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Post by John on Feb 4, 2020 8:18:27 GMT -5
One quick question. Can you explain the point you were trying to make when you said, "He did not die and then sprinkle his ashes on the Bible?" What are you trying to say with that? I was equating dead ashes to the ink in a bible....an allegory for a dead letter.....the letter that kills. Jesus is alive, not dead...we have a personal living relationship with Him. We serve in the new way of the SPIRIT, not the old way of the letter. I think one thing that can hinder us is wanting to cling to our own righteousness in serving a dead letter rather than submitting to the righteousness of Christ, which is of His Spirit. The more we realize that in me is no good thing and that my heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it, the more we will seek the Lord for His righteousness and His Spirit. The words in the Bible are not dead letters. They are the words of God. The scripture that speaks about the letter killing is speaking of the law of Moses and the Old Covenant. It is not saying that we are not to heed to the letter of the New Covenant. We need the Spirit to properly interpret scripture, but the words of the Bible are alive.
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Post by joseph on Feb 4, 2020 8:50:23 GMT -5
I was equating dead ashes to the ink in a bible....an allegory for a dead letter.....the letter that kills. Jesus is alive, not dead...we have a personal living relationship with Him. We serve in the new way of the SPIRIT, not the old way of the letter. I think one thing that can hinder us is wanting to cling to our own righteousness in serving a dead letter rather than submitting to the righteousness of Christ, which is of His Spirit. The more we realize that in me is no good thing and that my heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it, the more we will seek the Lord for His righteousness and His Spirit. The SAME 'letterl', the SAME message, as written,
IS LIFE to those who are destined to resurrection with Jesus, a fragrant aroma
and
IS DEATH to those who are destined to resurrection to judgment,
to them the WORD, the MESSAGE, the GOD NEWS, and the GOOD NEWS GOSPEL OF JESUS is "the stench of death" ,
at other times warnings about "the letter of the law that kills" ,
and
the "spirit of the law" of and in Christ Jesus that is altogether different, ....
as we (all who are alive in Christ Jesus; perhaps those also who love God and are seeking Him, those who are set apart/sanctified/holy) read TORAH (include all Scripture) , in Christ we are uplifted, chastised, edified, tested, proven, verified, separated from the "vessels of dishonor" .....
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Post by joseph on Feb 4, 2020 8:54:28 GMT -5
True brother, but have we considered that we also need the Holy Spirit in order to test things against His word? Growing in the Spirit is not optional.....it's a matter of life and death because the carnal mind is ENMITY with God.....it will oppose the things that are truly of HIS SPIRIT.....and nor can it perceive the things of His Spirit. Our carnal minds will always lead us in a way that SEEMETH right to it, but leads to death. We need the Holy Spirit, and be relying on Him.....we serve a LIVING God remember. He did not die and then sprinkle his ashes in the bible, but He is alive and called our HELPER....because we always need His help. Suppose for a minute, and see in Scripture, Who (in the Gospels) Walked with the Apostles Daily , Taught THem, Trained Them, Healed Them, Directed Them, and said He Would Never Leave Them, even to the end of the world ?
