the Lord for understanding of them. It is just the same as church leadership are not supposed to lord it over their flock....authority in the kingdom of heaven is not like man's ways...God's ways are not like mans' ways, they are higher. Some of us are being carnally minded on these things...we need to come up higher. Comparing spiritual with spiritual in the word of God. We are not to judge by the seeing of the eye and the hearing of the ear......but by FAITH. Heavenly truth trumps the facts on the ground....has victory over what we see with the eye on the ground. Your excuse was that we don't see all things put under his feet, but that is just an excuse. It makes no sense. It should be all or nothing. Either the entire curse is gone or none of it is gone. You can't pick and choose. At best, you are just teaching things based on speculation.
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Post by Rejoice on Jan 15, 2020 9:48:59 GMT -5
I am happy to let hubby make the decisions. If anything goes wrong, he is responsible. lol.
I am really just learning the Bible, but it doesn't make sense that only part of the curse is gone, and it just happens to be dealing with the husbands being the ruler in the home.
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Post by Julie on Jan 15, 2020 11:05:19 GMT -5
I am happy to let hubby make the decisions. If anything goes wrong, he is responsible. lol.
I am really just learning the Bible, but it doesn't make sense that only part of the curse is gone, and it just happens to be dealing with the husbands being the ruler in the home.
Agree about the curse thing. Some gone but some not manifested yet makes no sense. No more sickness and death would've been nice.
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Post by Julie on Jan 15, 2020 11:16:45 GMT -5
Watchful, thanks for getting back. I just don't think your answer makes sense.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Jan 15, 2020 12:16:07 GMT -5
Julie and Rejoice, welcome. You are both welcome to join and you can have full access. Whether you do or not, you can keep posting here and you have access to the chat.
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