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Post by frienduff on Feb 4, 2020 9:58:11 GMT -5
Yall , lets not over think too much . Simply read the bible , treasure all that is in it , If we are HIS HE will bring to light what we need to understand . I worry the next thing I might hear is someone saying some are making an idol of out the bible . I don't want to see us go in that direction . We should love and embrace all things written and recorded for our admonition . The WORD of GOD and words inspired by GOD are not dead , MAN is dead and thus cannot see , BUT IN HIM we become alive , alive from the dead and we begin to learn and see Truth . I don't want us to get to the point where everything gets so analyzed as in over analyzed . There is no need to make what is simple complex . If our minds become so analytical , we will just see error , where error is not . an example . I can come and point to the bible , and yet minds can think I am making IT an idol . OR we overworry on things . An example is it never was a statue or idol to have JESUS as HEAD. In fact how on earth can we make JESUS into an idol , WE SHOULD have all affections above on HIM . NOW for the sake of confusion , yeah its better we did change that . But if we start over analyzing things , all we will do is spend our time misunderstanding every little thing and be bickering . When folks say , frienduff you are idolizing the bible , I say WHY SHOULD I NOT LOVE WHAT IS WRITTEN , I MEAN GOD DID INSPIRE IT , RIGHT .. WHY wouldn't we continuously remind to be in it and be reading it . LOVING GOD , is not mouth alone , ITS LOVING EVERYTHING We can know and understand about HIM . The words of GOD are not dead ashes , man is the dead ashes , who needs to be quickened and made alive so as also they can understand the words of GOD rightly divided . The Word and words of GOD are and were always life . For man shall not live by bread alone , BUT BY every word of GOD . But dead ashes cannot grasp LIFE , LEST They become alive , being born again . The letter does kill , but that represents the idea that men can save themselves or jusify themselves By the law . WHEN that is futile . It cannot be done . We can , are and only can be justified and made righteous in Christ . And only HE , can make ALIVE what was dead . For as death came by man , by one man , so LIFE comes by man , JESUS CHRIST . HE makes us alive . Minds are making things too complex . I say we ought to just return to the simple pattern set before us by Christ and the apostels . Lets say , if I , were to receive some great spiritiual understanding , then I go about to teach it to others . Folks , if they aint grasping it , I would leave it be and return to the simple things and find out by examining the doctrine in that bible , WHY one may or may not be recieiving it . IN other words either they are a babe , OR they might even be in error on things , thus cannot grow , OR maybe I was the one in error . Either way in this day and age , by large I notice most don't even have the ORIGINAL PATTERN engrained , YET they somehow sit in a high spiritual cloud . NOW what I just said is not aimed at butero , watchful or any specific , its general reminders .
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Post by frienduff on Feb 4, 2020 10:07:51 GMT -5
I said that , because I have seen that teaching long ago by crafity and deceptive men . They began accusing some of making an idol out of the bible . What a subtile crafity sneaky way to get people to back off trusting in the bible and to start heeding them . Our approach to the bible , should be identical to the true ones . Feast daily , Two of them wrote a very important thing concering the HOLY SCRITPURES . were they making an idol out of scrips . NOPE . The thing is , how can the dead receive life , LEST THE DEAD be made alive in CHRIST . The teaching ought not to be the ink in the bible is dead ashes , but rather MEN are the dead ashes , that need to be sprinkled by the blood of Christ and made alive so too that they can grasp the things that be of GOD . God , the words o GOD are not dead ashes , man is . BUT IN CHRIST we are quickened and can now receive the things that be of GOD . Amen .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2020 11:04:51 GMT -5
I don't know what people here "think" I'm saying.....but all I'm doing is reminding of things that the scriptures say.....hello. So why should that come under attack and suspicion. Without the Holy Spirit we will not be able to understand those scriptures and rightly divide them, nor minister them in a right spirit. Why is that so hard to receive? Isn't it the truth?
We don't want to just have a form of Godliness that denies the POWER (aka SPIRIT)....from such we are to turn away.
And yes there are people who make an idol of the bible, that is a real kind of snare for some....even Jews parade their Torah scroll around and kiss it....I guess to them it's a tangible reminder of God. Wow we can have all the letters and words memorized inside out and backwards and be hunched over our bibles 8 hours a day and still be seeking to establish our own righteousness.
But never mind I expect this post to be misunderstood as well. You all have a blessed day.
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Post by John on Feb 4, 2020 18:16:50 GMT -5
I don't know what people here "think" I'm saying.....but all I'm doing is reminding of things that the scriptures say.....hello. So why should that come under attack and suspicion. Without the Holy Spirit we will not be able to understand those scriptures and rightly divide them, nor minister them in a right spirit. Why is that so hard to receive? Isn't it the truth? We don't want to just have a form of Godliness that denies the POWER (aka SPIRIT)....from such we are to turn away. And yes there are people who make an idol of the bible, that is a real kind of snare for some....even Jews parade their Torah scroll around and kiss it....I guess to them it's a tangible reminder of God. Wow we can have all the letters and words memorized inside out and backwards and be hunched over our bibles 8 hours a day and still be seeking to establish our own righteousness. But never mind I expect this post to be misunderstood as well. You all have a blessed day. I don't think we are misunderstanding you. I think we hear what you are saying and don't agree with a lot of it. For instance, I do not see the written Word as dead letters. I do not believe people are worshipping the Bible. I do not believe there will ever be a single instance where the Spirit will say it is okay to go against the Word of God. Anything a person claims they got from God has to be in full agreement with the written Word. If it does not agree, let God be true and every man a liar. When I say that, I mean let God be true in what He speaks to us through the written Word, not what we claim the Spirit told us when it contradicts the written Word. I have been listening to what you say, and you will say things that sound right, and then you will throw things in that change the meaning of your entire post. I don't believe I am over thinking anything. I believe I know what you are doing. You will say things that will be 90 percent right in a post, but that 10 percent alters the entire thing to where none of it is right.
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Post by John on Feb 4, 2020 18:17:34 GMT -5
Yall , lets not over think too much . Simply read the bible , treasure all that is in it , If we are HIS HE will bring to light what we need to understand . I worry the next thing I might hear is someone saying some are making an idol of out the bible . I don't want to see us go in that direction . We should love and embrace all things written and recorded for our admonition . The WORD of GOD and words inspired by GOD are not dead , MAN is dead and thus cannot see , BUT IN HIM we become alive , alive from the dead and we begin to learn and see Truth . I don't want us to get to the point where everything gets so analyzed as in over analyzed . There is no need to make what is simple complex . If our minds become so analytical , we will just see error , where error is not . an example . I can come and point to the bible , and yet minds can think I am making IT an idol . OR we overworry on things . An example is it never was a statue or idol to have JESUS as HEAD. In fact how on earth can we make JESUS into an idol , WE SHOULD have all affections above on HIM . NOW for the sake of confusion , yeah its better we did change that . But if we start over analyzing things , all we will do is spend our time misunderstanding every little thing and be bickering . When folks say , frienduff you are idolizing the bible , I say WHY SHOULD I NOT LOVE WHAT IS WRITTEN , I MEAN GOD DID INSPIRE IT , RIGHT .. WHY wouldn't we continuously remind to be in it and be reading it . LOVING GOD , is not mouth alone , ITS LOVING EVERYTHING We can know and understand about HIM . The words of GOD are not dead ashes , man is the dead ashes , who needs to be quickened and made alive so as also they can understand the words of GOD rightly divided . The Word and words of GOD are and were always life . For man shall not live by bread alone , BUT BY every word of GOD . But dead ashes cannot grasp LIFE , LEST They become alive , being born again . The letter does kill , but that represents the idea that men can save themselves or jusify themselves By the law . WHEN that is futile . It cannot be done . We can , are and only can be justified and made righteous in Christ . And only HE , can make ALIVE what was dead . For as death came by man , by one man , so LIFE comes by man , JESUS CHRIST . HE makes us alive . Minds are making things too complex . I say we ought to just return to the simple pattern set before us by Christ and the apostels . Lets say , if I , were to receive some great spiritiual understanding , then I go about to teach it to others . Folks , if they aint grasping it , I would leave it be and return to the simple things and find out by examining the doctrine in that bible , WHY one may or may not be recieiving it . IN other words either they are a babe , OR they might even be in error on things , thus cannot grow , OR maybe I was the one in error . Either way in this day and age , by large I notice most don't even have the ORIGINAL PATTERN engrained , YET they somehow sit in a high spiritual cloud . NOW what I just said is not aimed at butero , watchful or any specific , its general reminders . Excellent post Frienduff. I couldn't say it any better, and there is nothing I can really add to it.
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Post by John on Feb 4, 2020 18:20:18 GMT -5
I said that , because I have seen that teaching long ago by crafity and deceptive men . They began accusing some of making an idol out of the bible . What a subtile crafity sneaky way to get people to back off trusting in the bible and to start heeding them . Our approach to the bible , should be identical to the true ones . Feast daily , Two of them wrote a very important thing concering the HOLY SCRITPURES . were they making an idol out of scrips . NOPE . The thing is , how can the dead receive life , LEST THE DEAD be made alive in CHRIST . The teaching ought not to be the ink in the bible is dead ashes , but rather MEN are the dead ashes , that need to be sprinkled by the blood of Christ and made alive so too that they can grasp the things that be of GOD . God , the words o GOD are not dead ashes , man is . BUT IN CHRIST we are quickened and can now receive the things that be of GOD . Amen . A-men and A-men. There are a lot of people who don't want us to place so much emphasis on the Bible who will accuse us of worshipping it like an idol. These are God's Words! When we seek to stand up for them, that is us standing up for thus saith the Lord. It is ludicrous to call that Bible worship. That is what false teachers do, because they believe we need to place more emphasis on what we feel the Spirit is saying to us than what the Spirit already revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures. That can lead to dangerous heretical doctrines.
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777
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Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 5, 2020 8:50:41 GMT -5
I just had a thought. What if we have been taking this wrong, and the great house is our temple instead of the church as a whole? First, we are told that those who are followers of Jesus should depart from iniquity. Then he says that in this great house are things good and bad. Then he says a man should purge himself to be a vessel of honor. That has nothing to do with others in the church. That is about us! What do you think? Amen! I would say that's a bulls-eye brother. Perishable and imperishable.....flesh and spirit. Exactly what I have been yammering about. Wood and clay are perishable, speaking to what is carnal, fleshly.........while silver and gold are imperishable alluding to the spiritual. If we purge ourselves of the former we can become vessels of honour. I appreciate that, but I was taking this to be telling us to purge iniquity from our temple, things not pleasing to God. I wasn't thinking about a carnal mind . Those who observe and keep the teachings in the Holy Bible are the spiritual ones. The disobedient are the carnal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 9:33:10 GMT -5
I said that , because I have seen that teaching long ago by crafity and deceptive men . They began accusing some of making an idol out of the bible . What a subtile crafity sneaky way to get people to back off trusting in the bible and to start heeding them . Our approach to the bible , should be identical to the true ones . Feast daily , Two of them wrote a very important thing concering the HOLY SCRITPURES . were they making an idol out of scrips . NOPE . The thing is , how can the dead receive life , LEST THE DEAD be made alive in CHRIST . The teaching ought not to be the ink in the bible is dead ashes , but rather MEN are the dead ashes , that need to be sprinkled by the blood of Christ and made alive so too that they can grasp the things that be of GOD . God , the words o GOD are not dead ashes , man is . BUT IN CHRIST we are quickened and can now receive the things that be of GOD . Amen . A-men and A-men. There are a lot of people who don't want us to place so much emphasis on the Bible who will accuse us of worshipping it like an idol. These are God's Words! When we seek to stand up for them, that is us standing up for thus saith the Lord. It is ludicrous to call that Bible worship. That is what false teachers do, because they believe we need to place more emphasis on what we feel the Spirit is saying to us than what the Spirit already revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures. That can lead to dangerous heretical doctrines. I did not accuse anyone here of worshiping the bible.....i am saying it is possible and that some certainly do worship a dead letter as if they have no living relationship with the Living Christ who alone can give LIFE to those words. Remember Jesus saying to the religious leaders how they studied and read the scriptures which testified ABOUT Him, but they wouldn't come to HIM Himself. I am someone who loves the word of God and even when the Lord opens the word to my understanding or ministers to me through His word I will even kiss the bible myself and raise it to heaven rejoicing and thanking the Lord. Go figure (or rather don't let's try to figure that out ourselves). Golly, so many accusations around here for simply reminding of things the bible says. Hmmm..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2020 9:35:26 GMT -5
Amen! I would say that's a bulls-eye brother. Perishable and imperishable.....flesh and spirit. Exactly what I have been yammering about. Wood and clay are perishable, speaking to what is carnal, fleshly.........while silver and gold are imperishable alluding to the spiritual. If we purge ourselves of the former we can become vessels of honour. I appreciate that, but I was taking this to be telling us to purge iniquity from our temple, things not pleasing to God. I wasn't thinking about a carnal mind . Those who observe and keep the teachings in the Holy Bible are the spiritual ones. The disobedient are the carnal.Except that a person is not spiritual yet if they are still trying to establish their own righteousness.
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777
Senior Member
Teacher
Posts: 1,189
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Post by 777 on Feb 5, 2020 9:44:33 GMT -5
I appreciate that, but I was taking this to be telling us to purge iniquity from our temple, things not pleasing to God. I wasn't thinking about a carnal mind . Those who observe and keep the teachings in the Holy Bible are the spiritual ones. The disobedient are the carnal. Except that a person is not spiritual yet if they are still trying to establish their own righteousness. The only ones doing that are those who reject the Lord and try to save themselves. Many who don't do that are falsely accused of it.
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Post by frienduff on Feb 5, 2020 13:27:58 GMT -5
I don't know what people here "think" I'm saying.....but all I'm doing is reminding of things that the scriptures say.....hello. So why should that come under attack and suspicion. Without the Holy Spirit we will not be able to understand those scriptures and rightly divide them, nor minister them in a right spirit. Why is that so hard to receive? Isn't it the truth? We don't want to just have a form of Godliness that denies the POWER (aka SPIRIT)....from such we are to turn away. And yes there are people who make an idol of the bible, that is a real kind of snare for some....even Jews parade their Torah scroll around and kiss it....I guess to them it's a tangible reminder of God. Wow we can have all the letters and words memorized inside out and backwards and be hunched over our bibles 8 hours a day and still be seeking to establish our own righteousness. But never mind I expect this post to be misunderstood as well. You all have a blessed day. Yes , but they KNOW NOT the TORAH , if they did THEY WOULD KNOW JESUS . yes many folks claim the bible as the word of GOD . YET look how they live , they don't know JESUS . they may profess HIM , yet deny HIM in works . These are not making an idol out of the bible , persay , they make an idol out of themselves and then claim it says thus or thus . TO a true lamb their is no such thing as making the bible and idol , ONLY those who DONT KNOW JESUS and thus don't know HOW to intrepet the bible . To a true lamb , as YOU DO KNOW , the bible is OUR BOOK and by what we test all things spoken said , taught or wrote AGAINST .
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Post by John on Feb 5, 2020 19:00:10 GMT -5
A-men and A-men. There are a lot of people who don't want us to place so much emphasis on the Bible who will accuse us of worshipping it like an idol. These are God's Words! When we seek to stand up for them, that is us standing up for thus saith the Lord. It is ludicrous to call that Bible worship. That is what false teachers do, because they believe we need to place more emphasis on what we feel the Spirit is saying to us than what the Spirit already revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures. That can lead to dangerous heretical doctrines. I did not accuse anyone here of worshiping the bible.....i am saying it is possible and that some certainly do worship a dead letter as if they have no living relationship with the Living Christ who alone can give LIFE to those words. Remember Jesus saying to the religious leaders how they studied and read the scriptures which testified ABOUT Him, but they wouldn't come to HIM Himself. I am someone who loves the word of God and even when the Lord opens the word to my understanding or ministers to me through His word I will even kiss the bible myself and raise it to heaven rejoicing and thanking the Lord. Go figure (or rather don't let's try to figure that out ourselves). Golly, so many accusations around here for simply reminding of things the bible says. Hmmm.. Hmmm. I can't think of a single instance where you were accused for "simply reminding of things the Bible says." I have heard you pervert the meaning of scriptures, ignore others, and promote the idea that the Spirit revealing things to an individual may have more weight than "dead letters."
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